mh@roger.imsd.contel.com (Mike Hoegeman) (06/22/91)
In article <1474@theseas.ntua.gr> nfotis@ntua.gr (Nikolaos Fotis) writes: >I recently had some experience with a HP 9000/720 demo unit, *no manuals* >and I would like just to add my remarks (I hope that's not too late >for 8.05...): >(machine OS: HP-UX kentayros A.B8.01 A 9000/720 ) >pro: its FAST! and it doesn't heat up easily (we notice these things here > in Greece!) I have a demo unit sitting here also that i am porting some sun stuff to. So I`ll ad my two cents worth. Yes, It's pretty fast computationally, it's a bit slower doing nfs i/o. Note: I'm making a set of notes as I port stuff from the sun for my colleagues who will be doing some additional porting later on. It's not the most polished document in the world and evolves as I go along but if there is a demand for it I'll post it. It is a latex document that i can post as is or just the PostScript output of it if that is preferable. >cons (in no particular order): > a. Very bad keyboard, especially the escape key and a rather plastic touch. > NO DELETE key! (very bad) and very small control key. > proposal: make it a customer option. I would love to have something > reasonable like a Northgate keyboard. Yes. The keyboard sucks *big* time. two small keys the caps lock and the ctrl key are right next to each other to the left of 'a'. thankfully the control key is closest to the 'a' but i still hit caps lock by accident an awful lot. there is a delete key labeled delete char. but it's off in the sticks way to the right of the return key. the keys themselves seem kind cheap too. also there are no nubs on the home keys which i think is really lame. > b. I don't like (really!) the mechanical mouse. It'll need a piece of paper > at least in order to stop it from slipping. > proposal: give us optical mice with flexible mouse pads. I kinda like the mouse. It is certainly better than most mechanical mice. I like the nub that on the left mouse button. I'not sure i'd take it over a optical mouse though.. > c. The vi and more don't behave so well when I work with more than > 24x80 text (console, resizing xterms,etc. Neither eval resize > does the trick). I hope that the solution is just a manual away. Yes i hated this too. it does not matter if there is some way to do it in the manual though, it should just do it by default. it does not even seem to understand anything but your standard terminal size. if you bring up a terminal with 34 lines vi should use 43 lines. And no i do not want to make a bunch of bogus terminal definitions for every size terminal that I want. I will probably resort to porting elvis to it if I have it long enough. > c. From what I read in this newsgroup, I didn't liked the attitude of > stripping out all these BSD goodies, especially when the kernel and > the associated data structures are here (e.g. renice()). > proposal: make it more BSD 4.3-like where it doesn't collide with > SYSV, and add the networking code (ping,etc.) it does have ping, etc. mike hoegeman, mh@awds.imsd.contel.com
sherman@unx.sas.com (Chris Sherman) (06/22/91)
In <1991Jun21.191139.11313@wlbr.imsd.contel.com> mh@roger.imsd.contel.com (Mike Hoegeman) writes: >I have a demo unit sitting here also that i am porting some sun stuff >to. So I`ll ad my two cents worth. Yes, It's pretty fast >computationally, it's a bit slower doing nfs i/o. What machine is doing nfs quickly??? I haven't found one yet. >>cons (in no particular order): >> a. Very bad keyboard, especially the escape key and a rather plastic touch. >> NO DELETE key! (very bad) and very small control key. >> proposal: make it a customer option. I would love to have something >> reasonable like a Northgate keyboard. Me too!!! The RS/6000 keyboard is ok. Does anyone use the white keys to the right of the Return key??? >Yes. The keyboard sucks *big* time. two small keys the caps lock and >the ctrl key are right next to each other to the left of 'a'. >thankfully the control key is closest to the 'a' but i still hit caps >lock by accident an awful lot. there is a delete key labeled delete >char. but it's off in the sticks way to the right of the return key. >the keys themselves seem kind cheap too. also there are no nubs on the >home keys which i think is really lame. Here is a keyboard modification command to fix this (I use it, actually). It changes the break key to delete, the Caps to CNTL, and the BackSpace to Delete. (Use this in your .x11start or .xsession script). xmodmap - << MODMAP remove Lock = Caps_Lock add Control = Caps_Lock keysym Break = Escape keysym BackSpace = Delete MODMAP >> b. I don't like (really!) the mechanical mouse. It'll need a piece of paper >> at least in order to stop it from slipping. >> proposal: give us optical mice with flexible mouse pads. >I kinda like the mouse. It is certainly better than most mechanical >mice. I like the nub that on the left mouse button. I'not sure i'd >take it over a optical mouse though.. Optical mise should DIE!!! The mechanical mouse can be pushed around with little effort. You have to grab the optical mouse with both hands (one for the mouse, one for the pad). >> c. The vi and more don't behave so well when I work with more than >> 24x80 text (console, resizing xterms,etc. Neither eval resize >> does the trick). I hope that the solution is just a manual away. >Yes i hated this too. it does not matter if there is some way to do it >in the manual though, it should just do it by default. it does not even >seem to understand anything but your standard terminal size. if you >bring up a terminal with 34 lines vi should use 43 lines. And no i do >not want to make a bunch of bogus terminal definitions for every size >terminal that I want. I will probably resort to porting elvis to it if >I have it long enough. Ahhhh, BSD types. I can spot people like you on a mountain face 5 miles away while looking in the other direction. SYSV does not include the special resize signal which BSD uses to tell non-X applications that the window has resized. (This signal is SIGWINCH [signal: WINdow CHanged] in BSD land). To tell the environment that you have resized a window, do the following: if the system has 'resize', do a eval `resize` If not, do a (under csh, in this example) setenv LINES 24 setenv COLUMNS 80 Unfortunately, nothing you can do will get a running vi to resize in an xterm automatically. -- Chris Sherman .................... sherman@unx.sas.com | ,-----------------------------------------' / Q: How many IBM CPU's does it take to execute a job? | A: Four; three to hold it down, and one to rip its head off.
paul@eye.com (Paul B. Booth) (06/22/91)
In article <1991Jun21.191139.11313@wlbr.imsd.contel.com> mh@roger.imsd.contel.com (Mike Hoegeman) writes: > >> c. The vi and more don't behave so well when I work with more than >> 24x80 text (console, resizing xterms,etc. Neither eval resize >> does the trick). I hope that the solution is just a manual away. > >Yes i hated this too. it does not matter if there is some way to do it >in the manual though, it should just do it by default. it does not even >seem to understand anything but your standard terminal size. if you >bring up a terminal with 34 lines vi should use 43 lines. And no i do >not want to make a bunch of bogus terminal definitions for every size >terminal that I want. I will probably resort to porting elvis to it if >I have it long enough. Most X implementations don't do this kind of hand holding. The following lines in ~/.profile will do what you want under plain X11. Should work for vue too, if you have ~/.vueprofile call ~/.profile. # Set up the terminal case "${TERM}" in hpterm) #This is an X11 window; get its size stty hupcl erase "^H" kill "^U" intr "^C" eof "^D" susp "^Z" dsusp "^Y" eval `/usr/bin/X11/resize -u` ;; xterm) #This is an X11 window; get its size stty hupcl erase "^H" kill "^U" intr "^C" eof "^D" susp "^Z" dsusp "^Y" eval `/usr/bin/X11/resize -u` ;; esac -- Paul B. Booth (paul@eye.com) (...!hplabs!hpfcla!eye!paul) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3D/EYE, Inc., 2359 N. Triphammer Rd., Ithaca, NY 14850 voice: (607)257-1381 fax: (607)257-7335
jbc@hpcupt3.cup.hp.com (Jeff Caldwell) (06/23/91)
>if you >bring up a terminal with 34 lines vi should use 43 lines. I would think it would be more preferable if vi used 34 lines in this situation :-) -Jeff Caldwell
mh@roger.imsd.contel.com (Mike Hoegeman) (06/25/91)
In article <sherman.677580838@foster> sherman@unx.sas.com (Chris Sherman) writes: > >>Yes i hated this too. it does not matter if there is some way to do it >>in the manual though, it should just do it by default. it does not even >>seem to understand anything but your standard terminal size. if you >>bring up a terminal with 34 lines vi should use 43 lines. And no i do >>not want to make a bunch of bogus terminal definitions for every size >>terminal that I want. I will probably resort to porting elvis to it if >>I have it long enough. > >Ahhhh, BSD types. I can spot people like you on a mountain face 5 miles >away while looking in the other direction. SYSV does not include the >special resize signal which BSD uses to tell non-X applications that the >window has resized. (This signal is SIGWINCH [signal: WINdow CHanged] in >BSD land). > >To tell the environment that you have resized a window, do the following: >if the system has 'resize', do a > eval `resize` >If not, do a (under csh, in this example) > setenv LINES 24 > setenv COLUMNS 80 But, but... Is'nt the HP-UX kernel core basically a BSD one ?? Could'nt they have just left SIGWINCH in ??
bruce@tcom.stc.co.uk (Bruce Munro) (06/26/91)
In article <1991Jun21.191139.11313@wlbr.imsd.contel.com> mh@roger.imsd.contel.com (Mike Hoegeman) writes: >In article <1474@theseas.ntua.gr> nfotis@ntua.gr (Nikolaos Fotis) writes: > >>cons (in no particular order): >> a. Very bad keyboard, especially the escape key and a rather plastic touch. >> NO DELETE key! (very bad) and very small control key. >> proposal: make it a customer option. I would love to have something >> reasonable like a Northgate keyboard. > >Yes. The keyboard sucks *big* time. two small keys the caps lock and >the ctrl key are right next to each other to the left of 'a'. >thankfully the control key is closest to the 'a' but i still hit caps >lock by accident an awful lot. there is a delete key labeled delete >char. but it's off in the sticks way to the right of the return key. >the keys themselves seem kind cheap too. also there are no nubs on the >home keys which i think is really lame. Sounds just like the keyboard on the 9000/300 I've got here. Same delete problem, this one has two keys, one is <Shift><Esc> for Gods sake! And the other is, as Mike says, off to the right hand side. What I want to know is does the 700 keyboard still have the '/' key right up the top of the keyboard, and to add insult to injury you have to shift to obtain it. On a Unix workstation this is nothing short of absurd! I'd really love to the hear the justification for this bit of design. -- Bruce Munro. <bruce@tcom.stc.co.uk> || ...!mcsun!ukc!stc!bruce BNR Europe Ltd, Oakleigh Rd South, London N11 1HB. Phone : +44 81 945 2174 or +44 81 945 4000 x2174 "There are no strangers, only friends we don't recognise" - Hank Wangford
shankar@hpcupt3.cup.hp.com (Shankar Unni) (06/27/91)
In comp.sys.hp, bruce@tcom.stc.co.uk (Bruce Munro) writes: > What I want to know is does the 700 keyboard still have the '/' key right > up the top of the keyboard, and to add insult to injury you have to shift > to obtain it. On a Unix workstation this is nothing short of absurd! I'd > really love to the hear the justification for this bit of design. Don't order the "UK Keyboard" option with the HP machines. If all you need is to type in the "pound sterling" sign, there are other ways to get it.. It's the UK keyboard that has various abominations like the upshifted "/" and the "-" in the bottom right-hand corner.. ----- Shankar Unni E-Mail: HP India Software Operation, Bangalore Internet: shankar@india.hp.com Phone : +91-812-261254 x417 UUCP: ...!hplabs!hpda!shankar
steve-t@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Steve Taylor) (06/28/91)
/comp.sys.hp/ bruce@tcom.stc.co.uk (Bruce Munro) / | What I want to know is does the 700 keyboard still have the '/' key right | up the top of the keyboard, and to add insult to injury you have to shift | to obtain it. On a Unix workstation this is nothing short of absurd! I'd | really love to the hear the justification for this bit of design. You have a UK keyboard, I'll bet. That one has the '/' key next to the Backspace key shifted from single-quote. The keyboard for Holland has it one key right from there, unshifted. The keyboards for Germany, Switzerland, Spain, Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark have it at shift-7. Canadian keyboards have it at shift-3. All other American (US, Central & South) keyboards have it above the right <Extend char> key. Keyboards for Italy, France, and Belgium have it one key left from that position shifted from ':'. This keyboard was designed in '83, when HP-UX was not a big factor in HP's computer sales. It had strong input from data entry terminals, for example. In general, the layout of the typing keys is supposed to follow the most popular/standard typewriter layout for the given country. Regards, Steve taylor NOT A STATEMENT, OFFICIAL OR OTHERWISE, OF THE HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY.
franks@hpuamsa.neth.hp.com (Frank Slootweg CRC) (06/28/91)
Bruce Munro writes : > Sounds just like the keyboard on the 9000/300 I've got here. Same delete > problem, this one has two keys, one is <Shift><Esc> for Gods sake! And > the other is, as Mike says, off to the right hand side. Mike Hoegeman referred to the "Delete char" key. You are apparently referring to the "DEL" key (<Shift><ESC>). Even your keyboard has both :-) > What I want to know is does the 700 keyboard still have the '/' key right > up the top of the keyboard, and to add insult to injury you have to shift > to obtain it. On a Unix workstation this is nothing short of absurd! I'd > really love to the hear the justification for this bit of design. The justification is probably that you ordered a local UK keyboard. On the American USASCII keyboard the "/" is unshifted and above the "Extend char" key (i.e. at a similar location as on a PC keyboard). Frank "Just the facts, ma'm." Slootweg, HP, Dutch CRC.
franks@hpuamsa.neth.hp.com (Frank Slootweg CRC) (06/28/91)
Oops, please ignore my first remark (about Delete char versus DEL). Apparently I can't read. The second remark/fact still stands.