prindle@NADC.ARPA (Frank Prindle) (12/13/88)
I recently signed up with the Quantum Link on-line telecommunications service. My impressions over the past two weeks have little to do with the quality of the services offered online because it has been very difficult to get the telecommunication link to operate reliably enough for me to explore the services (though what I have seen is pretty mediocre compared with GEnie for example). QLINK utilizes Tymnet Inc. to provide local dialup access to their computers in Vienna, VA. (Telenet Inc. access may also be available in certain areas). The Quantum Link software internally initiates the Tymnet logon, and therein lies the first problem: before Tymnet can test a potentially noisy line, they have to know which node it is, but QLINK software masks that logon dialog, so you can never find this out; QLINK software has no alternative manual login to Tymnet option. Furthermore, the initial dialog between the QLINK software and Tymnet sometimes goes awry, leaving you only with a string of + signs across the screen, and no connection. If you do successfully make it past the Tymnet logon, the QLINK software connects with their computers, sends your account info and current validation code, and updates your disk with a new validation code to be used the next time you log in. From that point on, everything (menus, text, downloads, etc.) is received in a bizarre packet format; packets are either very long (>1000 bytes) or many smaller packets are streamed over without acknowledgement (it's difficult to tell just from the lights on the modem). This process is often (but not always) very prone to erroneous receptions; data are not displayed until received error free; retransmissions are many; long idle delays occur (10-20 seconds typical) during reception; and if the idle time extends to 50 or 60 seconds, the QLINK software declares that the connection has been broken and simply dies. As you can well imagine, such nonsense is especially annoying during downloads which are charged at $.08/minute even when you are waiting for the menus to complete. There is no provision to interrupt a download that is not going well (e.g. a supposed 3 minute download that has gone 10 minutes and still declares that only 10% of the download has completed); you can only hang up, reboot, and call again! All this, you understand, is taking place on a C128/Avatex Modem setup which has had rock-solid 1200 baud communication for years with the likes of Compuserve, GEnie, and various VAXen and SUNs using such renowned telecom software as XMOBUF, VIDTEX, IMP, and KERMIT. It is only QLINK and/or their software that is unreliable. Their customer service people apparently don't talk to each other - the first I called told me it must be Tymnet's fault and told me to call their customer service. The second told me I must "patch" my QLINK software to use Tymnet and proceeded to describe how to download (at my cost!) the patch program. I did both of these, experiencing only slight improvement. Another customer service person proclaimed that QLINK software doesn't work on any C64 or C128 if there are any peripherals attached!!!! She suggested that I must disconnect my 1581 drive, my printer, my 1750 RAM expansion, my mouse, and my joystick to use QLINK - I jokingly asked if it might work better if I disconnected the monitor also! When asked why, she said that is what she was told to say, and that she uses her C64 every day without problem, so it must be true. Now, as both an Electrical Engineer, and a Software Engineer with considerable C64/C128 hardware and software experience, I can assure you that there is absolutely no reasonable explanation why C64 telecommunications software would ever require removal of peripherals, especially since none of the aforementioned peripherals utilize the same port as the modem, none generate interrupts to the system when quiescent, and none modify or override the internal C64/C128 kernal ROMs. Clearly there are only two possibilities: 1) this is some sort of excuse they've concocted to make user's believe that the C64 is some kind of substandard machine and they should be happy with even poor telecommunications quality vs. none at all; or 2) their software is severely botched and they neither want to admit it nor fix it. I have one final call in to QLINK, supposedly to be returned by someone with an inkling of technical knowledge. I also have my cancellation letter ready to mail, because it just isn't worth the headache. Sincerely, Frank Prindle Prindle@NADC.arpa
mike@pmafire.UUCP (mike caldwell) (12/13/88)
In article <POSTNEWS20662@NADC.ARPA> prindle@NADC.ARPA (Frank Prindle) writes: >I recently signed up with the Quantum Link on-line telecommunications service. > .... >This process is often (but not always) very prone to erroneous receptions; data >are not displayed until received error free; retransmissions are many; long > .... I had similiar problems with down-loading until I applied the patch (See below) that Q-link supplied and I haven't had to hang-up and redial since. It was the best $.25 I've spent on Q-link. >All this, you understand, is taking place on a C128/Avatex Modem setup which >has had rock-solid 1200 baud communication for years with the likes of >Compuserve, GEnie, and various VAXen and SUNs using such renowned telecom And all this was on phone lines that are about as rock solid as greased mud. I haven't believed Compuserve was worth the money and haven't believed that GEnie would make it worth paying for two services. But I spend a lot of time using my 64 to work late at home (it beats working late at work). So I know how terrible the phone lines are here. My favorite key in kermit is ^L. And I normally leave KERMIT in terse DEBUG mode because with the number of resends you might as well enjoy the show on the screen. So while their packet format might be bizarre, at least it seems to work. >Their customer service people apparently don't talk to each other This sounds like all first rounds through customer service anywhere (even places like DEC and HP have this problem, software houses are even worse). You have to get through the first layer of custormer service and get the deeper layers, and from then on ask for them by name. >The second told me I must "patch" my QLINK software to use Tymnet and >proceeded to describe how to download (at my cost!) the patch program. I did Like I said, it was the best quarter I ever spent on Qlink. >both of these, experiencing only slight improvement. Another customer service >person proclaimed that QLINK software doesn't work on any C64 or C128 if there >are any peripherals attached!!!! She suggested that I must disconnect my 1581 >drive, my printer, my 1750 RAM expansion, my mouse, and my joystick to use >QLINK .... >Now, as both an Electrical Engineer, and a Software Engineer with considerable >C64/C128 hardware and software experience, I can assure you that there is >absolutely no reasonable explanation why C64 telecommunications software would >ever require removal of peripherals, especially since none of the aforementioned >peripherals utilize the same port as the modem, none generate interrupts >to the system when quiescent, and none modify or override the internal C64/C128 >kernal ROMs. I won't admit to being an expert on C64 hardware, but I have many a commericial piece of software that makes the same requirements. But of more useful information, I had a friend that was having similiar problems with his C64 connecting with Qlink and staying connected. The cure was to replace the PLA that connect to his joystick!? This cured the problem so there is at least the posibility of joysticks interferring with telecommunications. >Sincerely, >Frank Prindle >Prindle@NADC.arpa -- Mike Caldwell Paths: ...uunet!bigtex!pmafire!mike | ...!ucdavis!egg-id!pma386!mike
wjt@wp3b01.UUCP (Bill Taggart) (12/14/88)
From article <POSTNEWS20662@NADC.ARPA>, by prindle@NADC.ARPA (Frank Prindle): > I recently signed up with the Quantum Link on-line telecommunications service. > My impressions over the past two weeks have little to do with the quality of > the services offered online because it has been very difficult to get the > telecommunication link to operate reliably enough for me to explore the > services ... Rest of the telecommunications problem description deleted. I find this puzzling, and would blame it on user inexperience except it is coming from one of the two or three most knowledgeable C64/C128 readers of this newsgroup. Personally, I have experienced very few problems with Qlink in the three years I have subscribed to their service. Yes, I have experienced a few bad downloads -- but that is expected -- and it only happens two or three times a year. Like Frank, I have found the software to sensitive to line noise and usually switch from Tymnet to Telenet when the noise becomes a problem (before I try downloading anything) -- this has always cured the noise problem for me. The software is user friendly (read idiot proof) and does remove all control from the caller -- placing you at it's mercy. But, again, I have experienced very few problems. Maybe I have good local (actually I have to call long-distance across state lines to get the the geographically closest node) connections in my area. I briefly tried GEnie and Compuserve -- but found Qlink had more C64/C128 specific information, public domain programs, etc. Qlink is the fastest growing paid BBS and is now second only to Compuserve -- which is remarkable since it only serves the Commodore community. According to Loren Lovhaug in a recent article in RUN or Compute!'s Gazzette Qlink is the best service for the Commodore user, especially considering GEnie's recent decline in the Commodore-specfic areas. Bottom-line, I suggest calling more distant nodes to see if you get better connections there. Otherwise, I doubt I could suggest something that Frank doesn't already know. Personally, I would like to see Frank as a contributor to Qlink's Twin Cities 128 section along with Loren Lovhaug (the SYSOP), Fred Bowen, and Lou Wallace. Please give Qlink a chance. -- Bill Taggart ..{att!mtgzz or uunet}!wp3b01!wjt
anderson@ncrcce.StPaul.NCR.COM (Joel Peter Anderson) (12/14/88)
In article <POSTNEWS20662@NADC.ARPA> prindle@NADC.ARPA (Frank Prindle) writes: >I recently signed up with the Quantum Link on-line telecommunications service. >My impressions over the past two weeks have little to do with the quality of >the services offered online because it has been very difficult to get the >telecommunication link to operate reliably enough for me to explore the >services (though what I have seen is pretty mediocre compared with GEnie for >example). > [Much discussion of wretched response time, service,etc.] Welll..... "Quantum Link - telecommunication at it's poorest" may be overstating it..... I started using QLINK and have continued using it - despite experiencing a good deal of Franks complaints. Loren Lovhaug had a recent RUN article where he evaluated QLink - also faulting the interface/terminal that you deal with. As a long time CBM user and telecommunications user (and software engineer to boot) the best thing to say about Qlink communications software is it is Novice oriented software. There are unfortunately no fast short cuts to use once you get the hang of the system - essentially you are completely captive to the menus and peculiar system Qlink uses.... On the other hand - I have found that avoiding the peak times gets pretty decent response/download times. And the libraries are pretty extensive - and only Commodore. I initially signed on because of the Geos libraries and BSW official support - and have stayed because 1) extensive libraries 2) large online user community. 3) Groliers Encyclopedia online (no charge over $10/month for that). I dunno... I periodically get fed up (after a long download or one that hung in the middle...) But then I start browsing some library or discover a new release of kermit, or a Lisp system for the 64.... I guess if you already have an online system you like you may not like QLink (and will find that services only duplicate ones you have elsewhere) on the other hand a complete novice (nobody reading this, I trust) would be quite happy with the 100% menudriven system of Qlink. Since there is no Baud rate based fee it is a good system to use 1200 baud on - or in other words - don't use 300 Baud since you are essentially paying 4 times as much (unless all you ever use are the few free services like the encyclopedia). ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "We know only the strong will survive, But the meek will inherit. So if you've got a coat of arms, oh friend, I suggest we wear it." John Mellencamp. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- anderson@c10sd3.StPaul.NCR.COM |UUCP: {rosevax, crash}!orbit!pnet51!jpa Joel Peter Anderson |ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!jpa@nosc.mil NCR Comten / Software engineer |INET: jpa@pnet51.cts.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------
jhc@vax5.CIT.CORNELL.EDU (12/14/88)
I'm going to try to discuss most of the issues Frank brings up. I must first disclaim that I haven't had my 128 hooked up in the last 12 mmonths (space/time considerations) and might be a bit rusty, but not too rusty. (Also, I always used Telenet rather than Tymnet, but the differences shouldn't be that big.) In article <POSTNEWS20662@NADC.ARPA> prindle@NADC.ARPA (Frank Prindle) writes: |I recently signed up with the Quantum Link on-line telecommunications service. |My impressions over the past two weeks have little to do with the quality of |the services offered online because it has been very difficult to get the |telecommunication link to operate reliably enough for me to explore the |services (though what I have seen is pretty mediocre compared with GEnie for |example). | |QLINK utilizes Tymnet Inc. to provide local dialup access to their computers |in Vienna, VA. (Telenet Inc. access may also be available in certain areas). |The Quantum Link software internally initiates the Tymnet logon, and therein |lies the first problem: before Tymnet can test a potentially noisy line, |they have to know which node it is, but QLINK software masks that logon |dialog, so you can never find this out; QLINK software has no alternative |manual login to Tymnet option. Furthermore, the initial dialog between the |QLINK software and Tymnet sometimes goes awry, leaving you only with a string |of + signs across the screen, and no connection. I did have some problems at first, but orderred a new version (~$3.00) that corrected all of the problems I had loging in. | |If you do successfully make it past the Tymnet logon, the QLINK software |connects with their computers, sends your account info and current validation |code, and updates your disk with a new validation code to be used the next |time you log in. From that point on, everything (menus, text, downloads, etc.) |is received in a bizarre packet format; packets are either very long (>1000 |bytes) or many smaller packets are streamed over without acknowledgement |(it's difficult to tell just from the lights on the modem). I have a C= modem (the 1200 bps one) so don't have LED's to watch: can't comment here. |This process is often (but not always) very prone to erroneous receptions; data |are not displayed until received error free; retransmissions are many; long idle |delays occur (10-20 seconds typical) during reception; and if the idle time |extends to 50 or 60 seconds, the QLINK software declares that the connection |has been broken and simply dies. As you can well imagine, such nonsense is |especially annoying during downloads which are charged at $.08/minute even |when you are waiting for the menus to complete. There is no provision to |interrupt a download that is not going well (e.g. a supposed 3 minute |download that has gone 10 minutes and still declares that only 10% of the |download has completed); you can only hang up, reboot, and call again! I can say, however, that all of my communication was very smooth; there were no long waits, hung lines, etc. The lines were at times noisy, but I noticed no retries, etc. (Cornell-NYTel-Telnet @ 1200 bps.) I agree, though, that the provision to interupt dl's would be nice. |All this, you understand, is taking place on a C128/Avatex Modem setup which |has had rock-solid 1200 baud communication for years with the likes of |Compuserve, GEnie, and various VAXen and SUNs using such renowned telecom |software as XMOBUF, VIDTEX, IMP, and KERMIT. It is only QLINK and/or their |software that is unreliable. | |Their customer service people apparently don't talk to each other - the first |I called told me it must be Tymnet's fault and told me to call their customer |service. The second told me I must "patch" my QLINK software to use Tymnet and |proceeded to describe how to download (at my cost!) the patch program. I did |both of these, experiencing only slight improvement. Another customer service |person proclaimed that QLINK software doesn't work on any C64 or C128 if there |are any peripherals attached!!!! She suggested that I must disconnect my 1581 |drive, my printer, my 1750 RAM expansion, my mouse, and my joystick to use |QLINK - I jokingly asked if it might work better if I disconnected the monitor |also! When asked why, she said that is what she was told to say, and that |she uses her C64 every day without problem, so it must be true. OK, Cust Serv is not the best in the world, but then the only computer companies (hw & sw) whose cust-serv personel I've encountered, who really knew what they were doing (or knew who to forward your call to) were MicroSoft (Mac soft division, corporate cust-serv), DEC, HP Corvalis, & Adobe. (I never did get thru to C=...) Anyway, some of them are OK, and they did finally explain how to set up the phone number to signal that it is a Telnet number. As for unconnecting peripherals, that is because the software uses disk drive speed up software that bombs when more than one device is hanging off the serial port. (It's the std stuff making the serial port into a quasi-parralel port.) This is why they suggest that you disconnect extra drives, printers, etc. I did manage to survive with my 2nd '71 and my printer connected, though. (Actually, the only problems I remember were the times my Frosh-year roommate turned on his toaster oven while I was logged in. (We were lucky, though as our 6 apt breaker actually waited until almost 9 amps before breaking, and the voltage was usually at 125, so we could hang ~1 KW off the line before she blew. the toaster oven was rated at something like 1.5 or 2 K at startup--instant power off ;^) (To compare w/ other rooms, some of the breakers would bomb at 5 amps, and the voltage in some of those rooms was more often at 110. I never did figure out why the voltages were so different in the same building.) |Now, as both an Electrical Engineer, and a Software Engineer with considerable |C64/C128 hardware and software experience, I can assure you that there is |absolutely no reasonable explanation why C64 telecommunications software would |ever require removal of peripherals, especially since none of the aforementioned |peripherals utilize the same port as the modem, none generate interrupts |to the system when quiescent, and none modify or override the internal C64/C128 |kernal ROMs. Clearly there are only two possibilities: 1) this |is some sort of excuse they've concocted to make user's believe that the C64 |is some kind of substandard machine and they should be happy with even poor |telecommunications quality vs. none at all; or 2) their software is severely |botched and they neither want to admit it nor fix it. See the above paragraph concerning why to disconn pariph's. |I have one final call in to QLINK, supposedly to be returned by someone with |an inkling of technical knowledge. I also have my cancellation letter ready |to mail, because it just isn't worth the headache. | |Sincerely, |Frank Prindle |Prindle@NADC.arpa Overall, I don't think QuanumLink is all *that* bad, or at least wasn't, but as I've said, I've not used the 128 in 12 months, and have been concentrating on mainframes, Mac's and soon NeXT's. (Oh, yes, and I had to learn MS/DOS too.) I think the 128 is going on the block soon, but now I'm rambling. (Blame the clock, "It's 0600 hours in the *blooody* AM!!!"-Colonel Potter to Radar, a M*A*S*H episode, replayed every morning one year on my default FM station just when I had to get up for school. Disclaimer: I'm in no way connected w/ QLINK other than an (ex)customer (that still happens to be subscribed) and hasn't used it for a year. P.S. Did they ever get that software where people interact via what_do_you_ call_its in environments complete w/ houses, etc., etc.? Before I fall asleep (& hoping that I've written more than I included...) -JimC -- James H. Cloos, Jr. "Entropy isn't what it used to be." jhc@Crnlvax5.BITNET --c/o Fortune @ batcomputer.UUCP jhc@Vax5.CIT.Cornell.EDU #include <std_disclaimers.h> cornell!vax1!vax5.cit.cornell.edu!jhc@rochester.UUCP B-7 Upson Hall, Cornell Univ., Ithaca, NY 14853 +1 607 272 4519
rls@texhrc.UUCP (Bob Simmons) (12/16/88)
Frank Prindle complains of difficulties using Quantum Link and I can certainly echo many of his complaints. Having to disconnect peripherals just to log on is an old complaint, but Qlink has apparently not yet decided to listen to its dwindling customer base. I cancelled my subscription some time ago when I got the distinct impression that Qlink considered my wanting to use their service an imposition. Compuserve, the biggest of them all, is continually revising their system to make it easier to use. Which system wants customers? What do you think Tom Peters would say? Disclaimer: Texaco doesn't speak for me, nor I for it. --------------------+-------------------------------------------------------- Bob Simmons | E&P Technology Div. | Email: uunet!nuchat!texhrc!rls Texaco Inc. | Voice: (713) 954-6055 Houston, Texas | Snail: Texaco Inc., P.O. Box 770070, Houston, TX 77215
jep@fantasci.UUCP (Joseph E Poplawski) (12/18/88)
In article <POSTNEWS20662@NADC.ARPA> prindle@NADC.ARPA (Frank Prindle) writes: > >Now, as both an Electrical Engineer, and a Software Engineer with considerable >C64/C128 hardware and software experience, I can assure you that there is >absolutely no reasonable explanation why C64 telecommunications software would >ever require removal of peripherals,especially since none of the aforementioned >peripherals utilize the same port as the modem, none generate interrupts >to the system when quiescent, and none modify or override the internal C64/C128 >kernal ROMs. I have several pieces of software (non-communication) for my C=64 that require NO peripherals attached. Only 1 drive, period. I didn't find this out until I called the one company three or four times (Electronic Arts I think, or was it the authors of Paperback Writer?). If the company knows the peripheral will have to be unhooked, then why don't they fix the problem? -Jo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Joseph E Poplawski (Jo) US Mail: 1621 Jackson Street | | Cinnaminson NJ 08077 | | UUCP:..!rutgers!rochester!moscom!telesci!fantasci!jep | | ..!princeton!telesci!fantasci!jep | | ..!pyrnj!telesci!fantasci!jep Phone: +1 609 786-8099 home | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joseph E Greco) (12/21/88)
In article <256@texhrc.UUCP> rls@texhrc.UUCP (Bob Simmons) writes: > >Frank Prindle complains of difficulties using Quantum Link and I can >certainly echo many of his complaints. Having to disconnect peripherals just >to log on is an old complaint, but Qlink has apparently not yet decided to >listen to its dwindling customer base. I cancelled my subscription some time >ago when I got the distinct impression that Qlink considered my wanting to >use their service an imposition. Compuserve, the biggest of them all, is Has anybody had any success using a BusCard II and 4040 or 8050 with QuantumLink? I gave up 1541's a long time ago and have never really regretted it. I probably wouldn't consider subscribing because of some horror stories I've heard locally, and because I really don't like being locked into that kind of software, but I have seen a few good things in the past. Can anyone compare Q-Link to GEnie (currently)? . JG -- Joe Greco