ugbowen@sunybcs.UUCP (01/04/87)
I got an M-1 mouse for Christmas. It's put out by Contriver Tech, Inc.
I assume it's totally compatible with the 1350 mouse from Commodore so
I thought I might get some help from the CBM engineers. The mouse can
act as a joystick in any situation where the joystick can be used. I
always thought the mouse to be a device that would give two speed: one
in the x direction and one in the y. From this a velocity vector could
be calculated by the system. If I am right, how is this signal converted
by the joystick port to return the simple four bit direction scheme? I
know that the mouse can be used as a velocity vector since one may go
in any direction in the GEOS package. This is all very confusing and I
can't find anything at all about it. Can someone take the time to explain
some of this? Thanks...
Devon Bowen (KA2NRC)
University of Buffalo
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********************************************************wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (01/05/87)
Hi Devon, et al; The 1350 mouse for the C64/C128 is the same as the mouse that plugs into the Amiga. It has two IR LEDs that sine though a chopper wheel onto 4 photo transistors (two per axis). The transistors are set up in an arragnement such that as one moves the mouse, they generate sqare waves that are in quadrature phase relationship. That is to say that as one moves the mouse forward, one transistor's squarewave will lead the other by 90 degress. Reversing the mouse direction will cause the phase to switch to lagging by 90 degress. The using one transistor output as a trigger makes it possible to determine which direction the mouse is moving depending on whether the other transistor's output is high or low at the time of the trigger. The number of triggers per second is, of course, directly proportional to the speed the mouse is moving. Now, for the neat part. Since the mouse has four digital outputs, these go to the same four pins as the joystick contacts. It is possible to simply plug in the mouse and have it sort of work like a joystick. One one rolls the mouse, it is like repeatedly bumping the joystick lever. As you might guess, this doesn't work very well. It is possible for software to look at what is happening and figure out what sort of input device is there by the type of pulses coming in, but it is really easier to just have the user indicate whether the mouse or joystick is in use. The new Commodore mouse is model 1351. This one is especially for the C64/128 and comes with a GEOS update disk (so wait before you download all that stuff from Quantum Link). Reportedly the 1351 has some electronic goodies inside or something that makes it quite different. My parents just got a 1351 for their C64 yesterday and I haven't gotten a chance to go over to their place and disect it yet. --Bill Bill Mayhew Division of Basic Medical Sciences Northeastern Ohio Universities' College of Medicine Rootstown, OH 44227 USA phone: 216-325-2511 (wtm@neoucom.UUCP ...!cbatt!neoucom!wtm)
grr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (01/06/87)
In article <352@neoucom.UUCP> wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) writes: > >Hi Devon, et al; > > The 1350 mouse for the C64/C128 is the same as the mouse >that plugs into the Amiga. ** THIS IS NOT CORRECT ** > It has two IR LEDs that sine though a >chopper wheel onto 4 photo transistors (two per axis). The >transistors are set up in an arragnement such that as one moves the >mouse, they generate sqare waves... * TRUE IN THEORY * Anyway, the 1350 contains a clever 4-bit process that translates the quatrature signals into joystick pulses. This provides good software transparency. The new mouse, the 1351, contains an even more clever gate array that provides the same joystick emulator *AND* analog joystick game paddle emulation. This works much better, as long as the software is prepared to play along... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (01/09/87)
Hi, It seems that I might have goofed on my description of the 1350 mouse. I was under the impression that it sent quadrature phase pulses right to the db9 connector. According to the technical person at the local dealer, it can be interchanged with the Amiga mouse. Subsequently, some of the net people tell me that there is a 4 bit microprocessor in the mouse that converts the chopper wheel output quadrature signal into an emulation of pushing the buttons on the joystick. I guess I'll have to check with an oscilloscope to be sure. One thing I do know is that the 1351 mouse works very well with Geos, and is worth the extra expense to get the Geos update disk. Bill