pwong@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Patrick Wong) (10/03/89)
Hi, netters: Recently, searching my stack of diskettes, I have found VIP term that I never use before. At this moment, I can't recall what version I have. (Can someone tell me what the latest version no. is ?) I tried it out and found it quite versatile to move from menu page to menu page. (What is the general opinion about the term program in POWERPACK II put out by RUN magazine ? Does it have a good vt100 emulation ? Perhaps I should have bought it at special show price while I was at Valley Forge) Back to VIP, one thing I would like to know is whether there is a version of VIP that uses the 1351 mouse instead of the joystick ? (Or, can I modify the program easily to achieve that ?) Another thing is that the program has an option for 2400 bps speed. But when I tried it on my C64, it did not seem to be able to do it (while CCGMS version 7 can surely can !). Any comment from the VIP term users ? Patrick Wong pcw@squid.tn.cornell.edu pwong@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu mo8j@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
bah@tippy.uucp (10/06/89)
As far as I know, VIP XL is the latest and last version of VIP. Also, 2400 baud is pretty difficult to run on a 64. I guess it is possible, but a 64 just is about at it's limit to run at 2400 baud. I would like to add, that even though I now have an Amiga and a 2400 baud modem running Online!, I still think VIP Term was the best and most versatile communcation program that I have ever seen. Bob Hahn tippy!bah@newton.physics.purdue.edu
jgreco@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Joe Greco) (10/06/89)
In comp.sys.cbm article <8984@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu>, pwong@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Patrick Wong) wrote: >Another thing is that the program has an option for 2400 bps speed. >But when I tried it on my C64, it did not seem to be able to do it >(while CCGMS version 7 can surely can !). Any comment from the >VIP term users ? I'm not a VIP Term user, but I'll tell you a few reasons it won't run at 2400. First, 2400 requires optimized RS232 drivers. VIP Term probably does not have these, so it would have some difficulty dealing with 2400 baud. The second major problem is that VIP Term is written to use a hi-res screen for text. This means that there is a LOT of overhead to manually draw each character on the hires screen. Add to this the time needed to do emulation, and you have a considerable draw on processor time to make the screen. CCGMS doesn't have to worry, since it does not do emulation and it does not have to work so hard to draw the screen. It's simply a matter of processor speed. Assume that receiving data at 2400 baud takes 40% of the processor time, and displaying incoming characters at 2400 baud takes 80% of the processor time. That means that you need 120% of the processor's time, just to handle incoming data! These figures aren't accurate, but serve only to illustrate the problem. -- jgreco@csd4.csd.uwm.edu Joe Greco at FidoNet 1:154/200 USnail: 9905 W Montana Ave PunterNet Node 30 or 31 West Allis, WI 53227-3329 "These aren't anybody's opinions." Voice: 414/321-6184 Data: 414/321-9287 (Happy Hacker's BBS)
rhebi@pnet02.gryphon.com (Roy Hebi) (10/11/89)
I just read the message saying that 2400 on the C64 with VIP is impossible.
Well, as I recall, I have been using the VIP for over two years now (or maybe
I have an old version). It does not support 2400 though it claims to. I
recently bought an IBM-PC, and decided to transfer about 3.5Megs of textfiles
that I have to the IBM, and I use VIP to do that. The VIP can send 2400 error
free, as far as the IBM had noticed...
Regarding taking up 120% of the processor time, well, I wrote a 80-columns
driver that will print CBM-ASCII or regular ASCII, which prints (if scrolling
is not needed) over 1200 chars per second. This means each char takes .00083
of a second to print. 2400 bps is 240 chars per second, which are approx. 4166
clock cycles per char. My 80-columns needs 2083 clock cycles. Now, if you add
these up and lkook at the execution times of the RS-232 routines, you'll see
that it is impossible. BUT!!! I also have a source code in 6502 ML for
enhanced RS232 routines which give good 2400. And their execution times are
such that I believe that 2400 and even full-ANSI emulation is possib le.
Leave E-Mail for more details.
Roy Hebi,
UUCP: {ames!elroy, <routing site>}!gryphon!pnet02!rhebi
INET: rhebi@pnet02.gryphon.comjgreco@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Joe Greco) (10/13/89)
In comp.sys.cbm article <20859@gryphon.COM>, rhebi@pnet02.gryphon.com (Roy Hebi) wrote: ]I just read the message saying that 2400 on the C64 with VIP is impossible. ]Well, as I recall, I have been using the VIP for over two years now (or maybe ]I have an old version). It does not support 2400 though it claims to. I ]recently bought an IBM-PC, and decided to transfer about 3.5Megs of textfiles ]that I have to the IBM, and I use VIP to do that. The VIP can send 2400 error ]free, as far as the IBM had noticed... Let's not get picky. VIP term cannot do a heck of a lot at 2400. File transmission is not only a one-way transmission, the 64 also does not need to do major screen updating. And file transfers hardly comprise the mainstream of terminal program use. Heck, I can write a program to transmit at 9600 baud. ] Regarding taking up 120% of the processor time, well, I wrote a 80-columns ]driver that will print CBM-ASCII or regular ASCII, which prints (if scrolling ]is not needed) over 1200 chars per second. This means each char takes .00083 ]of a second to print. 2400 bps is 240 chars per second, which are approx. 4166 ]clock cycles per char. My 80-columns needs 2083 clock cycles. Now, if you add ]these up and lkook at the execution times of the RS-232 routines, you'll see ]that it is impossible. BUT!!! I also have a source code in 6502 ML for ]enhanced RS232 routines which give good 2400. And their execution times are ]such that I believe that 2400 and even full-ANSI emulation is possib le. Everything is possible. As far as processing time goes, there are of course operations that do not take as much time as others. I seriously doubt that somebody using a terminal program would run into a situation where the screen rarely needed to be scrolled. For ANSI emulation, screen manipulation is a MAJOR function! This means that you had better take scrolling time into consideration. I actually prefer to use benchmarks that are scrolling-intensive, beyond what one might consider reasonable. This helps to ensure that there are not problems. VIP does not have the specialized drivers. Therefore, that is a null point. Even with the specialized drivers, the processor drag is severe. I've tried it. You have also failed to consider other operations. RS232 transmission takes time. Interrupt processing. ANSI emulation takes some time, too! You can't just print the incoming data stream. 2400 baud RS232 is certainly possible on the 64. I'm hesitant to claim that it is reliable, but it may even be so. However, I do not believe that a decent ANSI terminal emulation can be done in hi-res 80 columns at 2400 baud and be reliable. Either it will lose incoming data, be very sluggish, drop keystrokes, or all of the above. Now, if you are using an 80 column card, it's a slightly better forecast... and if you are using a 6551 ACIA, it is a pretty picture indeed. -- jgreco@csd4.csd.uwm.edu Joe Greco at FidoNet 1:154/200 USnail: 9905 W Montana Ave PunterNet Node 30 or 31 West Allis, WI 53227-3329 "These aren't anybody's opinions." Voice: 414/321-6184 Data: 414/321-9287 (Happy Hacker's BBS)