doug@edge.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (12/10/87)
It's Christmas time; time to get myself a present for having been such a
good boy :-)
I'm looking for reviews/comments for some C-64 games; anyone able to help?
Any of the various helicopter simulations:
Gunship (MicroProse)
Infiltrator (MindScape) -- looks like a graphics adventure to me
Infiltrator II (MindScape) -- ditto, of course
Super Huey II (Cosmi)
<I'm sure there are others, they just don't come to mind right now>
I've got Super Huey (Cosmi), and it's a Grade A turkey.
I've seen ThunderChopper, and it has the same very slow response that
Flight Simulator II does (for good reason, it says right on the box
that the graphics software is licensed from SubLogic).
Also:
Chuck Yeager's Advanced Flight Trainer (Electronic Arts) -- Is this any
more fun than Flight Simulator II (which I find dreadfully boring)?
EOS (Electronic Arts) -- This one looks pretty interesting. I'd especially
like to know if it has any "real-time" sections where you have to be
quick with a joystick, or do you get plenty of time to plan each move?
And has anyone tried any of the super-cheapie games? You know, the ones
that cost like $7.99 for 2 or 3 games in one package. Any reason not to
believe that you don't get what you don't pay for in these?
E-mail is fine. Posting messages is fine. Whatever you like...
--
Doug Pardee -- Edge Computer Corp., Scottsdale, AZ -- uunet!ism780c!edge!doug,
{ames,hplabs,sun,amdahl,ihnp4,allegra}!oliveb!edge!doug, mot!edge!dougdwl10@amdahl.amdahl.com (Dave Lowrey) (12/11/87)
Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Keywords: In article <1001@edge.UUCP> doug@edge.UUCP (Doug Pardee) writes: > . > . > . > >And has anyone tried any of the super-cheapie games? You know, the ones >that cost like $7.99 for 2 or 3 games in one package. Any reason not to >believe that you don't get what you don't pay for in these? > Brief review of several games in the under $10.00 range.......... These games are all distributed by MASTERTRONIC, and are (I believe) British in origin. The Last V8 Scenerio: You are one of the few survivors of the last Nuclear Holocost. You and your friends have rigged up a car (remember fossill fuels?), and use it to explore the remains of the country side. The only problem is that there are many unexploded warheads around, which must be avoided. As the game opens, your friends at home base have warned you of an impending explosion. You must get your car inside the base before it expoldes. Once inside, you must find your radiation-shielded base before you die of exposure. Playing: The game shows an overhead view of your car, and the surrounding countryside. You use the joystick to speed up, slow down, and turn the car. The joystick takes a bit of time to get the hang of it, but once you do, it is easy to controll. There is some good music, and voice synthisys (with a british accent!). RATING: On a scale of one to 10 (10 highest) I would rate this a 7. Well worth the $10.00 Bounder Scenerio: You control a bouncing tennis ball. You must guide your ball over a scrolling playfield that is several hundred feet above the ground. You must avoid obsticles, get extra points, and avoid holes in the playfield. If you survive a level, you get a chance at extra points. Playing: This is a very good game! I maxed out at about level 7, due to an inbread lack of hand-eye coordination. :-) Rating: A 9 (at least). Very highly recomended. The Master of Magic Scenerio: This is a visual adventure type game, where you must explore an underground cave, and locate the Amulet of Yendor (Sound familiar?). The screen shows only 'line of site' views of the area the player is in at the time. It also shows any 'treasures' or 'monsters'. You must fight the monsters, and solve the puzzle to reach the Amulet. Playing: All action is done with a joystick. You use the stick to select menu items that tell the game what you want to do. The graphics aren't the greatest, and take a bit of getting used to, but they are adaquate. I was really geting into the game on a problem solving level. It ended sooner than I wanted, but for $5.00 I guess I can't complain. Rating: A 7. Spooks: Scenerio: You must explore a Haunted mansion and excorsize the ghostly inhabitants by collecting the pieces of a music box. Playing: This is a maze game. You must collect objects, and solve severla simple problems. Rating: Maybe a 5. Kids would probably like it better than I did. ---------------------------- There are alot of Decent games for under $10.00. Check them out! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Familiarity breeds attempt" Dave Lowrey Amdahl Corp. Houston, Texas (713)-850-8828 ...!{ihnp4,cbosgd,hplabs,oliveb}!amdahl!dwl10 [ The opinions expressed <may> be those of the author and not necessarily those of his most eminent employer. ]
jon@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Jon George Seidl) (12/11/87)
In article <1001@edge.UUCP> doug@edge.UUCP (Doug Pardee) writes: > >I'm looking for reviews/comments for some C-64 games; anyone able to help? > Okay, I've got some reviews/comments on some cheapy C-64 games I picked up: 1) The Slugger - I can't believe I picked this game up for $8.99 at a Kohl's Department store! It has some really excellent graphics. The joystick throwing of the baseball takes some time to learn, but you pick up on it eventually. Two modes of play: computer/player, player/ player. I like the cheerleaders that appear between occasional innings and one fan in the bleachers occasionally (have to watch for this one... very occasionally) stands up and says something. Pretty neat. Out of 10: an 8. By Mastertronic. 2) Rambo: First Blood Part II - Another winner. I liked the arcade game quite a bit. Picked up this little baby for $6.99 (again at Kohl's). Plays exactly (okay, almost exactly...the joystick isn't attached at an angle below the screen {get some tape and a board, do it yourself}) like the arcade game. Great graphics. Good music (if you can stand listening to it) or turn off the music and listen to the noise of your rocket launcher, M-60 (probably...knowing Rambo), helicopter, etc. Three phases of play and more than one level (how many? Don't know, haven't got past the first yet). Out of 10: a 9. By Thunder Mountain Software. Presented by Angelsoft. Good, cheap deals for Christmas. Have a good one! Jon --------------- \_/ \/\/ - /\/\ilwaukee BRING BACK MAX, PLEASE!!!! arpanet: jon@csd4.milw.wisc.edu bitnet: jon%csd4.milw.wisc.edu@wiscmac3.bitnet (vms3.macc.wisc.edu) UUCP: ihnp4!uwmcsd1!csd4!jon
lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Christopher Lishka) (12/13/87)
shorter ones at end). Summary: Expires: References: <1001@edge.UUCP> Sender: Reply-To: lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Christopher Lishka) Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene, Madison Keywords: In article <1001@edge.UUCP> doug@edge.UUCP (Doug Pardee) writes: >It's Christmas time; time to get myself a present for having been such a >good boy :-) Yeah! That's the spirit! ;-) >I'm looking for reviews/comments for some C-64 games; anyone able to help? > >Any of the various helicopter simulations: > Gunship (MicroProse) I was pleasantly surprised by this one. I read a good review (make that a GREAT review) of this game, so I immediately went out and bought it. I have found it to be a lot of fun, in the same way that I like playing Elite. Graphics: The graphics routines (as mentioned in the ads) are liscensed from Sublogic, so you get the same, slow feel to the real-time 3-d world that the flight simulator has (although these might be a smidgeon faster). The graphics are also not as complex as the Flight Simulator, although I believe they are all hidden surface, solid frame objects. They are good enough to make the simulation seem somewhat realistic. The Helicopter: The helicopter itself is one mean machine! There are four different types of strategic weapons (air-to-air missiles, guns, dumb missiles, and air-to-ground heat-sensitive, I believe) and they all have authentic names and what seems to be acurate descriptions, although I am not a weapons fanatic so I may be wrong. They do the job well ;-). There are also flares and decoys, a nice radar which presents different magnifications of the current target in the computer targeting system (the objects in the radar display look *exactly* like the ones on the ground when you get close... a nice touch!), an automatic mapping facility (handy, but not authentic), screens indicating damage and supplies, and on and on. To me the machine seems fairly realistic, but I have never flown in a helicopter (although I now wish I could fly the real thing!) so take my opinion for what it is worth. The Play: There are several different scenarios, with different skill levels and different types of missions (i.e. regular duty, volunteer mission, volunteer hazardous assignment). The difficulty ranges from easy (practice flying on a U.S. training course with dummy bullets) to downright impossible (attacking the U.S.S.R.!). Various points and military medals are awarded to you based on how well you did in many aspects of the mission. Personally, I haven't progressed past medium level assignments because they can be *really* tough (I am still stuck running missions in Viet Nam). As you choose harder missions, the enemy's weaponry becomes much more advanced, and on really high levels you are fighting very sophisticated tanks and helicopters that have the same capability as your craft. It gets *REAL*HARD*! Also, this is not a game that one can just sit down to and play a few minutes of. Like Elite, one needs at least half-an-hour to complete even the most simple missions...much of this time is spent flying to and from your target area. Also, each mission is recorded, so if you mess up, it goes down on your record (i.e. do not play foolishly with a pilot who you are trying to do well with overall). It is also very easy to get killed in this game if you are not paying much attention or you don't know the ropes, especially on higher levles. If you are good, however, this depth of play provides much more challenge than most games. Instructions: The manual is very well done. It has two training sessions, fairly complete descriptions of the controls, sections on advanced techniques, battle strategy, flying styles, etc. There is also a description ("briefings") on all the different missions. Microprose really put out a good manual for this game. Bad Points: The response is somewhat slow. In the manual they provide a small disclaimer by saying something to the effect of "a real helicopter does not respond quickly, so you should move, wait to see the effects, and then correct your action." This may be true, but the controls are still slow, and in a way such that it usually takes about 1/4-1/3 of a second for the game to read your input. You get used to this after a while, but it can be annoying at first. THIS GAME IS HEAVILY COPY-PROTECTED!!!!!! In the time honored Microprose tradition, they have three (yes, three!) different forms of this annoying stuff. The first is one of those new-fangled disk copy-protection measures that makes it impossible to back the disk up with on older copier. The game also writes all the pilot statistics to disk, so there is a good chance of the disk be trashed, although it hasn't happened to me *yet*. Microprose offers replacement disks for a fee if this should happen. Also, knowing the problems that their game "Silent Service" has had on the Amiga, I would be very cautious about buying this game if you don't like disk-copy protection. But that is only the first form. The second is a "look-up-the-picture-in-the-manual" type where you must identify a picture of some military equipment with its name, the information of which is in the manual. Not too hard, but it means you will need the manual close by. The third form is a keyword scheme that you need *for*each*mission* (arrgh!). Just before takeoff, you are given a keyword and you must look up the password and remember it. Just before you land at a base, you are requested for this mission's password; if you don't type it in correctly, your own forces will shoot you down (now THAT'S loyalty!). This has never happened to me, but then I have never been foolish enough to trash an hour's worth of flying by typing in the wrong password. Overall Impressions: I like this game a lot, as much as I have enjoyed many hours spent playing Elite. The game play is good, and the simulation is realistic enough to keep me on the edge of my seat as I fly between missile launchers, tanks, infantry, and enemy bases. There is also an awful lot of depth so that this game will not get boring too quickly. Currently, if I have the time to play (free time, what is free time?), this is the game I usually pick up. I can recommend highly on this basis alone. However, the copy-protection is a real drag. If you are queasy about this issue, then don't buy this software. Microprose really blew it on this one by putting so much protection in it that it becomes a real pain. I cannot recommend the game to people who do not enjoy copy-protection. Finally, based on Microprose games I have played in the past, this one seems to be a cut above the rest, up there with Silent Service. Compared to some of the earlier ones (F15, Solo Flight, various really bad flight simulators of theirs), they have managed to put out a first-rate game this time. I only wish I could recommend this game more, but the copy-protection keeps me from doing that. > Super Huey II (Cosmi) (> I've got Super Huey (Cosmi), and it's a Grade A turkey.) Guess what Doug...Super Huey II is also a Grade A turkey. It is bad bad bad bad. The instructions are bad, the graphics are bad, and the game play is worse. I have never come close to completing a mission. I wouldn't know how to anyways. Even worse is that the Amiga version is hard to distinguish from the c64 version...the graphics are barely imnproved at all. Lousy programming, if you ask me. DO NOT BUY THIS GAME! > I've seen ThunderChopper, and it has the same very slow response that > Flight Simulator II does (for good reason, it says right on the box > that the graphics software is licensed from SubLogic). As mentioned in the review above, Gunship has these same slow-but-realistic graphics. I wish someone would do graphics for a game like this in the same speed as Elite! >And has anyone tried any of the super-cheapie games? You know, the ones >that cost like $7.99 for 2 or 3 games in one package. Any reason not to >believe that you don't get what you don't pay for in these? The Last V8 (Mastertronics): This is an interesting game. You own the last V8 after a nuclear holocaust and you must try and reach your base underground before a bomb hits the surface. Once underground, you must avoid pockets of radiation that will kill your shield. Simple and straightforward. That is all the game is, and it doesn't pretend to be anything else. The graphics are impressive. It is hard to believe that the overhead view of the car and scenery is being produced on the c64. The game play is fairly quick, and you need good reflexes to handle the controls (which are a bit awkward at first). Also, there is only one scenario; i.e. no depth to this game. You have one mission and you must do it or die. I still haven't completed it. Not a bad game for $10.00 . Elektraglide (Mastertronic): Unfortunately, the pictures of this game look better than it actually plays. You are driving a futuristic motorcycle, and your perspective is a 3d view down the highway ala Pole Position (although you can't see your vehicle). The graphics are fairly fast and impressive, but there isn't all that much to do. Just race against the clock. Gets to be fairly boring after a while. Spend your $10.00 on a different game. Hunter Patrol/Ad Infinitum (Mastertronic): Hunter Patrol is a dog. It is too easy, too slow, and unintersting. That's all. The real prize in this package is Ad Infinitum. This is a game on the order of Threshold, where you at the bottom of the screen shoot the endless waves of aliens flying patterns at the top of the screen. The graphics aren't too bad, and they are all different, so it really gets amazing when you are on the higher levels (there are 256 of them) and each wave has a different alien! And the entire game fits into a c64! The game play is a lot of fun if you like the shoot-em up variety. It gets very difficult, and I have only cleared a fraction of the boards with the normal amount of ships. However, if you get frustrated quickly (like me) and you want to see the higher levels, there is an option to continue the next game where you left off, and using this you can get to the last level. Easy, huh? I have never gotten that far...the boards get too hard. Also, the boards all have different patterns for the aliens' flying styles, so recognizing all of them is very difficult. My brother did make it to the last level using this feature, but it took him four hours (!)...so I would say there is a lot of play in this game. Buy this package for "Ad Infinitum"...it is well worth the $10.00. Power (Avantage): Nice graphics, but the game play leaves a lot to be desired. You must progress through seven or eight screens fighting aliens along the way, but the problem is that only one or two aliens attack you at once. Boring. Not worth the $10.00 (spend it on a Mastertronic game instead). >-- >Doug Pardee -- Edge Computer Corp., Scottsdale, AZ -- uunet!ism780c!edge!doug, >{ames,hplabs,sun,amdahl,ihnp4,allegra}!oliveb!edge!doug, mot!edge!doug Th-th-th-that's all, folks! -Chris -- Chris Lishka /lishka@uwslh.uucp Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene <-lishka%uwslh.uucp@rsch.wisc.edu "What, me, serious? Get real!" \{seismo, harvard,topaz,...}!uwvax!uwslh!lishka
seven@nuchat.UUCP (David Paulsen) (12/15/87)
>doug@edge.UUCP (Doug Pardee) asks: > >I'm looking for reviews/comments for some C-64 games; anyone able to help? > >Any of the various helicopter simulations: > Gunship (MicroProse) -by- MicroProse Simulation Software 120 Lakefront Drive Hunt Valley, MD 21030 (301) 771-1151 Yes! Yes! Get this one! I picked it up almost a year ago, and STILL haven't gotten tired of playing it. It's a magnatude faster than the Sublogic titles I've seen, and is a total bitch to play on the higher levels. There's a whole slew of missions to fly, with four difficulty levels on each... plus you can toggle such factors as real vs. easy flight characteristics, static or varying weather, safe or dangerous landings. All these combine to make _Gunship_ a number of different games in one. GRAPHICS There's real terrain to look at (and fly into) including hills, rivers, roads and buildings, displayed in clean-looking 3D line-graphics. (No solid shapes.) Firing missiles or 30mm rounds yields an impressive display. The missiles all look different, and are easy to tell apart. Fire Sidewinder #1 and it streaks off your starboard wing. Fire your second, and it launches from the port wing! Clearly somebody was awake at MicroProse when they wrote this... The sound of your rotors change as you fly over a hill or thru a valley, enhancing the sense of realism. If you shoot at non-military targets (like civillian buildings or huts) you get reprimanded over the radio; if you blast away at a friendly M1 tank, your chances at promotion are lessened considerably. :-) FLIGHT CHARACTERISTICS The avionics are impressive. The joystick controls the cyclic, while the function keys control the collective: F1=UP FAST, F3=UP SLOW, F5=DOWN SLOW, F7=DOWN FAST. This works well. To get up in the air, you start your engines, engage the rotor clutch (whup, whup, whup), run the collective up a bunch by tapping F1 a few times, and presto -- you're hovering. Under 50 feet of altitude and the ground-effects from the prop wash make it hard to hold steady. Push the stick forward a little, the nose drops and the rotors bite, pushing you forwards and up. Pulling back on the stick levels you out again, and if you don't move your collective down (via F5 or F7) you'll shoot up in the air! Pull back HARD, the nose'll come up, and the ship will drift backwards. Under about 50 knots, you can slew sideways or tap the tail-rotor controls to sit'n'spin... like a real copter, this one behaves differently at different altitudes and speeds. In case of engine failure, you can even autorotate down to a safe landing -- IF you remember to unclutch your main rotor from the dead engines! If you don't care to learn how to fly a helicopter, you can switch on the "easy" flight mode, which makes the AH-64 respond more like an arcade game airplane. You can't do real fancy maneuvers, but then again it's real hard to crash too. Turn on the "all landings are perfect" mode and you almost literally can't lose. WEAPONS SYSTEMS There are four main weapons systems: the 30mm chain-gun, 2.75" FFAR (folding fin air rocket) pods, AGM-114A Hellfire smart anti-tank missiles, and AIM-9L Sidewinders. In addition there's chaff and flak launchers, plus electronic jamming systems. Targeting for all the weapons (except the FFARs) is thru the TADS targeting system. TADS is an acronym which stands for Totally Accurate Destruction Service (no, actually it means Target Acquisition & Designation System. ...just foolin') and provides a targeting pipper on your heads-up display. TADS is almost _always_ busily targeting something, whether it's a pack of crazed Iranians or your own base is up to you to decide. All you have to do is pull the trigger. There's an automated, self-aiming video camera with zoom lens always synced in with what TADS is looking at, so you can usually tell what you're gonna shoot at. If your avionics bay takes a hit, TADS might quit working, or worse, might just start giving spurrious readings on range and direction to your weapons. Not fun. The Folding Fin Air Rockets are really fun, being the only non-TADS targeted system there is. You just line up the crosshair, and pull the trigger to release as many rockets as you like... there's no limit to how many you can have in the air at once! They're "stupid" weapons, which means they're not capable of being spoofed by the enemy's ECM. They're used mainly to suppress "soft" targets, like infantry, and make impressive booming noises upon impact. The Hellfires are laser-guided antitank missiles. They come in pods of four. All you have to do is make sure TADS is awake, pull the trigger, and keep facing in the approximate direction of your target so that your laser illuminates it okay... the missile homes in on whatever the laser lights up. This is the only weapon you can "call back" if you accidently fire it at a friendly target; move the laser and the missile follows, hopefully someplace AWAY from that M1 you targeted by mistake... The Sidewinders are exclusively for air targets like the Soviet Hind helicopters that follow you around. You can only fit two Sidewinders on your chopper, but one per enemy is usually enough... they're deadly. If you're foolish enough to let that Hind get within gun-range, you're probably dead. When you fire any of your weapons, recoil makes the nose of your chopper jump up. After playing the game for awhile, you develop a reflex to push forward on the stick before launching anything... I can't help but wonder if real AH-64 pilots don't develop this same reflex? COPY-PROTECTION/PACKAGING This simulation comes with an excellent 84-page manual, complete with diagrams and hints. There are sections on avionics, so you can understand the how and the why of things -- not just that it is so. The manual is part of the copy protection. Not only is the game impossible to learn without documentation, but there are pictures of enemy hardware in the back that you MUST have to get past the game's initial boot-up screen. Upon loading, _Gunship_ displays one of about a dozen different tanks/apcs/hellicopters it knows, and you must correctly match up the picture in the back of the book and type in the name! This sounds awful, but it isn't really... you see it once per session, and not again till you boot up your game again. Besides, the pictures are nice to look at, and you'll actually meet some of these baddies once you start playing... There's a blindingly fast quick-loader employed to boot _Gunship_, and I'm happy to report that it seems to work equally well on 1541 clones. (I use an Emerald Excellerator+Plus 1541 clone, have no problems with it.) The disk itself is double-sided, and incredibly difficult to copy. As far as I'm concerned it's impossible, but I know better than to go around saying things like that... :-) No commercial copier I have will touch it: Fast Hack'Em, Disector, Mr.Nibble, Shadow, etc. but that's OK; the disk has help up so far. There's a handy keyboard overlay, with break-away function keys so you can fit it on a C128 keyboard as well as the old 64's... nice touch! I use a bit of tape to hold it in place during my frenzied sessions. An odd bit of _Gunship_ trivia: the manual lists a designer's credit for music, but the game is tune-less as far as I can tell. I've never heard MY copy play music. SUMMARY All in all, an excellent investment of $26.95, the price being charged in Seattle, Washington about 11 months ago. I would definitely buy it over again. Perhaps I will anyway -- how long does a floppy disk last, anyway? :-) Disclaimer: I don't work for MicroProse, but I wish I did! -- David Paulsen ...uunet.UU.NET!nuchat!seven "It had a maw that could swallow a DOZEN starships!" --Commodore Matt Decker, chewing on the scenery again
doug@edge.UUCP (Doug Pardee) (12/22/87)
I asked for reviews/comments on helicopter simulations, and you guys all recommended I get Gunship, so I did. It is indeed an excellent game. It lives up to my expectations (and is well worth the $24 I paid for it), but it's not *quite* as perfect as I'd heard :-) Here are my initial impressions. This being Christmas-time and all, I'm going to play Grinch and concentrate on what appear to be flaws. >There's real terrain to look at (and fly into) including hills, rivers, roads >and buildings, displayed in clean-looking 3D line-graphics. (No solid shapes.) I think that the hills are the big advancement compared to previous C64 "flat earth" flight simulators. They do stick up, and they do block your vision. (And more usefully, the enemy's ability to see you). Although the hills appear at first to be line-graphics (they're the same color as the ground), when they stick up above the horizon they can be seen to be fully colored in. Also the other objects which are obviously line-graphics don't block your vision (they seem transparent). The graphics aren't nearly as slow as Flight Simulator II, but on the other hand they're not "so quick you don't notice them updating". I would say that they're right on the edge of the "acceptable" range for a game which requires this much hand/eye coordination. What is more disturbing is that it appears that the joystick is only read once during each update, which means that the speed at which the chopper reacts varies depending on how fast the image can be updated. Overall, the graphics speed is not perfect, or even great, but I still would rate it as acceptable. There are a couple of quirks of the simulation that I can't believe that the real chopper pilots put up with. One is that every time the automatic targetting system loses track of a target, it shuts down. You have to turn it back on again when that target (or another one) is trackable. When you're sneaking up on an Anti-Aircraft position at low altitude, it's really a pain to have to keep punching the targeting back on every time it loses the target for an instant. Another is that the Inertial Navigation System does not provide a readout of the distance to the destination. This can be gotten around by looking at the map and guesstimating by eyeball, but I think it's a technical oversight. >This simulation comes with an excellent 84-page manual, complete with diagrams >and hints. There are sections on avionics, so you can understand the how and >the why of things -- not just that it is so. Ah, the manual. How do I put this... the usual documentation that one gets with a game program is so awful that Gunship's manual looks like paradise. But it still isn't perfect. First off, the cover smears. Practice safe reading; wear a condom on each finger :-) Okay, no big deal, but my manual looked positively yucky before I'd even loaded the program for the first time. In a less frivolous vein, the manual has a big weak spot: data you need for flight planning. If your mission occurs during a heat wave, you can't just load the chopper up with everything in sight; you've got to be selective if you want to get off the ground. But the manual doesn't tell you how much the various items weigh. You have to experiment, and just to make things more difficult you aren't allowed to overload even momentarily during the ordnance selection phase. So you have to play around offloading stuff, and then adding stuff back on, and repeat until you've got a usable balance. It doesn't help that offloading and reloading fuel or cannon rounds is a slow process. It didn't take me long to decide to make up my own chart showing how much each item weighs. Oh, be sure to make a note of your selection, because when you stop land to refuel you'll have to set up your armament choices all over again. Another flight-planning shortcoming: nowhere does the manual say how fast the chopper burns fuel. That turns out to be important; it's somewhere between 20-25 gallons per minute, and since your tanks hold only 376 gallons your flights are limited to about 15 minutes each. Another reason it's important is that I've found the fuel gauges to be easily damaged in combat, and I want to be able to continue fighting until my watch says the fuel is running low. A really big problem: the description of the map isn't anything like what you see on the screen. Apparently the description is for one of the other computers (the manual is a one-size-fits-all for C-64, Apple, Atari ST, Amiga, and PC). This makes things rough in the beginning; the book says your gunnery range targets are an enemy base, enemy depot, and enemy HQ. Good luck finding them on the map. I finally figured out the enemy HQ; the symbol matched but the color was wrong. With a lot of experience I can now recognize most of the map symbols, including all of the important ones. (It doesn't help that I'm using a TV, not a monitor, so I get some color smearing in critical places). Oh, remember I was complaining about having to guesstimate the distance to your destination by eyeballing the map? Well, the manual doesn't tell you what the scale on the map is. You get to figure that out for yourself too. Another shortcoming becomes apparent once you've gotten out of training and gone to a war zone. Many of the mission descriptions leave you scratching your head, and the manual doesn't mention them at all. Sure, anyone can figure out "Destroy enemy depot at map coordinates 8,3." But what do you do with "Clear LZ at 5,2" or "Support friendly base at 4,7"? You go out, you destroy everything in sight, and still don't get a Mission Completed message. You refuel, make another trip out to the area, spend 15 minutes flying around finding nothing to blast, and *still* no Mission Completed. Frustrating. It turns out that in the SouthEast Asia war zone -- the usual choice for a first tour -- enemy targets are often difficult to find (that *is* mentioned in the manual). After you've *found* and destroyed everything in the area (*and* for some distance around), then you'll get your Mission Completed message. It would have helped a lot to be told that I was on the right track, to just hang in there and keep looking, maybe over a wider area. The bottom line of this is that the beginner is left wondering where he's supposed to go, how far away it is, what he's supposed to do when he gets there, how much time he's got to do it in, and how much of which weapons he can take. Once you've got some experience, it's no problem (but then, manuals are *supposed* to be mainly for the beginners, no?) >There's a blindingly fast quick-loader employed to boot _Gunship_, and I'm >happy to report that it seems to work equally well on 1541 clones. I wouldn't call it "blindingly fast"; it looks like a garden variety double- speed quick-loader to me. Unfortunately, the quick-loader apparently has a very simplistic error-recovery algorithm: retry until it works or until Hell freezes over, whichever comes first. And it's apparently based on some kind of checksum in the data; it reads in a bunch of stuff and then rereads the whole file if it failed. After I'd watched it load and load and load and load for almost 10 minutes, I finally caught on that something was wrong. Obvious guess: drive alignment (my 1541 has given me fits about alignment on a regular basis for over 5 years). But there were none of the usual symptoms -- no flashing light, no clickety-click as the drive tries coming at the track from the opposite direction, no head-banging as the drive makes sure it's got the correct track. Just the steady red light, and the drive going click-click-click-click as it stepped from track to track, and an occasional whirrrr as the head moved to a new spot. All normal! So I pulled out my most hard-to-load diskettes, and one by one they all loaded without trouble. As Murphy's Law dictates, on the very last one I got a solid failure to load, and set about to align the drive yet again. I usually align the drive to match the most recent troublemaker, since that's usually the disk I'll be using a lot right away. Guess what? The Gunship disk's copy protection is such that the 1541's DOS can't read it at all. So I had to align to the one disk I had that did fail to load. The anticlimax is that I can now load Gunship without trouble. But I'll be keeping an ear out for anything that sounds like repeated reads. Oh, and speaking of the copy protection. Chris Lishka noted that you can get a backup diskette from MicroProse for $10. Unfortunately, the order form is part of the registration card. I don't know if you can actually go back and order one later if your disk dies. Sounds to me like they're "selling insurance". All of the above notwithstanding, it's still a *great* game and I would definitely recommend it to anyone who is interested. -- Doug Pardee -- Edge Computer Corp., Scottsdale, AZ -- uunet!ism780c!edge!doug, {ames,hplabs,sun,amdahl,ihnp4,allegra}!oliveb!edge!doug, mot!edge!doug
lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Christopher Lishka) (12/23/87)
[Hi Doug!] I posted one of the reviews of Gunship, at Doug's request. I would like to make just a few corrections to some of the complaints he has about the game. In article <1007@edge.UUCP> doug@edge.UUCP (Doug Pardee) writes: >The graphics aren't nearly as slow as Flight Simulator II, but on the other >hand they're not "so quick you don't notice them updating". I would say >that they're right on the edge of the "acceptable" range for a game which >requires this much hand/eye coordination. This is annoying, especially considering that games such as Elite can get blindingly fast graphics out of the aging c64. Also, I stated previously that the graphics were licensed from Sublogic. Doug (in a private note) said that he thought they were done by Sid Meier. Well, after rereading the "Notes" section in the back of the manual, I realize that the graphics were done by Andy Hollis. This egg on my face is embarassing! >There are a couple of quirks of the simulation that I can't believe that the >real chopper pilots put up with. One is that every time the automatic >targetting system loses track of a target, it shuts down. You have to turn >it back on again when that target (or another one) is trackable. This is particularily annoying and is made worse by the fact that the TADS always homes in on the closest target. One would think that a TADS display would be able to track something even a bit after it went off screen, but no such luck here. >Ah, the manual. How do I put this... the usual documentation that one gets >with a game program is so awful that Gunship's manual looks like paradise. >But it still isn't perfect. > >First off, the cover smears. Practice safe reading; wear a condom on each >finger :-) Okay, no big deal, but my manual looked positively yucky before >I'd even loaded the program for the first time. Wow, my cover hasn't smeared! Maybe they changed inks recently. I use my manual fairly often for the look-it-up-in-the-manual copy protection schemes, and haven't had *any* trouble with this. Looks like Microprose might have moved to cheaper printing. >In a less frivolous vein, the manual has a big weak spot: data you need for >flight planning. If your mission occurs during a heat wave, you can't just >load the chopper up with everything in sight; you've got to be selective if >you want to get off the ground. But the manual doesn't tell you how much >the various items weigh. You have to experiment, and just to make things >more difficult you aren't allowed to overload even momentarily during the >ordnance selection phase. So you have to play around offloading stuff, and >then adding stuff back on, and repeat until you've got a usable balance. It >doesn't help that offloading and reloading fuel or cannon rounds is a slow >process. It didn't take me long to decide to make up my own chart showing >how much each item weighs. Well, this is partially offset by the computer choosing a good weapons assortment for each mission, which you may change if you want. I have fooled around with different types of weapons, but I have found that what the program chooses always seems to be a fine assortment of weapons, and I have taken to using its arrangements these days. Also, the amount and types of weapons varies with where you are flying and who your enemy is. >Another flight-planning shortcoming: nowhere does the manual say how fast the >chopper burns fuel. That turns out to be important; it's somewhere between >20-25 gallons per minute, and since your tanks hold only 376 gallons your >flights are limited to about 15 minutes each. Another reason it's important >is that I've found the fuel gauges to be easily damaged in combat, and I want >to be able to continue fighting until my watch says the fuel is running low. You must fly *really* fast, Doug! I usually don't go all that fast, preferring to mosey around and pick off the enemies at a relaxed pace, and have found that I can fly sometimes for over 30 minutes real-time without any trouble. In fact, even when my fuel tanks get hit, I am usually out for over 15 minutes. I would suspect that fuel consumption varies greatly with travelling speed and the *weight* of the helicopter. Since you like to carry many weapons, Doug, I wonder if it isn;t causing more fuel to be consumed. As I stated above, I nearly always use the computers choice for weapons, and I have had few problems with excessive fuel burn up. >A really big problem: the description of the map isn't anything like what >you see on the screen. Apparently the description is for one of the other >computers (the manual is a one-size-fits-all for C-64, Apple, Atari ST, >Amiga, and PC). This makes things rough in the beginning; the book says >your gunnery range targets are an enemy base, enemy depot, and enemy HQ. >Good luck finding them on the map. I finally figured out the enemy HQ; >the symbol matched but the color was wrong. With a lot of experience I >can now recognize most of the map symbols, including all of the important >ones. (It doesn't help that I'm using a TV, not a monitor, so I get some >color smearing in critical places). > >Another shortcoming becomes apparent once you've gotten out of training and >gone to a war zone. Many of the mission descriptions leave you scratching >your head, and the manual doesn't mention them at all. Sure, anyone can >figure out "Destroy enemy depot at map coordinates 8,3." But what do you >do with "Clear LZ at 5,2" or "Support friendly base at 4,7"? You go out, >you destroy everything in sight, and still don't get a Mission Completed >message. You refuel, make another trip out to the area, spend 15 minutes >flying around finding nothing to blast, and *still* no Mission Completed. >Frustrating. > >It turns out that in the SouthEast Asia war zone -- the usual choice for a >first tour -- enemy targets are often difficult to find (that *is* mentioned >in the manual). After you've *found* and destroyed everything in the area >(*and* for some distance around), then you'll get your Mission Completed >message. It would have helped a lot to be told that I was on the right >track, to just hang in there and keep looking, maybe over a wider area. > >The bottom line of this is that the beginner is left wondering where he's >supposed to go, how far away it is, what he's supposed to do when he gets >there, how much time he's got to do it in, and how much of which weapons >he can take. Once you've got some experience, it's no problem (but then, >manuals are *supposed* to be mainly for the beginners, no?) Well, there is one *REALLY* important fact that the manual left out that is inexcusable, has caused me a *lot* of headaches during my first missions, and that would probably solve all of Doug's gripes above. NEW PILOTS TAKE NOTE OF THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION, FOR IT IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE MANUALS! When you receive a mission, it gives you both coordinates and a type of mission, such as "support friendly troops" or "hunt and destroy tanks" or whatever. The manual tells you that much. What the manual does NOT tell you is that the targets that you are required to hit to complete a mission appear on the map *IN*A*PURPLE*COLOR*! Why they chose purple is beyond me, because it rather hard to see, and near impossible to make out what type of enemy it is. However, these purple targets are all that need be destroyed to successfully complete a mission. Any more units destroyed are just brownie points. So, when you receive a mission, all you need do is remember the coordinates, remember what *type* of mission it is, and check the map to see how difficult it might be (i.e. if you will be able to fly into and out of the war zone with enough fuel, and if you think you stand a chance at making it back alive). The only reason to note the mission type is to know what kind of enemy you are up against. You do not want to go in thinking you are going after troops, only to find out that the little purple blotches on the map are tanks because you mentally switched the two missions around in your head. So please remember: enemies that appear in PURPLE on the map are the ones which you are required to destroy. Enemies which appear in RED are extra ones that you can hit if you want. Enemies that appear in WHITE are your own forces, so don't shoot them, 'cause they are not enemies! Go after PURPLE eneimes for certain, RED enemies if you feel dangerous, and do not touch the WHITE enemies. >Oh, remember I was complaining about having to guesstimate the distance to >your destination by eyeballing the map? Well, the manual doesn't tell you >what the scale on the map is. You get to figure that out for yourself too. Very true. This is a blinding error and should have been corrected. >>There's a blindingly fast quick-loader employed to boot _Gunship_, and I'm >>happy to report that it seems to work equally well on 1541 clones. > >I wouldn't call it "blindingly fast"; it looks like a garden variety double- >speed quick-loader to me. Unfortunately, the quick-loader apparently has a >very simplistic error-recovery algorithm: retry until it works or until Hell >freezes over, whichever comes first. And it's apparently based on some kind >of checksum in the data; it reads in a bunch of stuff and then rereads the >whole file if it failed. After I'd watched it load and load and load and >load for almost 10 minutes, I finally caught on that something was wrong. I would not call it blindingly fast either. It isn't bad, but my fastload cartridge is better ;-) However, I have not had any problems loading the game, although I have a permanent 1541 modification to fix bad tracking problems. >Oh, and speaking of the copy protection. Chris Lishka noted that you can >get a backup diskette from MicroProse for $10. Unfortunately, the order >form is part of the registration card. I don't know if you can actually >go back and order one later if your disk dies. Sounds to me like they're >"selling insurance". What I would like to know is whether or not there is a copier out there that will copy this game. Since this game is basically useless without the manual (two types of look-it-up-in-the-manual protection, and the fact that this game is really hard to play without reading the instructions), I have no qualms about backing this one up. Especially considering that the game writes to the disk after each mission, and also considering the track record with trashed disks in Microprose's game "Silent Service." Disk based protection to me is just to dangerous and annoying. >All of the above notwithstanding, it's still a *great* game and I would >definitely recommend it to anyone who is interested. >-- >Doug Pardee -- Edge Computer Corp., Scottsdale, AZ -- uunet!ism780c!edge!doug, >{ames,hplabs,sun,amdahl,ihnp4,allegra}!oliveb!edge!doug, mot!edge!doug A great game it definitely is. It looks like quite a bit of work went into writing this software. In fact, the manual states that "Gunship was an enormously long and complex project that took triple the estimated time and quadruple the original number of people." However, it really shows. This is the kind of software that wasn't just hacked together in one night by a high-school student. Instead it is a game that really drives the c64 to its performance peak, in the same ways that Elite does. Bravo to Microprose for developing such an intersting simulation. -Chris -- Chris Lishka /lishka@uwslh.uucp Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene <-lishka%uwslh.uucp@rsch.wisc.edu "What, me, serious? Get real!" \{seismo, harvard,topaz,...}!uwvax!uwslh!lishka
seven@nuchat.UUCP (David Paulsen) (12/28/87)
In article <295@uwslh.UUCP>, lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Christopher Lishka) writes: > In article <1007@edge.UUCP> doug@edge.UUCP (Doug Pardee) writes: > >>First off, the cover smears. Practice safe reading; wear a condom on each >>finger :-) Okay, no big deal, but my manual looked positively yucky before >>I'd even loaded the program for the first time. > > Wow, my cover hasn't smeared! Maybe they changed inks >recently. I use my manual fairly often for the >look-it-up-in-the-manual copy protection schemes, and haven't had >*any* trouble with this. Looks like Microprose might have moved to >cheaper printing. I'd second this, since my manual looks pretty good even after a year of frenzied use and uncounted missions. My cover looks positively glossy. >>Another flight-planning shortcoming: nowhere does the manual say how fast the >>chopper burns fuel. That turns out to be important; it's somewhere between >>20-25 gallons per minute, and since your tanks hold only 376 gallons your >>flights are limited to about 15 minutes each. Another reason it's important >>is that I've found the fuel gauges to be easily damaged in combat, and I want >>to be able to continue fighting until my watch says the fuel is running low. I've only run out of fuel a few times, and always it's after I've taken a few hits in the fuel tanks and am struggling to get home. I've even managed to autorotate in safely a couple of times. Typically, if I get hit AT ALL, I try to turn back, unless there's a REAL juicy target just asking to be nuked. I'd rather not risk crashing my multi-megabuck bird by running out of gas. :-) I agree that the book should give some indication of fuel usage; I finally learned what "felt" right after awhile, assuming the guages are working... [...] >>>There's a blindingly fast quick-loader employed to boot _Gunship_, and I'm >>>happy to report that it seems to work equally well on 1541 clones. >> >>I wouldn't call it "blindingly fast"; it looks like a garden variety double- >>speed quick-loader to me. Unfortunately, the quick-loader apparently has a >>very simplistic error-recovery algorithm: retry until it works or until Hell >>freezes over, whichever comes first. And it's apparently based on some kind >>of checksum in the data; it reads in a bunch of stuff and then rereads the >>whole file if it failed. After I'd watched it load and load and load and >>load for almost 10 minutes, I finally caught on that something was wrong. > > I would not call it blindingly fast either. It isn't bad, but >my fastload cartridge is better ;-) However, I have not had any >problems loading the game, although I have a permanent 1541 >modification to fix bad tracking problems. Hmmmm... "Blinding"? Did I say "blindingly fast"? I did, didn't I? Well... Granted, it's probably nothing fancier than the routines employed by other quickloaders, but what prompted my comment was the speed with which _Gunship_ tosses huge chunks of memory around... each one of those hi-res screens is at least 6K --some are the full screen, 8K-- and they all load in a coupla seconds. Press left-shift during play and the game pauses for maybe four seconds while it gets the Damage Display, a full 8K screenful. Considering the game covers both sides of a diskette, and you're not left waiting 10 minutes for the game to load (assuming your drive's aligned) that's pretty impressive. I've got a copy of _MULE_ I bought about the same time as _Gunship_ that takes over six minutes to load the friggin title screen! Gak. Also, you might have a weak disk, Doug. I've used my single _Gunship_ disk on three different 1541-oids in the past year, all in various states of alignment, with no problems. It could also be that MicroProse is cheaping out on the quality of their disks as well as their manuals... perhaps the bits aren't sticking to your diskette like they should. -- David Paulsen - CHARTER MEMBER, WILLIAM WINDOM FAN CLUB ..uunet!nuchat!seven "It had a maw that could swallow a DOZEN starships!" --Commodore Matt Decker, chewing on the scenery again
lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Christopher Lishka) (12/30/87)
One quick note: I bought Bounder a couple weeks ago and found
that my version didn't work. Well, I returned it, got another one,
and it didn't work. Took the second copy over to my brother's house
over vacation, tried it on his c128 (w/1571), and it worked fine. It
is a very nice game! However, it does not seem to work properly on
older model c64's, as I have a very early one (my screen still "twinkles").
Beware: this game may not work on your c64. This is the
*only* game I have ever used that does not work on my machine. There
have been a few games that die with my brother's 1571, but that isn't
too surprising. It does surprise me that this game did not work properly.
Question: it would seem that this game uses some really
low-level hand-waving to get some stuff done, but how could it not
work across different c64's? What could make it that incompatible? I
spoke with a friend, and he said he has encountered other software
like this, but this is the only time I have *ever* used software on my
machine that does not work.
-Chris
--
Chris Lishka /lishka@uwslh.uucp
Wisconsin State Lab of Hygiene <-lishka%uwslh.uucp@rsch.wisc.edu
"What, me, serious? Get real!" \{seismo, harvard,topaz,...}!uwvax!uwslh!lishka