bill@hpb.cis.pitt.edu (Bill Broadly) (05/11/91)
I used a Hp-720 for a few days with favorable impressions, and
will reply to any queries, impressions, or opionions.
But I have a few question which a local salesman wasn't to sure
about.
Is their any keyboards of a different layout available? (I
don't want a foreign keyboard just a different layout). I really don't
like the standard keyboard: No seperate arrow keys, strange placement of ESC,
caps lock etc.
The 700 x terminal has a great keyboard. Seperate arrow keys.
Big shift cntrl keys etc. Are the 700 xterm and the 720 keyboards
interchangable?
Is there an alternate color screen for the HP? The standard
color screen is nice (72 Hz), but is curved much more so than other
HP display (and others as well). I can't afford to get the graphics
upgrades just to get a flatter screen (mucho $).
I am afraid Hp had to cut cost somewhere and the keyboard, and
screen took the cuts.
I'd happily pay a reasonable fee for upgraded keyboard and/or
screen. Even the mouse is a little strange but usable.
P.S. Any truth to HP shipping HP-UX 8.05 with systems ordered today or
was that just vaporware at the demo 2 weeks ago.
--
Bill Broadley
Broadley@schneider3.lrdc.pitt.edu
"GISMO"rjn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Niland) (05/14/91)
re: > bill@hpb.cis.pitt.edu (Bill Broadly) writes... > Is their any keyboards of a different layout available? (I don't want a > foreign keyboard just a different layout). I really don't like the > standard keyboard: No seperate arrow keys, strange placement of ESC, caps > lock etc. There are two PC-101 keyboards that will "work", but are not officially supported (yet). I have one of each on the two Series 300 machines that I use, under HP-UX 7.0. I also just tried this keyboard on a 720... C2205A Localization kit, $100. Option ABA U.S.English Option ABD German This kit just appeared on the price list and is initially intended for a yet-to-be-released product, but was also designed with the 700 in mind. C2205A includes a "C1429A" keyboard which is in the PC-101 layout (mechanically identical to the C1405A keyboard used on the 700/X, 700/RX and HP Vectra) and has a native HP-HIL connector pair. The kit also includes a 46060B 3-button mouse, a power cord and some documents. The C1429A itself is not available separately (yet), nor as a purchaseable part (yet), but this is moot, because the C2205A local kit will sell in huge quantities, and is priced lower than the stand-alone keyboard. This is also true for the current A1099A kit (which contains the 46021A "ITF" keyboard that you don't like). Think of it as an inexpensive keyboard and free mouse :-) The C1429A identifies itself as a 46021A ITF keyboard, but software can make additional inquiries to determine that a PC-101 layout and LEDs are present. An overlay is provided for ITF/PC key mapping. ITF-specific key codes are mapped onto PC101-specific caps (e.g. Select onto End). Because the ITF keyboard contains more function keys than a PC, the ITF InsertLine, DeleteLine, ClearLine and ClearDisplay ITF keys are not mapped at all. Because the PC101 keyboard has two Ctrl keys, we assigned an unused HIL scancode to the right one. The right Ctrl key of the C1429A does not yet work in Series 300, 400 or 700 boot ROMs, the ITE, X-windows or Windex. The NumLock, CapsLock and ScrollLock LEDs are also not supported yet. X-window support of R-Ctrl and CapsLED is planned. Inoperative R-Ctrl and CapsLED have not been a problem for me so far. The SoftPC folks know about this keyboard, but I don't know what the status is of eliminating/reversing the ITF/PC keycode mapping to get proper PC keystroking in SoftPC. C1427A Option ABA PC-101 keyboard, MITF-5, U.S.English, plus... 98106A MITF-5 to HP-HIL adaptor, U.S.English only. The 98016A is a special created for our Telecom industry accounts, and both line items must be purchased separately. No prices are given because it is a factory special, and a custom quote would have to be given. Hint: the C2205A/C1429A is cheaper. The 98016A is a soap-bar size HIL module that makes the C1427A PC-101 keyboard from the 700/44 serial "PC terminal" look like a 46021A ITF keyboard. The C1427A (aka C1408A) keyboard has no LEDs. There are four unlabeled keycaps in those locations, and these were assigned the codes for the unimplemented Line/Screen keys above. Both Ctrl keys generate the same ITF Ctrl scancode. The mappings of other ITF keycodes are different than for the C2205A/C1429A. The mappings are also less intuitive, and were done hastily a couple of years ago ... we learn. > The 700 x terminal has a great keyboard. Seperate arrow keys. Big shift > cntrl keys etc. Are the 700 xterm and the 720 keyboards interchangable? That's the same C1405A keyboard used on Vectra. As mentioned above, the C1429A keyboard in the new C2205A kit is mechanically identical. > Is there an alternate color screen for the HP? The standard color screen > is nice (72 Hz), but is curved much more so than other HP display (and > others as well). I can't afford to get the graphics upgrades just to get > a flatter screen (mucho $). I am afraid Hp had to cut cost somewhere and > the keyboard, and screen took the cuts. We would like to offer a cylindrical-face Sony, but there are apparently some issues (other than price) that prevent us from doing so at the moment. > I'd happily pay a reasonable fee for upgraded keyboard and/or screen. > Even the mouse is a little strange but usable. If you get a 46094A HP-HIL to Honeywell Quadrature adaptor, you can interface most types of "bus" pointing devices to our systems. We even sell the LogiTech P7-3F mouse (as HP K1410). I'm using this combo on one of my systems. > P.S. Any truth to HP shipping HP-UX 8.05 with systems ordered today or > was that just vaporware at the demo 2 weeks ago. I have no info on that. Regards, Hewlett-Packard Bob Niland Internet: rjn@FC.HP.COM 3404 East Harmony Road UUCP: [hplabs|hpfcse]!hpfcrjn!rjn Ft Collins CO 80525-9599 This response does not represent the official position of, or statement by, the Hewlett-Packard Company. The above data is provided for informational purposes only. It is supplied without warranty of any kind. ITF - Integrated Terminal Family: The HP company-wide human interface standard of a decade ago. The 46021A keyboard is the last product to be made to this spec. We are migrating to industry standards.
hardy@golem.ps.uci.edu (Meinhard E. Mayer (Hardy)) (05/23/91)
I had the first occasion to try out a 720 today. Everything was as expected, but I am terribly disappointed that HP has not included Gnu-emacs with HP-UX 8.0 (there is still time to do it before you ship 8.05 if you listen to the public). The Huge Unofficial HP emacs available on the Interex tape (or from me10.lbl.edu) is one of the nicest and most complete versions available and works beautifully with HP monitors (with all the bells and whistles: mouse-highlighting, function keys, ange-ftp, calc, calendar, etc.). We just dumped it on our 370/345 and it is great! For anyone who has not used vi for two years being forced to use it, even for trivial files is like returning to the ice age. HP -- listen! Include an unsupported gnuemacs with your machines! Greetings, Hardy -------****------- Meinhard E. Mayer (Hardy); Department of Physics, University of California Irvine CA 92717; (714) 856 5543; hardy@golem.ps.uci.edu or MMAYER@UCI.BITNET
jason@hpcndjdz.CND.HP.COM (Jason Zions) (05/26/91)
> The Huge Unofficial HP emacs >available on the Interex tape (or from me10.lbl.edu) is one of >the nicest and most complete versions available and works beautifully >with HP monitors (with all the bells and whistles: mouse-highlighting, >function keys, ange-ftp, calc, calendar, etc.). We just dumped it on >our 370/345 and it is great! >For anyone who has not used vi for two years being forced to use it, >even for trivial files is like returning to the ice age. >HP -- listen! Include an unsupported gnuemacs with your machines! Why do you think HP contributed UHPGE (a.k.a. HUGE) to Interex? Our legal types are still uncomfortable with the idea of shipping GNU software on an HP system, supported or not. Also, many of systems we sell today are the pre-installed Instant Ignition sort, and there's just not space on the disk for UHPGE. By contributing UHPGE to Interex, we make it possible for those who want it to get it, keep the legal types happy, and save disk space for the many who don't want it. Although UHPGE is *completely* unsupported by HP in any way, shape or form, please feel free to post questions specifically about the HP aspects of it here; someone might answer. -- This is not an official statement of The Hewlett-Packard Company. No warranty is expressed or implied. The information included herein is not to be construed as a committment on HP's part. The devil made me do it. This won't save me from the lawyers' wrath, but it can't hurt. Jason Zions The Hewlett-Packard Company Colorado Networks Division 3404 E. Harmony Road Mail Stop 102 Ft. Collins, CO 80525 USA jason@cnd.hp.com (303) 229-3800