doug.purdy@canremote.uucp (DOUG PURDY) (09/29/89)
Bought a program called Willow from Mindscape this spring for my
daughter Megan, who's 8. She doesn't like the shoot-'em-ups so she
usually asks for educational software.
But she often starts the program, then turns the machine off before it's
loaded or part way through the game. She finds the thing just spends too
much time loading things from the disk.
I can't fault Mindscape, they have a warning on the package that a fast
loader cartridge is recommended.
But I feel let down with this happening on our C128 with 1750 REU, 1571
and 1581 disk drives. How did it come to pass that this fast, powerful
machine can't run software any better than a 64k, 1541 combo?
I can't help but feel that a whole lot of people have "conspired" to
drop the ball here. Why is it so hard to include routines to take
advantage of the hardware available? Why aren't such routines widely
available and at low prices? Was everyone so busy writing advanced copy
programs they couldn't see the need for proper libraries of powerful
routines? Did they write them but hoard them instead of offering them
for sale?
Where are the real professional Commodore programmers? Why do many
programs feel like they were created by some first time amateur with
professional graphics tacked on as an afterthought?
With the 1581 available at such low prices, why is anything written
exclusively for the notoriously slow and expensive 1541? Why is Willow
too slow and awkward for a 640k machine with an 800k 1581 when the whole
thing is less than 500k? I can't see why it shouldn't be a dream on a
256k REU equipped C64!
A C64 programmer friend who's hot on the anti piracy issue feels fast
loader cartridges should be banned. But isn't it this ridiculous
situation that creates the need for them, making it impossible to buy a
REU, continuing the situation?
Is this what folks can expect for the Amiga? I get the impression Amiga
piracy is widespread and shareware limited. Aren't they going to end up
in the same place?
Doug Purdy - sysop Learning Experience - C128 support - (416) 665-3263
3/12/2400, 24hr, 7 days, GT netnode 053/012
Also - DOUGPURDY@CANREMOTE.UUCP // Punternet: 2/Doug Purdy
- CanConfMail/Smartnet: Geos/C64 or CP/M areas, Doug Purdy
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* Via ProDoor 3.1aR labc-2aa@web-3d.berkeley.edu (Greg Burrell) (10/03/89)
In article <89092920434743@masnet.uucp> doug.purdy@canremote.uucp (DOUG PURDY) writes: >But I feel let down with this happening on our C128 with 1750 REU, 1571 >and 1581 disk drives. How did it come to pass that this fast, powerful >machine can't run software any better than a 64k, 1541 combo? > I don't have a C128, but I do know that instead of trying to emulate the C64, the C128 actually just contains a whole C64 inside. One benefit is that this is 100% compatible, but unfortunately most programs cannot take advantage of the 128's extra memory and capabilities. When software companies publish a program, they strive to make it work on the largest number of machines and configurations - alas, this is often the plain-vanilla C64 without any extra memory. >Why is it so hard to include routines to take >advantage of the hardware available? Why aren't such routines widely >available and at low prices? Good question. Technically this is possible, but I guess that most software companies just don't want to bother. Perhaps this is tied to your next question. >Where are the real professional Commodore programmers? Why do many >programs feel like they were created by some first time amateur with >professional graphics tacked on as an afterthought? >With the 1581 available at such low prices, why is anything written >exclusively for the notoriously slow and expensive 1541? Why is Willow >too slow and awkward for a 640k machine with an 800k 1581 when the whole >thing is less than 500k? I can't see why it shouldn't be a dream on a >256k REU equipped C64! Because most of these programs were created by amateur programmers. Any competent professional programmer can make a lot more money for a lot less work by programming for some of the more advanced machines available today. The 1581 came quite a while after the 1541 and so there are a lot more 1541s than 1581s. Once again, software publishers are aiming for the largest possible base of potential buyers. (See my reply to question #1 above.) Willow is too slow and awkward because it doesn't make any use of the extra memory or faster processor of the C128. Also, the company probably don't figure there are enough REU equipped C64s out there to make it worth the extra effort. What this all basically boils down to is the fact that the C64 and C128 are older machines with outdated hardware. Now before everybody and his brother starts to flame, I believe that they are good machines for their time and price, but by today's standards they are out of date. Also, software for these machines is relatively inexpensive (compare a $30 C64 word processor to $200+ for IBM, Mac, etc). Most software companies and programmers just do not want to take the extra effort involved. Greg Greg Burrell labc-2aa@WEB.berkeley.edu Univ. Of California, Berkeley
seven@nuchat.UUCP (David Paulsen) (10/04/89)
doug.purdy@canremote.uucp (DOUG PURDY) writes: > >How did it come to pass that this fast, powerful >machine can't run software any better than a 64k, 1541 combo? Simple economics. Software publishers must target the lowest common denominator. Since your 128 is capable of running 64 software, and since there are a lot more 64s than 128s running around today, guess who gets targetted? >I can't help but feel that a whole lot of people have "conspired" to >drop the ball here. Why is it so hard to include routines to take >advantage of the hardware available? It's not any harder to write such routines, rather it's that darn economic thing again. It takes time to write 80-column screen drivers, ramdisk emulators, and fastloaders... valuable time that would be "better" spent on debugging and refinement. >Why aren't such routines widely available and at low prices? They SHOULD have been included in the ROMS, like the toolbox routines in the MacIntosh for all programmers to use. At the very least they should be on the back of the 1541 test/demo disk that comes with the drive. Commodore should make such a library of routines available free for the asking.... I agree. >Was everyone so busy writing advanced copy >programs they couldn't see the need for proper libraries of powerful >routines? Did they write them but hoard them instead of offering them >for sale? Hackers hack.. it's the nature of the beast. Strictly speaking it's not the Average Guy's place to create and maintain a library of public domain routines for everyone else to use. That would be nice, but most of the programming nightlife can't even document their own code. >Where are the real professional Commodore programmers? Why do many >programs feel like they were created by some first time amateur with >professional graphics tacked on as an afterthought? Surprise, surprise.. many of the Commodore packages out there ARE written by "professional" programmers. They professionally write their professional code on MS-DOS computers using something like Manx C, then download the compiled C code into the Commodore. Finally, they hire guys like me to take their swollen, ridiculous, inefficient downsized programs and make them look pretty on the Commodore. I recently dealt with a group of "professional" programmers who couldn't figure out why two 44K C modules wouldn't fit in the Commodore 128. They had no idea the 128 was a banked system, you see. Professional Commodore programmers are rare, but we still find work now and then. I've learned to program MS-DOS computers in self-defense, but when folks find out that my first love is the 8-bit scene they're often overjoyed. That's how I got my last two Commodore programming jobs, in fact.. by making contacts thru my clone jobs. >With the 1581 available at such low prices, why is anything written >exclusively for the notoriously slow and expensive 1541? Because there are literally millions of 1541 compatible drives, and MAYBE a few hundred thousand 1581's out there. In the IBM world 360K disks are considered old hat, yet most software packages still come in that format because they're the lowest common denominator. Besides, excellent 1541 clones can be had for $150, while the cheapest 1581 I've seen is $189... and the 1581 is just as slow as a 1541 when you plug it into a Commodore 64. Economics again. >Why is Willow >too slow and awkward for a 640k machine with an 800k 1581 when the whole >thing is less than 500k? I can't see why it shouldn't be a dream on a >256k REU equipped C64! I agree, mostly. However, if I booted a game and it decided to allocate my 512K ramdisk for its own purposes I'd be plenty steamed. I often keep my REU cram-packed with useful files. Losing them everytime I decided to play Willow would be a bitch. >A C64 programmer friend who's hot on the anti piracy issue feels fast >loader cartridges should be banned. How silly. Could you take a stab at explaining your friend's reasoning? >Is this what folks can expect for the Amiga? I get the impression Amiga >piracy is widespread and shareware limited. Aren't they going to end up >in the same place? Amiga piracy is probably wide spread; I wouldn't be surprised. However, the Amiga enjoys one of the most robust public domain library I have ever seen. Friends with Amigas have literally hundreds of disks full of PD utilities, games, movies, demos and neato hacks. Most IBM shareware I've seen is boring by comparison. Besides, piracy is rampant industry wide.. it cuts across all broundaries. Piracy is like speeding: everybody does it, nobody admits it and getting caught is pretty rare... but expensive. Don't get too stressed about things you have little control over. >Doug Purdy - sysop Learning Experience - C128 support - (416) 665-3263 > 3/12/2400, 24hr, 7 days, GT netnode 053/012 > > Also - DOUGPURDY@CANREMOTE.UUCP // Punternet: 2/Doug Purdy > - CanConfMail/Smartnet: Geos/C64 or CP/M areas, Doug Purdy -- David Paulsen ..uunet!nuchat!seven ||| The Curiosity Shop BBS, 713/488-7836 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The spirit is free / Where the wild things roam Next to the sea / The electric ocean [The Cult]