demoedf@iitmax.IIT.EDU (ed federmeyer) (01/17/89)
Hello, I would like some information on some of the older CBM computers...
I have a CBM 8096 computer and I need to know the following...
1) How is the expanded 64K option used? I have the board installed and it
still shows up as 38K (I think) free BASIC memory.
2) How do I drive the onboard film speaker, besides printing CTRL-G?
3) Is there an IEEE to RS232 interface available? I would like to run a BBS
message system with it, and I would like to hook up a cheap hayes compatible
300 baud RS-232 modem.
ANY responses will be greatly appreciated!
Ed Federmeyer aka
demoedf@iitmax.IIT.EDUjgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) (01/18/89)
In article <2035@iitmax.IIT.EDU> demoedf@iitmax.IIT.EDU (ed federmeyer) writes: >Hello, I would like some information on some of the older CBM computers... > >I have a CBM 8096 computer and I need to know the following... > >1) How is the expanded 64K option used? I have the board installed and it > still shows up as 38K (I think) free BASIC memory. I'm not too sure. I've heard alternating stories that it works like the SuperPET's extra 64K and that it can be banked in and out (more like the 64). In any case, it is not DIRECTLY usable and is probably the most useful to machine language programmers. >2) How do I drive the onboard film speaker, besides printing CTRL-G? PRINT CHR$(7)? hehehe.... I don't have the info at my fingertips, but you should be able to tweak the speaker line (or do something equivalent) to play music. I used to have a program that did this. If you want more info, e-mail me and maybe I can find some basic info. >3) Is there an IEEE to RS232 interface available? I would like to run a BBS > message system with it, and I would like to hook up a cheap hayes compatible > 300 baud RS-232 modem. Well, seeing as how the PET was designed to use an IEEE-based modem (the CBM 8010... I even have one, hehe), you might try to find one of those and find the modifications used to make it auto-answer. I know that there ARE IEEE/RS232 interfaces available, but I'm not too sure how well it would work for you. >ANY responses will be greatly appreciated! . JG -- jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu Joe Greco at FidoNet 1:154/200 USnail: 9905 W Montana Ave PunterNet Node 30 or 31 West Allis, WI 53227-3329 "These aren't anybody's opinions." Voice: 414/321-6184 Data: 414/321-9287 (Happy Hacker's BBS)
jbh@mibte.UUCP (James Harvey) (01/19/89)
In article <448@csd4.milw.wisc.edu>, jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) writes: > In article <2035@iitmax.IIT.EDU> demoedf@iitmax.IIT.EDU (ed federmeyer) writes: >>Hello, I would like some information on some of the older CBM computers... >> >>I have a CBM 8096 computer and I need to know the following... >> >>1) How is the expanded 64K option used? I have the board installed and it >> still shows up as 38K (I think) free BASIC memory. > > I'm not too sure. I've heard alternating stories that it works like > the SuperPET's extra 64K and that it can be banked in and out (more > like the 64). In any case, it is not DIRECTLY usable and is probably > the most useful to machine language programmers. > >>2) How do I drive the onboard film speaker, besides printing CTRL-G? > > PRINT CHR$(7)? hehehe.... I don't have the info at my fingertips, > but you should be able to tweak the speaker line (or do something > equivalent) to play music. I used to have a program that did this. > If you want more info, e-mail me and maybe I can find some basic info. > >>3) Is there an IEEE to RS232 interface available? I would like to run a BBS >> message system with it, and I would like to hook up a cheap hayes compatible >> 300 baud RS-232 modem. > > Well, seeing as how the PET was designed to use an IEEE-based modem > (the CBM 8010... I even have one, hehe), you might try to find one of > those and find the modifications used to make it auto-answer. I know > that there ARE IEEE/RS232 interfaces available, but I'm not too sure > how well it would work for you. > >>ANY responses will be greatly appreciated! > > . JG > -- > jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu Joe Greco at FidoNet 1:154/200 > USnail: 9905 W Montana Ave PunterNet Node 30 or 31 > West Allis, WI 53227-3329 "These aren't anybody's opinions." > Voice: 414/321-6184 Data: 414/321-9287 (Happy Hacker's BBS) I have one also. I also have two of the 64K memory expansion boards and SOMEWHERE there is a manual for them that describes how to do the banking. I remember you have to poke a memory location with a bank number and mabye another location to initiate the banking. I'll try to dig it up. This is best done from Machine Language of course. The speaker responds to a toggling of the "CB2" port in one of the interface chips. The old (Pre 8032) PETS frequently had a small amplifyer and speaker connected to this pin to do sound tricks. I hve programs SOMEWHERE to play music this way and they work on the 8032 film speaker. Sounds like there is a revival of interest in the PET lately. There have been a number of posts concerning the SuperPET on Comp.Sys.Amiga.Tech since Christmas. -- Jim Harvey | "Ask not for whom the bell Michigan Bell Telephone | tolls and you will only pay 29777 Telegraph | Station-to-Station rates." Southfield, Mich. 48034 | ulysses!gamma!mibte!jbh
sjk@utastro.UUCP (Scot Kleinman) (01/20/89)
Regarding some 8096 questions. I have a SuperPET, and I believe the 8096 banking is done the same way. You can activate 4k at a time through either $9000 or $a000 (I'm almost sure it's $9000). There are a few pokes which activate any of the given banks through that window, including, if you have them, any toolkit-type ROM. I found this handy, as I have too many ROMS for just the two slots, so I have saved the images to disk (had to disassemble a few of them and change addresses from $axxx to $9xxx) and can load them all in and select which one I want to use with a few pokes. Regarding the speaker, yes it does play music (well sort of). There are two memory locations which control it; one is like a timbre, or octave type thing, and the other is the tone which will be played. You poke in a value, it plays until you poke in another values or a 0. As I am in my office, now, I don't have all there memory locations handy (and I used to know them all by heart, man the things I could get that guy to do ....), but if you need the details, E-Mail me and I can look them up easily enough at home. Regarding the RS-232 interface. I believe a few companies used to make IEEE to RS-232 interfaces, but the one I have came from Skyles' Electric Works in Mountain View, CA (I believe his number is 415-965-1735). It attaches to the parallel port, and has a long cable with an RS-232 connector on the end. It does not continue the port, but I was able to make a connector that has my reset switch and joystick connections, then a passthrough to the RS-232 cable. Bob Skyles's shop is still around, but I don't know if he can make more of these interfaces. You might get him too, if you can talk directly with him. (I don't work for Skyle's or anything, I just think he is a really neat guy who has done a lot for all sorts of Commodore computers (perhaps more than Commodore did in the early days.)) Good luck, E-mail me if you need more info. scot sjk@astro.as.utexas.edu yow!
jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) (01/20/89)
In article <2748@mibte.UUCP> jbh@mibte.UUCP (James Harvey) writes: >In article <448@csd4.milw.wisc.edu>, jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) writes: {mass kill.. munch chomp [burp]} >> I'm not too sure. I've heard alternating stories that it works like >> the SuperPET's extra 64K and that it can be banked in and out (more >> like the 64). In any case, it is not DIRECTLY usable and is probably >> the most useful to machine language programmers. >> >>>2) How do I drive the onboard film speaker, besides printing CTRL-G? {urp} >I have one also. I also have two of the 64K memory expansion >boards and SOMEWHERE there is a manual for them that describes >how to do the banking. I remember you have to poke a memory >location with a bank number and mabye another location to >initiate the banking. I'll try to dig it up. This is best done >from Machine Language of course. If you can tell me whether the memory is banked in 4K segments or not, I might be able to help. The SuperPET banks in 4K segments, and I have info on how that works. As I said, I've heard conflicting stories that it banks in and out in 4K segs like the SuperPET 9000 and that it banks in and out in such a way that a lot of ROM can be remapped to expanded RAM. Which of the two is true is a mystery.... I can dig up the 4K info if there's interest in it. >The speaker responds to a toggling of the "CB2" port in one of >the interface chips. The old (Pre 8032) PETS frequently had a >small amplifyer and speaker connected to this pin to do sound >tricks. I hve programs SOMEWHERE to play music this way and >they work on the 8032 film speaker. Ah, it IS CB2. I wasn't sure, all my PET refs are at home or loaned out. There are MANY programs that will work in this case. The Toronto PET Users Group (TPUG) would be a good resource, as always. I also have a small board that connects to the user port and is designed to generate much better music (it appears to be a primitive D/A resistance network), but I've never used it. >Sounds like there is a revival of interest in the PET lately. >There have been a number of posts concerning the SuperPET on >Comp.Sys.Amiga.Tech since Christmas. By the way, Steve Punter's "BBS-PET" (pre BBS64) or whatever it was called may still be available from somebody. Whoever posted the original request expressed an interest. -- jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu Joe Greco at FidoNet 1:154/200 USnail: 9905 W Montana Ave PunterNet Node 30 or 31 West Allis, WI 53227-3329 "These aren't anybody's opinions." Voice: 414/321-6184 Data: 414/321-9287 (Happy Hacker's BBS)
sjk@utastro.UUCP (Scot Kleinman) (01/20/89)
All this talk about the old PET's has made me realize I need to contact TPUG. How can I do this? Thanks Scot sjk@astro.as.utexas From 8k, to 32, to 96, 1.5Meg, will it ever end?
fred@cbmvax.UUCP (Fred Bowen) (01/21/89)
In article <3549@utastro.UUCP> sjk@utastro.UUCP (Scot Kleinman) writes: >Regarding some 8096 questions. I have a SuperPET, and I believe the >8096 banking is done the same way. You can activate 4k at a time through >either $9000 or $a000 (I'm almost sure it's $9000). There are a few pokes >which activate any of the given banks through that window [...] > >Regarding the speaker, yes it does play music (well sort of). There are >two memory locations which control it [...] > >Regarding the RS-232 interface. I believe a few companies used to make IEEE to >RS-232 interfaces [...] The SuperPET bank switching is done through a register located at $EFFC, into which you place the bank number (0-15). There are 16 4K RAM banks which which appear in memory at $9000-$9FFF. There are other RAM and ROM expansion cartridges which appear at $A000. There is also a system latch, located at $EFF8, used to select the CPU (6502 or 6809), write protect memory, etc. When accessing the system latch, bit 7 of the bank select register must be set and the toggle switch on the side of the SuperPET must be set to PROG. Sound is generated on the SuperPET the same way it is on the PET and 8032, using the CB2 output on the user port. I/O (VIA) location $E84A sets the timbre, and the magical values are 15, 31, and 51. Location $E848 sets the note. Place values in these registers, then enable the shift register/ oscillator by placing the value 16 into location $E84B. Disable sound by placing a zero there. The SuperPET has two built-in ACIA's, a 6551 at location $EFF0 and a 6850 at location $EFF4. The 6551 is used for RS-232 I/O, the 6850 was simply a high speed serial line. A standard RS232 connector is included. I don't know of any IEEE-RS232 interfaces, but I do know IEEE-Centronics interfaces are still available. -- -- Fred Bowen uucp: {uunet|rutgers|pyramid}!cbmvax!fred arpa: cbmvax!fred@uunet.uu.net tele: 215 431-9100 Commodore Electronics, Ltd., 1200 Wilson Drive, West Chester, PA, 19380
jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) (01/21/89)
In article <5745@cbmvax.UUCP> fred@cbmvax.UUCP (Fred Bowen) writes: >The SuperPET bank switching is done through a register located at $EFFC, >into which you place the bank number (0-15). There are 16 4K RAM banks which >which appear in memory at $9000-$9FFF. There are other RAM and ROM expansion >cartridges which appear at $A000. The original question was re: 8096, not re: SuperPET....! >The SuperPET has two built-in ACIA's, a 6551 at location $EFF0 and a 6850 at ^^^^ >location $EFF4. The 6551 is used for RS-232 I/O, the 6850 was simply a high >speed serial line. A standard RS232 connector is included. I don't know of >any IEEE-RS232 interfaces, but I do know IEEE-Centronics interfaces are still >available. Um, Fred, where? Open wide, Betty.... opens SuperPET. I don't see any 6850. I do see a 6551 and support circuitry. I also don't see any 6850 in the service / technical manuals (at least on the Super board itself). Unless it's disguised on the 8032 motherboard, I still don't see any 6850. Which brings up another question. Is there ANY 6502 mode support for the 6551? I know it's not in ROM.... I've managed to get some marginally useful SuperPET terminals (6809 and 6502) but they croak when scrolling screen at 2400 or 9600 baud. What I'd like to see is device drivers, Kernal style, to support it. With a good input buffer, a good output buffer.... (is this starting to sound like the Plus/4?) Eventually I'd like to add an ACIA to one of my 64's and be able to talk with my Courier 2400e at 9600 baud. And stealing already written Kernal routines would be nice! :-) -- jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu Joe Greco at FidoNet 1:154/200 USnail: 9905 W Montana Ave PunterNet Node 30 or 31 West Allis, WI 53227-3329 "These aren't anybody's opinions." Voice: 414/321-6184 Data: 414/321-9287 (Happy Hacker's BBS)
izot@f171.n221.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Geoffrey Welsh) (01/22/89)
> From: demoedf@iitmax.IIT.EDU (ed federmeyer) > Message-ID: <2035@iitmax.IIT.EDU> > > I have a CBM 8096 computer and I need to know the following... > 1) How is the expanded 64K option used? I have the board installed and it > still shows up as 38K (I think) free BASIC memory. Like the C64, the extra RAM is banked under the ROMs, I/O, etc... although I never played with an 8096 or 8296, I believe the 64K is split into four 16K banks that can replace one (or perhaps both) of the 16K segments starting at $8000 or $C000. > 2) How do I drive the onboard film speaker, besides printing CTRL-G? The input to the speaker is amplified from the VIA's CB2 output. You can toggle that manually or set the shift register to shift out onto that line, using timer 2 in free-running mode to set the shift time. > 3) Is there an IEEE to RS232 interface available? I would like to run a > BBS message system with it, and I would like to hook up a cheap hayes > compatible 300 baud RS-232 modem. I'm sure there are IEEE-488 to RS-232C interfaces, but the "standard" method of attaching an RS-232 modem to the PET is via the user port. Voltage conversion (if necessary - it may not be) must be handled by a device similar to the VIC-1011A for the C64/128, and internal software drives the user port lines as if they were RS-232 lines. For more specific info on any of the above topics, send me some mail. =========================================================================== Internet: Geoffrey.Welsh@f171.n221.z1.fidonet.org | 66 Mooregate Crescent Usenet: watmath!isishq!izot | Suite 602 FidoNet: Geoffrey Welsh on 1:221/171 | Kitchener, Ontario PunterNet: 7/Geoffrey Welsh | N2M 5E6 CANADA BBS: (519) 742-8939 24h 7d 300/1200/2400bps | (519) 741-9553 =========================================================================== | "I don't need a disclaimer. No one pays any attention to what I say." | =========================================================================== -- Geoffrey Welsh - via FidoNet node 1:221/162 UUCP: ...!watmath!isishq!171!izot Internet: izot@f171.n221.z1.FIDONET.ORG
jbh@mibte.UUCP (James Harvey) (01/22/89)
In article <502@csd4.milw.wisc.edu>, jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) writes: > In article <5745@cbmvax.UUCP> fred@cbmvax.UUCP (Fred Bowen) writes: >>The SuperPET bank switching is done through a register located at $EFFC, >>into which you place the bank number (0-15). There are 16 4K RAM banks which >>which appear in memory at $9000-$9FFF. There are other RAM and ROM expansion >>cartridges which appear at $A000. > > The original question was re: 8096, not re: SuperPET....! > : Well, I found the book on the PET 64K memory expansion. This is Part Number 324008, I assume it is the same board as in an official 8096 (Was there an official 8096?). I quote (with apologys to CBM): Expansion memory can be mapped into main memory addresses $8000 through $FFFF. Only 2 of the 16K expansion blocks can reside in main memory at one time. This provides an additional 32 K bytes of memory to the user. Selection of the expansion blocks is by bits 2 and 3 of the expansion memory control register. Each 16K block has a 16K alternate that can be selected by bits 2 and 3 of the control register. Main memory addresses $8000 through $BFFF can only be mapped by expansion blocks 0 or 1. Main memory addresses $C000 through $FFFF can only be mapped by expansion blocks 2 or 3. < there is a drawing showing four 16K blocks of expansion memory, zero and one pointing to addresses $8000 to $BFFF, two and three pointing to $C000 to $FFFF. > Control of the expansion memory is through a memory control register on the Expansion Memory Board located at $FFF0. The memory control register provides selection of 16K blocks, write protection, enabling the expansion memory, I/O peek through and Screen peek through. Because the memory control register is write only, a copy should be kept in the lower 32k of main memory. < there is a drawing depicting the memory control register Bit does ------- ----- 0 Write Protect $8000 - $BFFF on expansion board (if 1) 1 Write Protect $C000 - $FFFF on expansion board (if 1) 2 block select (see table below) 3 block select (see table below) 4 Reserved 5 Screen Peek Through $8000 - $8FFF (if 1) 6 I/O Peek Through $E800 - $EFFF (if 1) 7 Enable (if 1, power up defaults to zero) The block map is drawn as follows Bits 2 and 3 Blocks ------------- ------ 0,0 2 and 0 0,1 2 and 1 1,0 3 and 0 1,1 3 and 1 I/O handling I/O in the 8032 consists of the following five devices 1. a 6520 PIA at $E810 2. a 6520 PIA at $E820 3. a 6522 PIA at $E840 4. a CRT controller at $E880 5. Screen memory at $8000 through $87FF j These may be accessed in two ways. First is to simply switch out the expansion memory and restore main memory. This may be already accomplished by the memory manager software when a CBM I/O routine is called. Second way (necessary when a RAM loaded application program accesses I/O) uses the I/O peek through feature. Bit 6 of the control register enables I/O peek through. Accessing screen memory is accomplished in the same way as accessing the other IO devices. When accessed, screen memory is seen as 25 lines of 80 columns. The data is stored row-wise as sequential bytes. The CRT circuitry cannot display out of the expansion ram. A suggested memory manager function is to page whole screen fulls of data out of the expansion ram. Interrupt Processing The 6502 micro processor is designed for a simple system architecture in which the lower 32 K of the address space is RAM and the upper 32K is ROM. This allows the microprocessor to fetch the starting address of the first instruction out of ROM upon reset. The result is that three hardware vectors are stored in addresses $FFFA - $FFFF. The memory manager must accomplish the following functions. 1. Ensure that there is a valid address at each ROM address in the two 16K expansion blocks that are active. The only exception is if interrupts are disabled by a SEI instruction executed before bit 7 is set to a 1. 2. To avoid being interrupted when changing a vector execute a SEI. 3. The ROM interrupt vectors in the CBM point to routines in ROM which are not accessible when the expansion memory is selected. For that reason, the memory manager should a) set the vectors to point at at a routine that switches to main memory mode, b) call the interrupt service routine, and c) restore the expansion memory mode. End of quotes. > >>speed serial line. A standard RS232 connector is included. I don't know of >>any IEEE-RS232 interfaces, but I do know IEEE-Centronics interfaces are still >>available. > > Um, Fred, where? > If you are REALLY desparate, I think Black Box has one for $200-$300. > -- > jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu Joe Greco at FidoNet 1:154/200 > USnail: 9905 W Montana Ave PunterNet Node 30 or 31 > West Allis, WI 53227-3329 "These aren't anybody's opinions." > Voice: 414/321-6184 Data: 414/321-9287 (Happy Hacker's BBS) -- Jim Harvey | "Ask not for whom the bell Michigan Bell Telephone | tolls and you will only pay 29777 Telegraph | Station-to-Station rates." Southfield, Mich. 48034 | ulysses!gamma!mibte!jbh
izot@f171.n221.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Geoffrey Welsh) (01/23/89)
> From: sjk@utastro.UUCP (Scot Kleinman) > Message-ID: <3551@utastro.UUCP> > > All this talk about the old PET's has made me realize I need to contact > TPUG. How can I do this? TPUG 5344 Yonge Street, Suite 116 Toronto, Ontario M2N 6M2 (416)733-2933 voice: noon - 5 PM weekdays BBS for members at other times Please note that the address above is a box number; TPUG's office has recently moved and they felt that publishing a box number would be the best way to avoid confusion. =========================================================================== Internet: Geoffrey.Welsh@f171.n221.z1.fidonet.org | 66 Mooregate Crescent Usenet: watmath!isishq!izot | Suite 602 FidoNet: Geoffrey Welsh on 1:221/171 | Kitchener, Ontario PunterNet: 7/Geoffrey Welsh | N2M 5E6 CANADA BBS: (519) 742-8939 24h 7d 300/1200/2400bps | (519) 741-9553 =========================================================================== | "I don't need a disclaimer. No one pays any attention to what I say." | =========================================================================== -- Geoffrey Welsh - via FidoNet node 1:221/162 UUCP: ...!watmath!isishq!171!izot Internet: izot@f171.n221.z1.FIDONET.ORG
izot@f171.n221.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Geoffrey Welsh) (01/23/89)
> From: jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) > Message-ID: <502@csd4.milw.wisc.edu> > > In article <5745@cbmvax.UUCP> fred@cbmvax.UUCP (Fred Bowen) writes: > >The SuperPET has two built-in ACIA's, a 6551 at location $EFF0 and a 6850 > at > >location $EFF4. The 6551 is used for RS-232 I/O, the 6850 was simply a > > Open wide, Betty.... opens SuperPET. I don't see any 6850. I do see > a 6551 and support circuitry. I also don't see any 6850 in the > service / technical manuals (at least on the Super board itself). > Unless it's disguised on the 8032 motherboard, I still don't see any > 6850. Dare I contradict Fred? (Bv>) The SuperPET has EITHER a 6850 OR a 6551 in it. The early, three-board (four-switch) SuperPETs had the 6850 in them, but the late two-board (two-switch) versions had a 6551 (it requires far less support circuitry). The addresses of the ACIAs were probably changed to prevent software from writing 6850 commands to 6551 control ports. The SuperPET "system overview" (the small grey book) should give some info on the extra hardware. > Which brings up another question. Is there ANY 6502 mode support for > the 6551? None at all. Remove the combo board and you have an 8032... nothing more. The extra hardware was designed with the intention that the 6502 would completely ignore it (although some programs like PaperClip Expanded took advantage of the extra RAM). > I've managed to get some > marginally useful SuperPET terminals (6809 and 6502) but they croak > when scrolling screen at 2400 or 9600 baud. I belive that's because the ACIA was connected to the IRQ line (or none at all), and the scroll routines SEI (or don't poll the ACIA)... > What I'd like to see is device drivers, Kernal style, to support it. > With a good input buffer, a good output buffer.... (is this starting > to sound like the Plus/4?) Eventually I'd like to add an ACIA to one > of my 64's and be able to talk with my Courier 2400e at 9600 baud. Well, since I hope to have a SuperPET soon, I'll probably write something for it in 6809. There exists a SuperPET terminal called DYTTY, written by Dylan Yolles (a Toronto BBS hanger-out back when we pre-C64 dinosaurs toughed it out on RCP/M and PETBBS systems). I will also see if I can find that. On the other hand, there's not much point talking to a 2400MNP modem any faster than 4800 (which my routines, which you have seen, should achieve). I have also come up with an approach that SHOULD allow a C64 to speak 9600 and listen at 960 with the aid of RTS/CTS handshaking (which the Courier 2400e obeys, if configured to do so). I have discussed the timing aspect with the techies at Telebit Technologies and, if the USR has similar timing, the concept should work there, too. >"These aren't anybody's opinions." Do you really think so? (Bv>) =========================================================================== Internet: Geoffrey.Welsh@f171.n221.z1.fidonet.org | 66 Mooregate Crescent Usenet: watmath!isishq!izot | Suite 602 FidoNet: Geoffrey Welsh on 1:221/171 | Kitchener, Ontario PunterNet: 7/Geoffrey Welsh | N2M 5E6 CANADA BBS: (519) 742-8939 24h 7d 300/1200/2400bps | (519) 741-9553 =========================================================================== | "I don't need a disclaimer. No one pays any attention to what I say." | =========================================================================== -- Geoffrey Welsh - via FidoNet node 1:221/162 UUCP: ...!watmath!isishq!171!izot Internet: izot@f171.n221.z1.FIDONET.ORG
fred@cbmvax.UUCP (Fred Bowen) (01/24/89)
In article <502@csd4.milw.wisc.edu> jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) writes: >In article <5745@cbmvax.UUCP> fred@cbmvax.UUCP (Fred Bowen) writes: > >The original question was re: 8096, not re: SuperPET....! Yes, I know- I was responding to subsequent information. I had a SuperPET manual handy but not an 8096 manual. I have since found my 8096 manual, but someone has already posted the information you wanted so I will leave it at that... >>The SuperPET has two built-in ACIA's, a 6551 at location $EFF0 and a 6850 at >Open wide, Betty.... opens SuperPET. I don't see any 6850. I do see >a 6551 and support circuitry. I also don't see any 6850 in the >service / technical manuals (at least on the Super board itself). But that's what the SuperPET System Manual says- I was curious myself but neglected to hunt down a system and look before posting. I don't see one either, so I must conclude the Motorola ACIA was deleted from the design. I do not have any history files on the Waterloo board, so I cannot explain the discrepancy. Sorry. >> [...] I do know IEEE-Centronics interfaces are still available. >Um, Fred, where? CBUG, in their latest news letter, lists a CBM-IEEE to Centronics adaptor board (6400 type) and connector changer. The setup costs $50 (US) plus $2 shipping. I cannot swear it will work in your case but I can't see why it wouldn't. CBUG, 4102 N.Odell, Noridge, Il., 60634 or call 312-456-8720 between 7PM and 11PM CST. An old Skyles catalog I have lists two IEEE to RS232 adaptors- one called SADI (expensive) and a cheaper one called TNW-1000. A TNW-2000 interface claimed to be bi-directional. >Is there ANY 6502 mode support for the 6551? I have something called MTERM which does VT52/VT100 emulation. I don't know if it's PD or not, nor do I recall how well it handled higher baud rates. I used it to upload SEQ files to the VAX on rare occasions. I should mention the SuperPET did support the 6551- a communication routine was accessed by giving the TALK command from the Waterloo microEditor. It could be configured for data rates up to 9600. Refering again to my old Skyles catalog, there are several terminal programs mentioned. Perhaps they are still available. -- -- Fred Bowen uucp: {uunet|rutgers|pyramid}!cbmvax!fred arpa: cbmvax!fred@uunet.uu.net tele: 215 431-9100 Commodore Electronics, Ltd., 1200 Wilson Drive, West Chester, PA, 19380
jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) (01/24/89)
In article <1286.23DA03BD@isishq.FIDONET.ORG> izot@f171.n221.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Geoffrey Welsh) writes: > > > From: jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) {munch .. crunch .. chomp .. burp - Fred's message eaten} > > Open wide, Betty.... opens SuperPET. I don't see any 6850. I do see > > a 6551 and support circuitry. I also don't see any 6850 in the > > service / technical manuals (at least on the Super board itself). > > Unless it's disguised on the 8032 motherboard, I still don't see any > > 6850. > > Dare I contradict Fred? (Bv>) Of course. hehe > The SuperPET has EITHER a 6850 OR a 6551 in it. The early, three-board >(four-switch) SuperPETs had the 6850 in them, but the late two-board >(two-switch) versions had a 6551 (it requires far less support circuitry). The >addresses of the ACIAs were probably changed to prevent software from writing >6850 commands to 6551 control ports. Gee, I must have an incomplete version of the tech manual (quite possible). I never did understand why anyone would want to use a 6850, it seems to be quite like bashing your head against a hardware wall. > The SuperPET "system overview" (the small grey book) should give some info >on the extra hardware. But not a lot. I've gotten more info by tracing things out on the pcb. > > Which brings up another question. Is there ANY 6502 mode support for > > the 6551? > > None at all. Remove the combo board and you have an 8032... nothing more. >The extra hardware was designed with the intention that the 6502 would >completely ignore it (although some programs like PaperClip Expanded took >advantage of the extra RAM). Well, I understood that (I didn't mean ROM support). I was wondering if anybody had written ANY drivers for it, perhaps something I could get source code for and perhaps something that worked well (maybe I/O buffering, etc). And of course the 6502 doesn't completely ignore it.... Commodore has repeatedly proved that they cannot determine how to accomplish such a feat (witness the c64 emulator in the 128) B^) Just friendly teasing, Fred! > > I've managed to get some > > marginally useful SuperPET terminals (6809 and 6502) but they croak > > when scrolling screen at 2400 or 9600 baud. > > I belive that's because the ACIA was connected to the IRQ line (or none at >all), and the scroll routines SEI (or don't poll the ACIA)... IRQ, yes. Well, even if the scroll routines DO SEI, I can always port my universal terminal-screen driver to the SuperPET. However, that still leaves the problem of buffering. Characters will be lost while that's doing screen work. > > What I'd like to see is device drivers, Kernal style, to support it. > > With a good input buffer, a good output buffer.... (is this starting > > to sound like the Plus/4?) Eventually I'd like to add an ACIA to one > > of my 64's and be able to talk with my Courier 2400e at 9600 baud. > > Well, since I hope to have a SuperPET soon, I'll probably write something >for it in 6809. There exists a SuperPET terminal called DYTTY, written by >Dylan Yolles (a Toronto BBS hanger-out back when we pre-C64 dinosaurs toughed >it out on RCP/M and PETBBS systems). I will also see if I can find that. No! No! Not 6809... please. I haven't been able to get my hands on a copy of DYTTY, so if you can find one it would be much appreciated. > On the other hand, there's not much point talking to a 2400MNP modem any >faster than 4800 (which my routines, which you have seen, should achieve). I >have also come up with an approach that SHOULD allow a C64 to speak 9600 and >listen at 960 with the aid of RTS/CTS handshaking (which the Courier 2400e >obeys, if configured to do so). I have discussed the timing aspect with the >techies at Telebit Technologies and, if the USR has similar timing, the >concept should work there, too. Well, I'd use 9600 "just on principle" (the faster the modem help menus come up, the less inclined I am to reach for a manual). I have not seen your routines, unless you mean FASTERM, which does manage 2400 but not anything faster. At some point, I'm still going to need the capability for fairly-high-speed transmission. I'm sure your code works for many applications, but it isn't directly useful to me. (besides, I still want to see Kermit run at 2400... or 9600... fat chance, even with my B.I.-80) > >"These aren't anybody's opinions." > > Do you really think so? (Bv>) > >| "I don't need a disclaimer. No one pays any attention to what I say." | > Which is worse? B^) Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: Another info request for old CBM computers Summary: Expires: References: <1286.23DA03BD@isishq.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: Reply-To: jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: UW-Milwaukee Home for Out-of-date 8 bit Hackers Keywords: -- jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu Joe Greco at FidoNet 1:154/200 USnail: 9905 W Montana Ave PunterNet Node 30 or 31 West Allis, WI 53227-3329 "These aren't anybody's opinions." Voice: 414/321-6184 Data: 414/321-9287 (Happy Hacker's BBS)
jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) (01/24/89)
In article <5759@cbmvax.UUCP> fred@cbmvax.UUCP (Fred Bowen) writes: >In article <502@csd4.milw.wisc.edu> jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) writes: > An old Skyles catalog I have lists two IEEE to RS232 adaptors- one > called SADI (expensive) and a cheaper one called TNW-1000. A TNW-2000 > interface claimed to be bi-directional. I've talked to someone who claims to be using a TNW-2000. It is. > I have something called MTERM which does VT52/VT100 emulation. I > don't know if it's PD or not, nor do I recall how well it handled > higher baud rates. I used it to upload SEQ files to the VAX on rare > occasions. I should mention the SuperPET did support the 6551- a > communication routine was accessed by giving the TALK command from the > Waterloo microEditor. It could be configured for data rates up to 9600. The 6809 support for the SuperPET was shaky at best. There is a real problem with scrolling the screen and receiving data. Also, the mE's "talk" command is HALF DUPLEX. Makes it just about useless. I have access to another microEditor ("BEDIT" I believe) which had a better communications routine and several 6809 miniterminals, but all of them have the same problems. I would kill or die for a VT100 emulator on my SuperPET that worked at 2400 baud. (love at first sight!) ;-) Have a good one... -- jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu Joe Greco at FidoNet 1:154/200 USnail: 9905 W Montana Ave PunterNet Node 30 or 31 West Allis, WI 53227-3329 "These aren't anybody's opinions." Voice: 414/321-6184 Data: 414/321-9287 (Happy Hacker's BBS)
izot@f171.n221.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Geoffrey Welsh) (01/25/89)
> From: jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) > Message-ID: <527@csd4.milw.wisc.edu> > > No! No! Not 6809... please. I haven't been able to get my hands on a > copy of DYTTY, so if you can find one it would be much appreciated. I have no idea why you don't like 6809... it's like 6502's big brother and (what I like most about it) it's just as fast as 6502 (i.e. machine cyles per instruction, by which standard the 8086 and 68000 family look poor in comparison). It offers 16-bit accumulator, X and Y, system & user stacks (not limited to 256 bytes), direct page (relocatable zero page, emulated by the C128's 8502/MMU), 8-by-8 bit multiply, etc... > Well, I'd use 9600 "just on principle" (the faster the modem help > menus come up, the less inclined I am to reach for a manual). By the time you compare 4800 to 9600, you have to ask yourself (1) can the display routines really keep up to 9600? (2) How much are they slowed down by the 9600 interrupts/second as compared to the 4800 interrupt/second? > I have not seen your routines, unless you mean FASTERM, which does > manage 2400 but not anything faster. I managed C1 and XMODEM transfers (error-free) at 4800 bps using that code. A 2-MHz C128 port of the code runs a USRobotics HST at 9600. > (besides, I still want to see Kermit run at 2400... or 9600... Kermit, like and all half-duplex protocols, profits less and less from each succeding increase in baud rate. XMODEM, for instance, only achieves 400 bytes/second transfer rate on an 11,600 bps data carrier. YMODEM improves that to 700 bytes/sec by increasing block size from 128 bytes to 1K. Kermit's block size is usually 92 bytes, meaning that its throughput would be even worse than XMODEM's. =========================================================================== Internet: Geoffrey.Welsh@f171.n221.z1.fidonet.org | 66 Mooregate Crescent Usenet: watmath!isishq!izot | Suite 602 FidoNet: Geoffrey Welsh on 1:221/171 | Kitchener, Ontario PunterNet: 7/Geoffrey Welsh | N2M 5E6 CANADA BBS: (519) 742-8939 24h 7d 300/1200/2400bps | (519) 741-9553 =========================================================================== | "I don't need a disclaimer. No one pays any attention to what I say." | =========================================================================== -- Geoffrey Welsh - via FidoNet node 1:221/162 UUCP: ...!watmath!isishq!171!izot Internet: izot@f171.n221.z1.FIDONET.ORG
jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) (01/27/89)
In comp.sys.cbm article <1347.23DEB744@isishq.FIDONET.ORG>, izot@f171.n221.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Geoffrey Welsh) wrote: ] I have no idea why you don't like 6809... it's like 6502's big brother ]and (what I like most about it) it's just as fast as 6502 (i.e. machine cyles ]per instruction, by which standard the 8086 and 68000 family look poor in ]comparison). It offers 16-bit accumulator, X and Y, system & user stacks (not ]limited to 256 bytes), direct page (relocatable zero page, emulated by the ]C128's 8502/MMU), 8-by-8 bit multiply, etc... 6809 isn't easily portable to the c64. Besides, I don't feel like trying to learn yet another processor. (And I have all my VITAL <grin> programming utilities on the 64, too!) ] > Well, I'd use 9600 "just on principle" (the faster the modem help ] > menus come up, the less inclined I am to reach for a manual). ] ] By the time you compare 4800 to 9600, you have to ask yourself (1) can the ]display routines really keep up to 9600? (2) How much are they slowed down by ]the 9600 interrupts/second as compared to the 4800 interrupt/second? My original HBBS display routines were timed at something like 1120cps. Come on, you can SEE the difference between 4800 and 9600. At 9600, while it may not be able to display AT that speed, it will at least be going as fast as it can. :-) ] > I have not seen your routines, unless you mean FASTERM, which does ] > manage 2400 but not anything faster. ] ] I managed C1 and XMODEM transfers (error-free) at 4800 bps using that code. ]A 2-MHz C128 port of the code runs a USRobotics HST at 9600. Didn't work for me. Of course that doesn't mean it's not so, it might just mean that my clock speed is a tad off. > > (besides, I still want to see Kermit run at 2400... or 9600... > > Kermit, like and all half-duplex protocols, profits less and less from each >succeding increase in baud rate. XMODEM, for instance, only achieves 400 >bytes/second transfer rate on an 11,600 bps data carrier. YMODEM improves that >to 700 bytes/sec by increasing block size from 128 bytes to 1K. Kermit's block >size is usually 92 bytes, meaning that its throughput would be even worse than >XMODEM's. I meant c64kermit2.2.... would like to have a VT100 emulator running at 2400. I keep forgetting and referring to it simply as "Kermit" (sorry). hehehehe -- jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu Joe Greco at FidoNet 1:154/200 USnail: 9905 W Montana Ave PunterNet Node 30 or 31 West Allis, WI 53227-3329 "These aren't anybody's opinions." Voice: 414/321-6184 Data: 414/321-9287 (Happy Hacker's BBS)
will@dunkirk.DKK (Jim Will) (01/28/89)
In article <533@csd4.milw.wisc.edu> jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) writes: >I would kill or die for a VT100 emulator on my SuperPET that worked at >2400 baud. (love at first sight!) ;-) > I once had 8 SuperPET's as terminals on this MicroVAX II. The ports were set at 2400 baud, but worked at higher speeds. My students used vi with no problems. Jim
jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) (01/28/89)
In comp.sys.cbm article <119@dunkirk.DKK>, will@dunkirk.UUCP (Jim Will) wrote:
]In article <533@csd4.milw.wisc.edu> jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) writes:
]>I would kill or die for a VT100 emulator on my SuperPET that worked at
]>2400 baud. (love at first sight!) ;-)
]>
]
]I once had 8 SuperPET's as terminals on this MicroVAX II. The ports were
]set at 2400 baud, but worked at higher speeds. My students used vi with
]no problems.
]
] Jim
Using what software on the SPET's? The microEditor TALK command
stinks. Besides, I use Emacs.... never learned VI.
:-) Thanks...
--
jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu Joe Greco at FidoNet 1:154/200
USnail: 9905 W Montana Ave PunterNet Node 30 or 31
West Allis, WI 53227-3329 "These aren't anybody's opinions."
Voice: 414/321-6184 Data: 414/321-9287 (Happy Hacker's BBS)will@dunkirk.DKK (Jim Will) (01/28/89)
In article <620@csd4.milw.wisc.edu> jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) writes: . >]I once had 8 SuperPET's as terminals on this MicroVAX II. The ports were > >Using what software on the SPET's? The microEditor TALK command > The software was Petcom 1.2 by PhD Associates. Has anyone seen a 6809 emulator for an AMIGA? I would like to use some of those Waterloo languages on it. I am also looking for a way to use a 1541 on an old PET. The reason is because I would like my students to take them home and use them and I don't have enough IEEE drives.(I had a Muppet Lab with only one 9090.) Jim
jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) (01/29/89)
In comp.sys.cbm article <121@dunkirk.DKK>, will@dunkirk.UUCP (Jim Will) wrote: >In article <620@csd4.milw.wisc.edu> jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Joe Greco) writes: >>Using what software on the SPET's? The microEditor TALK command >> >The software was Petcom 1.2 by PhD Associates. Probably out of business. :-( Just my luck. >Has anyone seen a 6809 emulator for an AMIGA? I would like >to use some of those Waterloo languages on it. I would think it would be relatively easy to make a 6809 emulator. However, I would think that the emulation of SuperPET facilities would be more difficult. >I am also looking for a way to use a 1541 on an old PET. The reason is Didn't Skyles once have a gizmo to do that? That would be ideal. However, I don't think any of that stuff is available any more, except perhaps used. But asking never hurt. Skyles Electric Works.... . JG -- jgreco@csd4.milw.wisc.edu Joe Greco at FidoNet 1:154/200 USnail: 9905 W Montana Ave PunterNet Node 30 or 31 West Allis, WI 53227-3329 "These aren't anybody's opinions." Voice: 414/321-6184 Data: 414/321-9287 (Happy Hacker's BBS)
izot@f171.n221.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Geoffrey Welsh) (01/30/89)
> From: will@dunkirk.DKK (Jim Will) > Message-ID: <121@dunkirk.DKK> > Has anyone seen a 6809 emulator for an AMIGA? I would like > to use some of those Waterloo languages on it. The languages are compiled from WSL (Waterloo Systems Language) and I know that there is a WSL cross-assembler/linker for the 68000. I do not know if these will work well with the Amiga library, though. If you like, I can get & post the address of WatCom (the company that is selling those languages now; I don't know why it was transferred away from Waterloo MicroSystems), but discussion of Amiga things belongs in comp.sys.amiga... =========================================================================== Internet: Geoffrey.Welsh@f171.n221.z1.fidonet.org | 66 Mooregate Crescent Usenet: watmath!isishq!izot | Suite 602 FidoNet: Geoffrey Welsh on 1:221/171 | Kitchener, Ontario PunterNet: 7/Geoffrey Welsh | N2M 5E6 CANADA BBS: (519) 742-8939 24h 7d 300/1200/2400bps | (519) 741-9553 =========================================================================== | "I don't need a disclaimer. No one pays any attention to what I say." | =========================================================================== -- Geoffrey Welsh - via FidoNet node 1:221/162 UUCP: ...!watmath!isishq!171!izot Internet: izot@f171.n221.z1.FIDONET.ORG
fred@cbmvax.UUCP (Fred Bowen) (01/31/89)
In article <121@dunkirk.DKK> will@dunkirk.UUCP (Jim Will) writes: >I am also looking for a way to use a 1541 on an old PET. The reason is >because I would like my students to take them home and use them and I >don't have enough IEEE drives.(I had a Muppet Lab with only one 9090.) There is an interface for B-series machines to the CBM serial bus (supports fast bus for 1571 & 1581 drives), but this is not compatible with the PET series of computers. I'll speak to its designers to find out what it would require to adapt to the PET/8032- I don't think it would be too difficult to do. I don't know of any other interface to do what you want. -- Fred Bowen uucp: {uunet|rutgers|pyramid}!cbmvax!fred arpa: cbmvax!fred@uunet.uu.net tele: 215 431-9100 Commodore Electronics, Ltd., 1200 Wilson Drive, West Chester, PA, 19380