crgabb@sdrc.UUCP (Rob Gabbard) (12/29/87)
I'm thinking about purchasing Geos and using it with the new 1764 256K RAM expansion for the 64. I'm also going to purchase the 1351 Mouse and a 1200 baud modem (I'm still dragging around with a 1650). I've got a single 1541, a Star Gemini 10X, an old color TV and a BMC monochrome monitor. My original intent was to buy a MAC SE for word processing and telecommunications but I thought that this configuration would suit my needs for a while without spending $2-3K. I will probably get the Writer's Workshop w/ geoWrite 2.0 also and possibly geoPublish. Does anyone out there have a similar configuration ? If so, what have you found concerning performance, disk swapping, etc. I'd appreciate anyone's input on any of the Geos software. Rob Gabbard UUCP: uunet!sdrc!crgabb Workstation Systems Programmer Structural Dynamics Research Corporation
pete@umbc3.UMD.EDU (Pete Hsi ) (12/30/87)
In article <173@sdrc.UUCP> crgabb@sdrc.UUCP (Rob Gabbard) writes: > > I'm thinking about purchasing Geos and using it with the new >1764 256K RAM expansion for the 64. I'm also going to purchase the 1351 Mouse >and a 1200 baud modem (I'm still dragging around with a 1650). I've got a >single 1541, a Star Gemini 10X, an old color TV and a BMC monochrome monitor. > My >original intent was to buy a MAC SE for word processing and telecommunications >but I thought that this configuration would suit my needs for a while without >spending $2-3K. I will probably get the Writer's Workshop w/ geoWrite 2.0 also >and possibly geoPublish. > > Does anyone out there have a similar configuration ? If so, what have >you found concerning performance, disk swapping, etc. I'd appreciate anyone's >input on any of the Geos software. (I tried mailing this but my mail program barfed) okay, my 2 cents worth on GEOS: It is a good piece of software and you can tell a good deal of thought went into it: 1. It speeds up your 1541. 2. It provides the icon-type environment (something to impress your friends when they say "and what can your computer do?") 3. GEOwrite is a "WYSIWYG" editor... you see the formatted output on the screen as you are typing it in... special fonts and all! Very user friendly. 4. Disk swapping: there is NONE - you must copy the programs/files you need to a work-disk and use that work-disk thoughout your session. This is because there is not enough room on the original disk to save your data. However, you must use the original disk to boot or re-boot GEOS: the booter is copy protected (okay some disk swapping is required). (This a well thought out feature of GEOS: copy protection for the vendor while allowing some sort of back-up capability for the user.) BUT I won't recommend it or the following reasons: 1. It is too gimicky - you can accomplish the same things with better results using "regular" programs. 2. Lifting your hand to/from keyboard and joystick/mouse is annoying and not natural... it breaks your rythm (sp?) and ruins your train of thought. This is the dark side to most user-friendly software: the "friendliness" becomes cumbersome as you get more proficient. (this is based on experience and scientific studies... no flames please). 3. The printout is just plain UGLY! GEOS supports the Gemini-10x (I got one too) but the print is still unacceptable. This is the main reason why I don't use the program anymore and it is the main reason I would not recommend buying it. (Laser printer is supported. See below.) 4. It has different drivers for different input devices (joystick, mouse, touch-tablet, etc). I have tried it with the mouse and joystick... pretty inaccurate and is especially fusterating to use with GEO-Draw. (try this: draw a circle with GEOS and try it with a Amiga or Mac... you will see there is a huge difference) 5. It is a disk-intensive program. Even with the 1541 speed-up feature, response times are not fast enough! For example, if you are writing a long paper with different fonts, frequent disk accesses are neccessary to to scroll though the buffer and to retrieve the different fonts. (I don't know if c64 GEOS supports the memory expension-I know c128 GEOS supports it. if it does, then this point is moot.) 6. "GEOpublish": I would take the "desk-top" publishing point with a grain of salt, considering the awful printout GEOS produces. Use a laser printer? DO YOU HAVE LASER PRINTER???? Can you afford a laser printer????? :-) All in all, the disadvantages out weigh the advantages: it is a well written piece of software but it is limited by the capabilities of the hardware. What I would do: before buying it, examine it first. See if you can get use to using the joystick/mouse drivers and see if the printout is acceptable for you ... try more than one font. The '64 is a great machine. But if you want the ideal icon-driven desk-top publishing system, you're better off with something faster than a '64. Save your money and buy a good '64 word-processor. I have more grips about GEOS but I'm sure other users will bring them up. I hope this helps --Pete ARPA: pete@umbc3.umd.edu or pete@umbc2.umd.edu Bitnet: pete@umbc p.s.: get the 1200 baud modem... I just retired my 1650 and boy what a difference! (pst! hey buddy, wanna buy a modem? :-) p.p.s.: please don't over-react to my criticisms(sp?).... my asbestos suit is at the cleaners ;-)
bjh@mtgzz.UUCP (XMRN40000[tls]-b.j.hudson) (12/31/87)
In article <173@sdrc.UUCP>, crgabb@sdrc.UUCP writes: > I'm thinking about purchasing Geos and using it with the new > 1764 256K RAM expansion for the 64. I use GEOS by Berkley Softworks on a C-64 with 2 1541's and a 1764 upgraded to 512K. GEOS only supports a maximum of 2 disk devices. The RAM expander, configured as a RAMDisk, can serve as a second drive, but not as a third disk. The RAM expander can also be configured to shadow a 1541. Repeated reads are much faster and writes pass thru to the actual disk. GEOS C-64 does recognize 512K and allows both drives to be shadowed. >>> Does anyone know if I can make it be a 1571 RamDisk on a C-64 ? My first suggestion is to buy a 1764. GEOS really only works easily with 2 drives. A 1764 gives you the second drive without buying another 1541. I also suggest upgrading from the TV to a color monitor. The 1351 mouse works well with GEOS. You might want to skip Writer's Workshop and get geoPublish first. It really makes the C-64 shine. ......BJ Disclaimer: No connection to or endorsement of CBM or BSW.
hedley@cbmvax.UUCP (Hedley Davis) (01/01/88)
In article <666@umbc3.UMD.EDU> pete@umbc3.UMD.EDU (Pete Hsi (C)) writes: > >In article <173@sdrc.UUCP> crgabb@sdrc.UUCP (Rob Gabbard) writes: >> >> I'm thinking about purchasing Geos and using it with the new >>1764 256K RAM expansion for the 64. I'm also going to purchase the 1351 Mouse >>and a 1200 baud modem (I'm still dragging around with a 1650). I've got a > >BUT I won't recommend it or the following reasons: >4. It has different drivers for different input devices (joystick, > mouse, touch-tablet, etc). I have tried it with the mouse and joystick... > pretty inaccurate and is especially fusterating to use with GEO-Draw. > (try this: draw a circle with GEOS and try it with a Amiga or Mac... > you will see there is a huge difference) Uh... I think you may have been using the 1350 mouse, or using the 1351 mouse in joystick ( 1350 equivelence ) mode. If you use geos with the 1351 mouse running in proportional mode, I think you find the cursor responce to be very good. You can draw circles or whatever just fine. GEOS was originally designed for joystick usage. In that mode, whether you use a joystick, 1350 mouse, or 1351 mouse in joystick mode, you can only draw sort of octogonal types of things. Using the 1351 in proportional mode yeilds Amiga or MAC like hand drawn circles. The 1351 mouse driver for GEOS comes on the demo disk for the 1351. >5. It is a disk-intensive program. Even with the 1541 speed-up feature, > response times are not fast enough! For example, if you are writing a long > paper with different fonts, frequent disk accesses are neccessary to > to scroll though the buffer and to retrieve the different fonts. > (I don't know if c64 GEOS supports the memory expension-I know c128 > GEOS supports it. if it does, then this point is moot.) The point is moot, because GEOS for the 64 supports the 1764. Responce times increase dramtically. > Hedley ( 1351 designer, 1764 RAMDOS writer )
crgabb@sdrc.UUCP (Rob Gabbard) (01/06/88)
Thanks for the responses about Geos. I went out and bought it and the 1351 mouse (as well as Gauntlet from Mindscape - great game!). I'll be getting the 1764 RAM expansion soon. I've got a couple of questions after using Geos though. 1. The manual says that after creating a work disk with the BACKUP/RESTORE utility, I can delete GEOS, GEOS BOOT and GEOS KERNAL. However, when I try to move one of these to the border or to delete it, I get a message that this can not be done with a system boot file. I understand why this would be hazardous on the boot disk, but why can't I do it here ? I ended up formatting a blank disk and copying the files I wanted one by one (alot of fun with one 1541), but then the BACKUP/RESTORE won't copy that disk for later use as a "work disk template". 2. The local stores only have 256K 1764 expansion units, but I understand that 512K is available. Can this be ordered from Commodore, or does anyone know of anyplace in the Cincinnati area who carries them ? 3. Is anyone using the GeoPrint Cable (specifically with a Star Micronics Gemini SG-10) ? I've got a Turboprint GT interface and it works kinda flakey. Sometimes I have to reboot 7 or 8 times to get the printer to resond properly and other times it just doesn't work at all. This isn't just with Geos, but with programs like Print Shop as well. Anyway, is the GeoPrint Cable a good deal for $40 or $50 ? 4. When using the 1764 RAM expansion and the configure utility, can multiple options be activated at once, for instance, both MoveData and a RAM 1541 ? What is the best selection for a one drive system with the 1764 ? 5. Will Geos work with Commodore's 1581(?) 3.5" drive ? Rob Gabbard Structural Dynamics Research Corporation Workstation Systems Programmer