joystyk@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US (Joystyk) (10/09/90)
Well, Commodore users, I have just today received the newest version of DesTerm... DesTerm 2.00... And it has MANY more things that the first one... To name a few, it can be controlled by mouse, joystick, or hitting key letters in menu commands... Editing the buffer while still on-line. Baud rates up to 57,600 baud!!! Supports ANSIASCII, Commodore, VT-52, VT-102... There's just so much to say, and so little time! If you get your hands on this great program, you'll see what I mean. Such an improvement from the old one, and I thought the OLD one was good enough.
md41@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Marcus Dolengo) (10/10/90)
I'd like to see new overlays, ie something with Zmodem protocol, or other nice deatures that could be placed in an Overlay ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o o | This Space For Rent Amiga!! // << md41@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu >> | \\ // /> <\ | \X/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Coming soon to a .sig near you- Quotes!
consp24@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (consp24) (10/10/90)
Yeah, DesTerm is great... now only if it could do Kermit! Gregg Riedel consp24@bingsuns.pod.binghamton.edu
root@zswamp.fidonet.org (Geoffrey Welsh) (10/10/90)
> From: md41@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Marcus Dolengo) > Message-ID: <1990Oct10.025545.15627@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> > I'd like to see new overlays, ie something with Zmodem protocol, or other > nice deatures that could be placed in an Overlay I have argued over ZMODEM implementation with more people than I can count. The main advantage of ZMODEM is the ability to transmit non-stop. This requires that the receiver be able to continue RS-232 input while writing to disk. In the vast majority of Commodore configurations, this is not possible; the timing of both the serial bus and the RS-232 port is to sensitive to allow them to coexist at useful speeds (i.e., 2400 or 9600). Two ways around this could exist. *SOME* configurations, specifically those with very fast or relatively timing-insensitive drives (REUs, hard drives, IEEE-488 devices) and with an NS16550AFN buffered UART installed, might be able to write the data to the drive while the serial chip lets the incoming data pile up. While it is possible to replace the 8250 in a Hatronics "HART" with an NS16550AFN, I don't know of any people who have done so, and the fraction of C64/C128 owners who even have a UART cartridge in the first place is very small. The ZMODEM specification allows for some flow control, i.e. XOFF/XON. However, this would take away from ZMODEM its most attractive feature: its throughput efficiency. I submit that ZMODEM, if implemented with the pauses necessary to make it work with common drives, would offer *NO SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGES* over YMODEM. To top it off, ZMODEM is a complex protocol. Unlike XMODEM (which was a "quick hack") and its derivatives (which retain most of its simplicity), ZMODEM requires a lot of code and would require a hell of a lot of work to debug. Therefore, in summary: (1) ZMODEM's main advantage doesn't apply to 99% of Commodore computer configurations; (2) Any claims to support ZMODEM would apply to such a small segment of the market that they would be likely to confuse many users; (3) If we use a workaround, we end up no better off than we are now; (4) Creating the situations in (2) or (3) above would require a lot of work. Given the above, WHY BOTHER? Frankly, I don't love hacking so much that I'd dedicate months of hard work to achieve something truly pointless. Monetarily, even the time that Matt and I spent working on reliable 9600 bps drivers was not very well remunerated. I'm not saying that ZMODEM is impossible - I know that it can be done. However, no one has yet invested the time to do it and I suspect that no one with the smarts to succeed would also be foolish enough to consider the task worthwhile. -- UUCP: watmath!xenitec!zswamp!root | 602-66 Mooregate Crescent Internet: root@zswamp.fidonet.org | Kitchener, Ontario FidoNet: SYSOP, 1:221/171 | N2M 5E6 CANADA Data: (519) 742-8939 | (519) 741-9553 No one pays me enough to represent any opinions but my own.
root@zswamp.fidonet.org (Geoffrey Welsh) (10/10/90)
> From: consp24@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (consp24) > Message-ID: <4158@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu> > > Yeah, DesTerm is great... now only if it could do Kermit! Matt hasn't had the time to sit down & write/debug Kermit code. That may show up, now that we've amassed some Kermit info. -- UUCP: watmath!xenitec!zswamp!root | 602-66 Mooregate Crescent Internet: root@zswamp.fidonet.org | Kitchener, Ontario FidoNet: SYSOP, 1:221/171 | N2M 5E6 CANADA Data: (519) 742-8939 | (519) 741-9553 No one pays me enough to represent any opinions but my own.
CTuna@cup.portal.com (Image - BBS) (10/11/90)
>I'd like to see new overlays, ie something with Zmodem protocol.
I plan on working on some soon... I'll post something about it when
they are done.bwildasi@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Wildasin) (12/24/90)
I recently downloaded DesTerm 2 from milton.u.washington.edu. When I RUN "DESBOOT2.00",U9 the picture appears, and the tune plays. After the dialog box disappears, it goes into terminal mode and hangs. CTRL-RUNSTOP, ESC, and HELP have no effect. I am using a 128D with a 1581 and Aprotek Minimodem-24, a configuration which worked just fine with DesTerm 1. If anyone has any idea what the matter could be, please respond! Thanks for any & all help. Ben Wildasin
Matthew.Desmond@p0.f178.n221.z1.fidonet.org (Matthew Desmond) (12/25/90)
Ben: > I recently downloaded DesTerm 2 from milton.u.washington.edu. > When I > RUN "DESBOOT2.00",U9 > the picture appears, and the tune plays. After the dialog > box disappears, > it goes into terminal mode and hangs. CTRL-RUNSTOP, ESC, > and HELP have no > effect. I am using a 128D with a 1581 and Aprotek Minimodem-24, > a > configuration which worked just fine with DesTerm 1. > If anyone has any idea what the matter could be, please > respond! > Thanks for any & all help. There are a couple of situations under which DesTerm 2.00 will lock up: If you have a second SID chip (or Dr Evil Labs stereo SID cartridge) or GEORam installed, DesTerm is fooled into thinking you have a Dr Evil Labs Swift-Link 232 cartridge. DesTerm then sends the init string to the cart, and hangs waiting for the transmiter holding register to clear ('cos a SID or GEORam won't clear it!). Solution: remove second SID or GEORam. V2.10 (I'm working on it) will fix this problem. I had a user constantly complaining that DT crashed - it turns out that cleaning the drive heads fixed it. If neither of these situations apply to you, try running DesTerm without the modem plugged in (to the C128). If it works ok, re-configure the modem type (default is 1670 I believe) to be either Hayes or Inverted Hayes... Hope this helps. If not, please give more system info... Matthew E. Desmond, author of DesTerm 128. -- Matthew Desmond - via FidoNet node 1:221/171 UUCP : watmath!xenitec!zswamp!178.0!Matthew.Desmond Internet: Matthew.Desmond@p0.f178.n221.z1.fidonet.org
CTuna@cup.portal.com (Image - BBS) (12/28/90)
Matt.. is there any reason why Desterm doesn't boot up and run on my Lt. Kernal hard drive? It locks up right when it should be done loading. Also, any plans on implementing the NICE feature you put in SnapTerm on the SS5 cart into DesTerm that allows sending designated lines/parts of the buffer only? I would really like to see that, to help with running online multi player games. My check is in the mail to you, by the way, for registration, and my congrats on a SUPER terminal for the 128! Don Gladden
treesh@bach.helios.nd.edu (12/29/90)
YES! A Lt Kernal version of the Des Term program would be just super great!
I love my Lt Kernal Drive, but my only complaint about it is that most software
develpers are afraid of the darn thing, and thus usualy will alaways say..
'Im sorry, but its not my faulght the software wont run on your system
its that damn lt kernal dos.'
As a Cnet user from back in the days of Cnet 10.0 for the 64, I have learned
that most non-commodore hardware causes a major screw up with a lot of
commdore software. Cnet was a rather memory speciffic program, and thus
having anything in your system that was not total-commdore hardware
caused a lot of problem.
Im still scared to death of stuff like Jiffy Dos, or anything that alters
the root opperating system of the 64/128.
I can say that Im very suprised with the amout of compatibility my lt kernal
does give me. Although you may consider it an 'extended basic' cartridge
because of the additional commands it gives you, its suprizingly does
pretty much stay out of the way of most sofware.
It runs my Cnet 128 just fine, and I know for fact it works great wiht Image as well.
The dos book that comes with the drive gives programming considerations.
For the most part, stay away from fast-loaders, god knows you dont need them
with a kernal, and also dont load over the stack! Switching in and out
ROMSmS is ok though.
Matthew.Desmond@p0.f178.n221.z1.fidonet.org (Matthew Desmond) (12/30/90)
Don: > Matt.. is there any reason why Desterm doesn't boot up > and run on my > Lt. Kernal hard drive? It locks up right when it should > be done loading. Quite simple: DesTerm 2.00 uses absolutely NO rom calls at all -- everything is custom coded. Using some terribly crafty and underhanded code DesTerm 2.10 will now use the ROMS directly (might not sound like a big deal -- but believe me, it is!). This should allow ANY external device with modified ROMS to work -- as long as they don't change the MMU config and don't use memory that the normal serial routines don't use... > Also, any plans on implementing the NICE feature you put > in SnapTerm on > the SS5 cart into DesTerm that allows sending designated > lines/parts of > the buffer only? I would really like to see that, to help > with running > online multi player games. Actually, the mechanism for it has been there since V2.00, but I ran out of time, patience and memory so it got left out. I'll see what I can do for 2.10 > My check is in the mail to you, by the way, for registration, > and my > congrats on a SUPER terminal for the 128! Cheers. If you would be interseted in beta testing V2.10 for me ('cos you've a Lt K.) please call my BBS (519-747-5322) and leave a message and we'll see what we can do... Matthew E. Desmond -- Matthew Desmond - via FidoNet node 1:221/171 UUCP : watmath!xenitec!zswamp!178.0!Matthew.Desmond Internet: Matthew.Desmond@p0.f178.n221.z1.fidonet.org
root@zswamp.fidonet.org (Geoffrey Welsh) (12/30/90)
Image - BBS (CTuna@cup.portal.com ) wrote: >Matt.. is there any reason why Desterm doesn't boot up and >run on my Lt. Kernal hard drive? Yes: your Lt. Kernal drive superimposes its ROMs on the C128 OS, and hopes that it fits in well. DesTerm contains its own OS, and the Lt. Kernal's kludge doesn't work with it. Matt is working on a new architecture for DesTerm which will be friendly to devices like the Lt. Kernal *IF* they don't mess up the MMU. Geoff -- UUCP: watmath!xenitec!zswamp!root | 602-66 Mooregate Crescent Internet: root@zswamp.fidonet.org | Kitchener, Ontario FidoNet: SYSOP, 1:221/171 | N2M 5E6 CANADA Data: (519) 742-8939 | (519) 741-9553 MC Hammer, n. Device used to ensure firm seating of MicroChannel boards Try our new Molson 'C' compiler... it specializes in 'case' statements!
root@zswamp.fidonet.org (Geoffrey Welsh) (12/30/90)
>From: treesh@bach.helios.nd.edu >YES! A Lt Kernal version of the Des Term program would be >just super great! As previously mentioned, Matt is working on it... but there are no promises and no guarantees! >I love my Lt Kernal Drive, but my only complaint about it is >that most software >develpers are afraid of the darn thing, and thus usualy will >alaways say.. > > 'Im sorry, but its not my faulght the software wont run >on your system its that damn lt kernal dos.' You can hardly expect software authors to buy all of the third party hardware out there and spend the time to make sure they're compatible with it. Even ignoring the fact that the code would have to be huge to take into account every likely configuration, the balance of money and time spent vs. increased revenues is not good at all. >Im still scared to death of stuff like Jiffy Dos, or >anything that alters the root opperating system of the 64/128. That's another thing that Matt is trying to maintain compatibility with. -- UUCP: watmath!xenitec!zswamp!root | 602-66 Mooregate Crescent Internet: root@zswamp.fidonet.org | Kitchener, Ontario FidoNet: SYSOP, 1:221/171 | N2M 5E6 CANADA Data: (519) 742-8939 | (519) 741-9553 MC Hammer, n. Device used to ensure firm seating of MicroChannel boards Try our new Molson 'C' compiler... it specializes in 'case' statements!
treesh@vangogh.helios.nd.edu (01/03/91)
I can understand that. As a programmer myself, I was very scard of the lt kernal hard drive before I got my hands on one. It would seem that any software with any protection at all, or even so much as an auto-loader feature would crass the system with the kernal in place. I proabaly would have gone with a CMD hard drive if not for a friend of mine who was so desprate to sell his kernal that he gave me a deal I could not turn down. After playing with it, using it, and getting to know it, I would NEVER trade it for a CMD hard disk. The Lt Kernal Dos is the sweetest opperating system for a programmer! Adding dos commands like copy, merge, and a hole slew of programming utilties like renumber, and things like that make this drive a very nice (But way too expensive) addition the the system. It even works in CPM on my 128! One of the non-published features about the hardware of the SCSI interface is that with a high level of advanced programming knoledge, one could easyly add new commands to 64 or 128 basic. Since the basic and kernal rom are pretty much duplicated in the dos image file of the drive, additions (such as IEEE support) are not impossible. I would think that the changes to the rs232 rom drivers that des term makes could easly be changed as bytes on the hard disk sector, and could 'load from disk' the necessary rom configuration needed. Maybe?? ctfm
joystyk@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US (Joystyk) (02/22/91)
Someone sent me Email about a week ago requesting me to UUencode Desterm, and send it to them... would you please reply, as I lost your mail... Anyone else who may want it, I could send it to you too... it's just sitting here, ready to go... And it's ShareWare, so don't forget to send Matthew Desmond the registration fee! -- joystyk@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US / Luposlipaphobia: the fear of being pursued Trebor Sux CBM rules / by timber wolves around a kitchen table I love ADL / while wearing socks on a newly waxed floor