jep@fantasci.UUCP (Joseph E Poplawski) (01/30/89)
Hello. I have formed a mailing list that may be of interest to some of you. Here is the official description that has been sent in to the list coordinator: Purpose: a mailing list for the discussion of designing software for the Commodore 64 and 128 for various purposes, such as accessing usenet and uucp mail. Other possible topics of discussion can include, designing or porting a *NIX type operating system to the Commodores, designing soft ware to connect to other networks such a fidonet, etc. The list will be sent out about once every two weeks or even sooner depending on the traffic involved. At the end of this article, is a copy of the first mailing that went out last week. Right now there are only about 5 people on the list, so if you are interested, please join. I will moderate the list and send it out in digest form after enough submissions come in or about every two weeks, which ever comes first. Please send your submissions to one of the following addresses: comix@fantasci.UUCP ...!rutgers!rochester!moscom!telesci!fantasci!comix and all administrivia and requests for inclusion to: comix-request@fantasci.UUCP ...!rutgers!rochester!moscom!telesci!fantasci!comix-request -Jo Poplawski ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Joseph E Poplawski (Jo) US Mail: 1621 Jackson Street | | Cinnaminson NJ 08077 | | UUCP:..!rutgers!rochester!moscom!telesci!fantasci!jep | | ..!princeton!telesci!fantasci!jep | | ..!pyrnj!telesci!fantasci!jep Phone: +1 609 786-8099 home | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COMIX Mailing List Volume 01 - Issue 01 January 20, 1989 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Purpose: a mailing list for the discussion of designing software for the Commodore 64 and 128 for various purposes, such as accessing usenet and uucp mail. Other possible topics of discussion can include, designing or porting a *NIX type operating system to the Commodores, designing soft ware to connect to other networks such a fidonet, etc. The list will be sent out about once every two weeks or even sooner depending on the traffic involved. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please send all requests for inclusion or other administrivia to: comix-request@fantasci.UUCP And all submissions to: comix@fantasci.UUCP rutgers!rochester!moscom!telesci!fantasci!comix ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: att!mtgzz!bjh (BJ) Subject: C Power & UNIX Add me to your mailing list. ---------- From: pyrnj!princeton!gatech!dcatla!sunb!mclek (Larry E. Kollar) Subject: Please add me to the mailing list I'm interested in seeing what this group can come up with -- maybe I can even help out. My opinion is that creating a full multitasking Unix-style clone for the C128 is more trouble than its worth -- especially given the limited ("only" 128K) RAM and disk space that most people have. (I'll happily admit I'm wrong if someone shows me I am.) On the other hand, how about something like OS9? I'll admit I've never seen it, but CoCo owners seem happy with it -- perhaps we could clone that instead. As far as UUCP/UUPC goes, an older hacker friend suggests that it might be possible -- written in machine language. I don't know about you, but I don't relish the thought of maintaining roughly 30,000 lines of 6502 machine code, given the limited capabilites of most assemblers. How about this for an OS/networking system? - compact task-switching kernal - standard set of utilities to fit on a 1541 (or 1571, if too big -- I'm just trying to keep this project within reach of the average 128 person who doesn't have a hard drive) - single-tasking default, multi-tasking with RAM cartridge - Amiga-style libraries (reduce disk access time for loading prgs) - LINKER! ONE THAT CAN PRUNE NON-USED LIBRARY CODE! - macro-assembler that works with the above - compiler? (now who wants to write a compiler? :-) Some code for a simple compiler called "foogol" exists for VAX-type machines; it's only 500 lines, so it might be possible to port it to Power-C (I tried long ago w/Abacus C, no luck -- I have Power-C now) & that might form the basis of a Comix compiler - networking software based on long-packet Kermit or Ymodem batch (1571 or 1581 owners only) -- with Unix equivalents for doing low-volume news or mail transfers (I think that a 128 w/1581 could handle a mail feed & a handful of SMALL newsgroups) - supports at least 4 drives - graphics library, both 40 & 80 column modes - generic input device support (let users choose mouse or joystick) ala GEOS - decent sequential text editor - support for memory bank-switching (one of the hardest parts of programming a 128, IMHO) - shell with simplified job control ala csh (while windowing might be possible on the 128 -- see GEOS -- I envision a more command-line oriented OS) These aren't in any particular order; I just threw them together. If this list has been around for longer than I thought (a couple of weeks), & I'm just reopening old discussion, I apologize & would appreciate seeing a list of what has been agreed on & what needs to be done. Larry Kollar ...!gatech!dcatla!mclek ---------- From: jep@fantasci.UUCP (Joseph E Poplawski) Subject: My ideas + All software should be written for the Commodore 64 and 128 native modes with all files created/used compatible between the two (except binaries). + The following programs should be written as part of the package: uuencode/decode compress/uncompress shar/unshar uucp mail interface usenet Pnews interface diff / patch (is this possible?) uucp-g protocol (see below) conversion program (see below) + The uucp-g protocol, would be the best one to use, though if this is not possible, we may be able to design a protocol or modify an existing protocol such as Xmodem and build a COMIX Shell Interface for the UNIX end of the connection which would then feed all the information to the appropriate programs as would happen using UUCP. + We should have a conversion program which will convert Commodore Basic program files to standard ascii for mailing, and then a program to convert them back. + The Pnews interface should be fairly easy to implement, though I do not see an RN interface as possible due to the lack of disk space with the Commodore Systems. A partial news feed could kill most peoples systems. + We should have a standard terminal public domain emulation program for the COMIX package. I would recommend we try Kermit-65 from Dr Evil Labs. + All the packages should support the following hardware: Drives: 1541, 1571, 1581, SFD-1001, 8050 Modems: 1670, Any Hayes compatible Memory: any memory expansion units + All the utilities should be menu driven. + All sources should be public domain and available to anyone who wishes to use the COMIX software. We should have a main archive that will hold all the official current releases to keep everyone up to date. All code should also be well commented and written in a language that many have access to such as: Commodore Basic 2.0 (64), 7.0 (128) Power-C by Spinnaker Super-C by Abacus Assembler (we should try to standardize an assembler) + A COMIX mailing list and mail archive server will be started and maintained on system fantasci. PO box for disk duplication by mail. + If there becomes enough interest, we could write software to start a COMIX network which could be a BBS that communicates with other COMIX sites, thus allowing mail to be sent back and forth and maybe a type of info network of our own. Other COMIX sites would be identified by a node name or number. So if a particular site does not have direct access to a regular UNIX mail server, one of the other machines could "gateway" the mail for that site. I would love to hear what everyone else (all 3 of you so far) thinks of these ideas so far. ---------- From: jep@fantasci.UUCP (Joseph E Poplawski) Subject: opinions In this issue, Larry E. Kollar writes: >My opinion is that creating a full multitasking Unix-style clone for the C128 >is more trouble than its worth -- especially given the limited ("only" 128K) >RAM and disk space that most people have. Isn't there a version of minix for CP/M? My impression was that most CP/M machines only had between 64 and 128K to begin with? (Am I incorrect?) >On the other hand, how about something like OS9? Does anyone know anything about OS9? Is it similar to UNIX? Would we be able to write uucp and mail for it to be compatible with UNIX? >As far as UUCP/UUPC goes, an older hacker friend suggests that it might be >possible -- written in machine language. I don't know about you, but I don't >relish the thought of maintaining roughly 30,000 lines of 6502 machine code, >given the limited capabilites of most assemblers. > - compiler? (now who wants to write a compiler? :-) Some code for a > simple compiler called "foogol" exists for VAX-type machines; it's > only 500 lines, so it might be possible to port it to Power-C (I > tried long ago w/Abacus C, no luck -- I have Power-C now) & that > might form the basis of a Comix compiler Is this "foogol" public domain? If so, maybe you may want to consider sending it to the list (I am going to be setting up a mail archive server for the list shortly when I find software for it) so others can try and port it also. > - networking software based on long-packet Kermit or Ymodem batch We could also use the Punter protocol since it was written for Commodore machines in the first place. I recently heard on the net, that there was a version for MsDos/UNIX written entirely in C. We could use this for the Commodore end and also write a Comix interface for the UNIX side that would receive the file, then unbundle it, and process it accordingly. > - shell with simplified job control ala csh (while windowing might > be possible on the 128 -- see GEOS -- I envision a more command-line > oriented OS) I also envision the same. I think if we made everything with pretty little windows and fancy graphics, that we would be sacrificing much needed speed and memory. >These aren't in any particular order; I just threw them together. If this >list has been around for longer than I thought (a couple of weeks), & I'm just >reopening old discussion, I apologize & would appreciate seeing a list of >what has been agreed on & what needs to be done. This is the first mailing altogether, so in a way, you have opened the first real discussion (with some excellent ideas I might add!). -Jo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *** End of COMIX Mailing *** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cygnus@wpi.wpi.edu (Marshall Robin) (02/04/89)
Could you please include me on the list? It wont let me mail to UUCP. so I have to let you know here. -- |BITNET: cygnus@wpi.bitnet | Better the pride that resides | This space | |Internet: cygnus@wpi.wpi.edu | In a citizen of the world | reserved | -------------------------------| Than the pride that divides | for future | | Bleah. | When a colorful rag is unfurled.| development|
kev@voder.UUCP (Kevin Hoskins) (02/13/89)
In article <404@fantasci.UUCP>, jep@fantasci.UUCP (Joseph E Poplawski) writes: > Hello. I have formed a mailing list that may be of interest to some of you. The mail that I tried to send to you bounced. I wanted to ask you if I could be included on the COMIX mailing list. Thank you, Kevin Hoskins
aliu@nunki.usc.edu (Alejandro Liu) (03/04/89)
>MUNCH< >MUNCH< >MUNCH< >MUNCH< >MUNCH< >MUNCH< >MUNCH< >MUNCH<
Is the Comix mailing list still active?
Could you please add me to the mailing list (if it is still active)?
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aliu@nunki.usc.edu (Alejandro Liu)
(Simple .signature, $CHEAP$)