bhelf@athena.mit.edu (Bill Helfinstine) (10/25/90)
All right, folks, this is what it boils down to. Everyone is trashing their Commodores. This is the sad truth. The question is, is this the right thing to do? Do we all need to get 286 clones and learn WordPerfect? I know my Commodore isn't ready for the scrap heap yet. Is yours? Should it be? Just a question. Bill Helfinstine (bhelf@athena.mit.edu)
md41@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Marcus Dolengo) (10/25/90)
286 clones? yecch! :-) I'm upgrading to an Amiga mainly because i want/need speed, expandability and because i'm tired of being surrounded by Mac users here at columbia and I want a "Mac fighter" :-) seriously, my 128 could probably fill my needs well for a few more semesters but i like what the Amiga can do and thats why I'm going that route. I'm gonna keep my 128D until I can either get a good deal on it <damn, noone wants to buy a 1 year old 128 :( > or until it dies out. I use it mainly now to BBS though I plan to run a BBS off of it next year <if i can get that CMD drive> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o o | This Space For Rent Only Amiga!! // << md41@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu >> | Amerikkka's Most Wanted \\ // /> <\ | \X/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I think out actions _show_ what's in our hearts." Hobbes Who's the Mack...
hill@evax.arl.utexas.edu (Col. Ames and Pixel) (10/25/90)
In article <1990Oct25.033635.20290@athena.mit.edu> bhelf@athena.mit.edu (Bill Helfinstine) writes: > >All right, folks, this is what it boils down to. > >Everyone is trashing their Commodores. This is the sad truth. The question >is, is this the right thing to do? Do we all need to get 286 clones and learn >WordPerfect? I know my Commodore isn't ready for the scrap heap yet. Is >yours? Should it be? > > >Just a question. > >Bill Helfinstine (bhelf@athena.mit.edu) HECK NO!!! If you have the money for a 286 then you could afford a Amiga 500 or a 2000. Then get a copy of TheA64Package by Questronix. It is a rather nice C64 emulator. Much better than commercial ones and this fine piece of shareware is 30.00+SH that includes a hardware adapter that alows you to use 64 DD's and printers. Now it wont be fast as a 64 but if you gotta play MULE... ya gotta play MULE... If you want if I'll post some more just ask.. -- adam hill "I will tell you three things.." hill@evax.arl.utexas.edu Make Up Your Own Mind.. AMIGA! Amiga... Multimedia NOW!! 24 Bit Color(n.) Large waster of bandwidth. "Amiga walk with me ........"
prindle@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Frank Prindle) (10/25/90)
I have absolutely no intention of trashing my C128, C64, and SX-64. There is no motivation to fill my home with Amigae, Macs, SparcStations, or anything else I can ill afford when the C64 technology still manages to fulfill all my needs for both productivity (can you say "word-processing"), and general hardware/ software hacking. A simple example: just before the introduction of the C64, the most inexpensive VT100 compatible terminal would set you back $1000-$2000! Now that the age of telecommunications has arrived, literally millions of potential cheap terminals sit abandoned in attics while the Nintendo occupies the place of honor. No, I won't abandon over $2000 worth of Commodore equipment and software just for the Whiz-Bang-Nifftyness of something new. Frank Prindle Prindle@NADC.navy.mil
mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Marc Roussel) (10/25/90)
I've been finding everybody's responses to this thread rather
amusing. The general gist (so far) has been "get an Amiga". While the
Amiga is a nice machine, it's by no means the only choice. Furthermore,
which machine to buy depends largely on what you want to use it for.
Perhaps we could get a more intelligent discussion going if the original
poster would tell us what his intended uses are. There are a lot of
choices: PC's, Macs, Amiga's, even Atari ST's. The last three products
can emulate other hardware platforms if that's important to you. (Macs
can pretend to be PC's with software only, Amiga's can pretend to be
PC's with hardware, and Atari's can pretend to be either Macs or PC's
with hardware.) OS's may also be a consideration to you.
The original poster also mentioned buying a 286. If you need to
replace your Commodore now, this may be a good choice. They have
gotten to be almost unbelievably cheap. However if you're just poking around
and thinking of buying a machine later, why not make it much later? In the
last week or two, the news (the real news, not USENET) has been full of articles
on price cuts by the major manufacturers (COMPAQ, Apple, Zenith, and so
on). Between that and Intel's increasingly aggressive pricing of the
386SX, you might want to wait a few months. I think we have the makings
of a serious price war, especially with the economy turning rotten.
Marc R. Roussel
mroussel@alchemy.chem.utoronto.caarpepper@watmath.waterloo.edu (Adrian Pepper) (10/26/90)
In article <1990Oct25.033635.20290@athena.mit.edu> bhelf@athena.mit.edu (Bill Helfinstine) writes: > >All right, folks, this is what it boils down to. > >Everyone is trashing their Commodores. This is the sad truth. The question >is, is this the right thing to do? Do we all need to get 286 clones and learn >WordPerfect? I know my Commodore isn't ready for the scrap heap yet. Is >yours? Should it be? I myself wouldn't mind joining an organization to fight the domination of WordPerfect, which isn't. I'm keeping my Commodore stuff because its utility (fun) value is more than I could get for selling it. And occasionally it proves useful. I really have an attachment to the stuff, and have to make a conscious effort to avoid wasting too much time with it. Even an 8088 system, given a hard drive, gives a person more effective computing power than one had at the terminals of most time-sharing systems in the late 1970's. When I bought my Commodore 64 I was suffering under the misapprehension that home computers would always be inferior to the "real computers" I had learned about from 1975-1980. Multi-processing aside, this is not the case. And even multi-processing will be handled properly by $1000 computers with mainstream software, in at most five years, other things being equal. (Note, I now don't consider anything without a hard drive to be a computer.) The cost of reliable legitimate software, on the other hand. Why does every user have to pay for technical support they will probably never use, and junkmail they will just throw away? And of course, there are always Amigas. Technically superior, but without mainstream software support. And slightly expensive. And having trouble keeping up with new developments. But then, so's my brain. Just my opinions. Adrian.
kehoe@scotty.dccs.upenn.edu (Brendan Kehoe) (10/26/90)
Frank Prindle writes: > A simple example: just before the introduction of the C64, >the most inexpensive VT100 compatible terminal would set you back $1000-$2000! Hehe, just a few weeks ago we were cleaning out the old file cabinets, and we came across the original purchase request for the Vax 11/750 w/ other equipment that our school made back in 1983. The 11/750, with nothing but the CPU, cost over $80000 .. ONE vt102 cost over $1200. Man, oh man. Now it's a prop for a bookshelf. -- Brendan Kehoe | Soon: brendan@cs.widener.edu [ Sometime this week ... pray! ] For now: kehoe@scotty.dccs.upenn.edu | Also: brendan.kehoe@cyber.widener.edu "It's a distinctly non-trivial task to decompile a stripped, encrypted binary into something that can be understood." - Keith Bostic, on the Internet worm
sd05@terre.DMI.USherb.CA (Sylvain Tremblay / Eric Trepanier) (10/26/90)
Hello! Couldn't help myself. I had to share my opinion on this discussion. As far as I'm concerned, my C128D allows me to do practically everything a 8086 can do, and in many cases, I can do it even better with my machine. Ok, so it does not run *WINDOWS* or *MS DOS*. But seriously, have you ever tried Windows on something else than a 80386? It's just horrible. Even GEOS seems like a speed demon in comparison... Besides, with the proper software, (wich I have), it is very easy to make MSDOS <=> CBM file transfer. The telecommunication programs I have are excellent (The one I'm using right now is Kermit 64/128, wich is a great Public Domain VT102/KERMIT emulator.) There are also excellent databases, word processors, spreadsheets... If you're a programmer, there's a bundle of inexpensive programming software & documentation available out there. In many aspects, (graphics & audio) Commodore computers are far superior to IBM's 8088 & 8086. For example, did you know that you could easily get a 640 x 550 resolution (16 colors). That gives a 80 x 50 text display even better looking than that of the Amiga. Unfortunately, many of these oustanding features are barely used by software developers. Personnaly, I only got into serious programming a year ago. Since then, I have aquired a pretty good knowledge of ml programming. There are times when I see Amiga 3000's and 80386's and I admit I am tempted. But then I come home, sit dowm and turn on the C128, and I always find something new that makes me forget about other computers... I guess it sounds pretty nostalgic, but I just can't imagine ever getting rid of my old 128. Just wanted to let you know. What about you? -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------///------+ | Sylvain Tremblay INTERNET: sd05@terre.USherb.CA __ /// /| | | Eric Trepanier CIS: 71640,666 \\\/// # | | | Sherbrooke, Qc, Can TEL: (819) 820-0976 \XX/ _|_ |
md41@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Marcus Dolengo) (10/26/90)
are there any efforts to write a 128 emulator? dont wanna make most of these programs a waste..... and does the emulator allow the amiga to read 1581 disks? thanks ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o o | This Space For Rent Only Amiga!! // << md41@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu >> | Amerikkka's Most Wanted \\ // /> <\ | \X/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I think out actions _show_ what's in our hearts." Hobbes Who's the Mack...
c8923075@frey.nu.oz.au (Chris Baird) (10/26/90)
prindle@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Frank Prindle) writes: >... No, I won't abandon over $2000 worth of Commodore >equipment and software just for the Whiz-Bang-Nifftyness of something new. >Frank Prindle >Prindle@NADC.navy.mil Can anyone imagine a \computer industry\ (or any industry in fact), that doesn't exploit we consumers? It's more profitible to have your userbase upgrade every few years, hence the myth about computer obsolescence. With inventive programming, the 64 is capible of anything... (although I've yet to see a COBOL compiler; one advantage of stucking with the 64 :-) ) -- Chris Baird Undergrad BSc(Physics) @ Newcastle Uni (OZ!) C8923075@frey.nu.oz.au
treesh@ircsun1.helios.nd.edu (10/26/90)
If the systems is doing what you need it to do, then why change it? I love my Commodore 128 with the Lt Kernal Hard disk drive it runs right up there in speed with some of todays stuff. Where else are you going to get a machine for under $200.00 that can do full color grpahics, sound, built in basic, and a mega-ton of software? I use my C128 for telecommunications almost solely, but its good for a lot of other fun stuff! ctfm
arpepper@watmath.waterloo.edu (Adrian Pepper) (10/26/90)
In article <1990Oct26.052803.1297@frey.nu.oz.au> c8923075@frey.nu.oz.au (Chris Baird) writes: > > With inventive programming, the 64 is capible of anything... >(although I've yet to see a COBOL compiler; one advantage of stucking with >the 64 :-) ) > I saw a Cobol compiler for the 64. I even bought it. Several years ago I didn't feel as poor as I do now, and $50Cdn seemed worth it just to have it. Sort of as a joke. I don't think I've ever even run it. I'll try and remember to post the details sometime. Adrian.
rlb@cci632.UUCP (Dick Barnard) (10/27/90)
I am very happy with my C-64, which I bought in 1983. I use it to produce a monthly (postscript) newsletter for the Knights of Columbus council I belong to. My system includes: 1701 Commodore monitor 1541 " drive 1764 " RAM (expanded to 512K) 1532 " mouse 1670 " modem Epson Homewriter10 dot matrix printer GEOS operating system and applications, including geoPublish. I send my geoPublish produced newsletter to a remote HP laser printer at work. (I also have a couple of programs from Q-Link that allow me to create a postscript file for editing and transmission.)
xvj@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Sean Ahern) (10/29/90)
In article <1990Oct26.052803.1297@frey.nu.oz.au> c8923075@frey.nu.oz.au (Chris Baird) writes: > Can anyone imagine a \computer industry\ (or any industry in fact), >that doesn't exploit we consumers? It's more profitible to have your ^^ That's 'exploit us consumers'. ^^ -- "By the time you've sorted out a complicated idea into little steps that even a stupid machine can deal with, you've certainly learned something about it yourself." Douglas Adams "I hate Douglas Adams!!" Sean Ahern
klf1305@che_sun1.tamu.edu (Kelly L. Fergason) (10/29/90)
As one of the recent posters trying to sell Commodore equipment, here is my $.02. The main reason was (is) that I was not using it anymore. I am in charge of a lab with 25 386 machines, 10 macintoshes and 8 Sun workstations. I get home, and I am pretty sick of computers. I seem to be recovering, but I am now hooked on Turbo C, and 386's. A long way from the 128 and the Lt Kernel I had. I still have a C128D for sale. Best offer over $200 takes it. :-) Kelly Fergason klf1305@venus.tamu.edu
kws1x@dale.acc.Virginia.EDU (Kenneth W. Smith Jr) (10/30/90)
Give up my C='s?!?!?!?!?!? I own a 64 (it cost $350 at Circuit City in 1983), a 128D ($200 at Sears; it was a clearance/floor model), and an Amiga 3000. All I need now is a way to network them in my townhouse! :) I got the same question from many people when I got my Amiga. "Are you going to get rid of your other computers?" No way! Also, I have found that I use the 8-bitters quite a bit even with the A3000 around. As most of the others in this group have said, there are sentimental as well as fiscal reasons for holding on to our beloved machines. If someone is pressuring you to sell your 8-bit and get an Irritating Bowel Movement machine ( ie. 386 SUX), give them a little audio and video comparison. Besides, this way, when my commercial software ever gets itself written, I will have Commodore only versions. The IBM'ers will have to shell out some money to get a 64C or 128D just to use it!!! (many smileys) The 64C is roughly cost comparative to a WordPerfect upgrade anyway, right? (many more smileys) Commodore owners seem to be fiercely loyal to their machines, don't they? K W Smith, Jr. The Charlottesville Sector ******************************************************************************* * "Forgive me, but where would a 6000-year-old Mayan god * * learn to downshift a Toyota?" -Kate T. from _ALF_ * *******************************************************************************
ejp@icd.ab.com (Ed Prochak) (10/30/90)
regarding whether to trash the 64 In article <1990Oct25.095550.23881@evax.arl.utexas.edu>, hill@evax.arl.utexas.edu (Col. Ames and Pixel) writes: |> |> HECK NO!!! If you have the money for a 286 then you could afford a |> Amiga 500 or a 2000. Then get a copy of TheA64Package by Questronix. It is |> a rather nice C64 emulator. Much better than commercial ones and this fine |> piece of shareware is 30.00+SH that includes a hardware adapter that alows you |> to use 64 DD's and printers. |> |> Now it wont be fast as a 64 but if you gotta play MULE... ya gotta play |> MULE... If you want if I'll post some more just ask.. |> |> |> -- |> adam hill "I will tell you three things.." |> hill@evax.arl.utexas.edu Make Up Your Own Mind.. AMIGA! |> Amiga... Multimedia NOW!! |> 24 Bit Color(n.) Large waster of bandwidth. "Amiga walk with me ........" Funny you should give MULE as an example, since I just got my son interested in it recently. Now, I thought, this is great; something wean him away from the nintendo. Now the bad news, he calls me yesterday "Papa, the computer doesn't work. The monitor's a blank grey. cables seem fine. try typing something that will hit the disc drive so I can isolate it. No activity. Check inside, nothing obviously fried what's the problem? Power seems okay. the patient is listed as critical. What this is all leading up to is: tell me more about this A64 Package. I need basically two bits of information: the 1541 still works right? I have all my checkbook information on the 64. I've got to balance the book soon! ( the checkbook program is writtem in BASIC, so it should still run right? ) any chance this works on an AMIGA 1000? There is a chance I may be able to get a 1000, at least temporarily. So does the hardwaer work on any AMIGA??? If I can get a lowcost amiga, I will be happy. I may settle for a used 128D if I can find one in good shape. Thanks for any and all opinions on this topic. Edward J. Prochak Voice: w(216)646-4663 h(216)349-1821 Email: {cwjcc,pyramid,decvax,uunet}!ejp@icd.ab.com USmail: Allen-Bradley, 747 Alpha Drive, Highland Heights,OH 44143 Wellington: ENGINEERING is "the ability to do for one dollar, what any damn fool can do for two."
Michelle@cup.portal.com (TRACY M WIRS) (10/31/90)
heheheheheheheheehe........ I see that *I* am not the only one who corrects people automatically..... ...it's a habit of mine that dates from high school..... I suppose that's why Berkeley invented geoSpell? :> michelle
aoe@hpfcso.HP.COM (Alexander Elkins) (11/01/90)
ejp@icd.ab.com (Ed Prochak) writes: > What this is all leading up to is: > tell me more about this A64 Package. > > I need basically two bits of information: > the 1541 still works right? I have all my checkbook information > on the 64. I've got to balance the book soon! ( the checkbook > program is writtem in BASIC, so it should still run right? ) > > any chance this works on an AMIGA 1000? There is a chance I > may be able to get a 1000, at least temporarily. So does the > hardwaer work on any AMIGA??? Here's part'o what it says in "TheA64Package/Manual" for version 10/20/90 1.01n: SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS All programs in The A64 Package will work on all Amiga models except the A3000 (See A64 AND THE A3000 in the technical section). All programs in The A64 Package will work with V1.2 or higher WorkBench (including V2.0). The utility programs included with The A64 Package will run with 512k RAM. A64 will run "as is" with 1mb RAM, but can be made to run with 512k RAM (See A64 AND MEMORY in the TECHNICAL section). All programs included with The A64 Package will work with any 680x0 microprocessor (See 680x0 SUPPORT in the TECHNICAL section). If the hardware interface is used, a separate adapter cable is required for the Amiga 1000. WHAT DOES IT COST? The software portion of The A64 Package is licensed to you. You are free to use and distribute it as long as certain terms are agreed to (See LICENSE AGREEMENT on page 1). One of these terms is that QuesTronix is charging a license fee for the use of The A64 Package. This license fee is $25.00 (plus $3.00 for shipping and handling of the hardware interface, overseas orders please add an additional $2.00 for a total of $5.00 for shipping and handling. Connecticut residence please add 8% sales tax. Paying this license fee makes you a registered owner of The A64 Package and grants you certain rights and privileges. Also, after receiving the license fee, from you, QuesTronix will send you the hardware interface that is used with most of the programs in The A64 Package. The adapter cable needed for the A1000 is available for an additional $20.00. Please add $3.00 for shipping and handling if you order the adapter cable separately (overseas orders add $2.00 more for a total of $5.00 for shipping and handling). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can confirm it doesn't get past the title page on an A3000. - Alexander Elkins (aoe@hpfiaoe.HP.COM)