jareed@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Judith Ann Reed) (02/11/91)
In today's post, Earle Ake comments about no responses so far to Carl Marbach's article in the Feb '91 issue of DEC Professional about "The Decline Of DECUS". I tried to post this Friday, but it evidently didn't make it, so I'll try again. ******************************************************************************* Greetings! I am new to this list, but the following seems like an appropriate topic. I'd like to start a thread of discussion (or have someone send me recent postings on this topic if it has been done recently) on the editorial by Carl Marbach on page 10 of February's DEC Professional, entitled "The Decline Of DECUS". In it, he suggests that DECUS is not meeting the needs of the user community because it concentrates solely on DEC, is not addressing third party hardware issues, and makes it too difficult for attendees to go to DEXPO. He questions whether this is because DECUS and DEC are too closely allied and DEC has too big an influence. He brings up the following questions: 1. Why does DECUS cost so much? 2. Why does DECUS choose locations that ignore the geography of the DEC population? 3. Why is it so hard to go to both DECUS and DEXPO? 4. When they need answers, why don't most DEC users get them from DECUS? 5. Why is DECUS attendance so poor? 6. Is DECUS interested in the DEC community or just its own ingrown leadership? 7. How much influence does DEC have on DECUS? 8. Is DECUS necessary for the DEC community? Is the DEC community necessary for DECUS? 9. Why isn't DECUS a must for decision-makers in the DEC market? 10. What will DECUS do to improve? The above questions are all direct quotes from the article, and I realize a lot of them are very inflammatory, and I am really not trying to start a religious war here. However, I am running for LUG chair of my local lug, and I see similar problems on the local level - disinterest, lack of involvement, too much DEC and not enough of the other aspects that affect a DEC computer users workplace and hardware mix, and the fact that we don't seem to be meeting the needs of our user community. I am actively seeking ideas for change on the local level, and I hope that throwing this topic into the ring will bring out a lot of interesting discussion of very relevant issues. It would be helpful if respondants read the above-mentioned article before getting too worked up, as Carl states his case fairly well. Please don't flame me, I am just trying to see where DECUS stands in the eyes of its participants. Thanks!! (asbestos suit donned anyway....!) ################################################################################ Judith Reed, Systems Manager, Syracuse University High Energy Physics Tape librarian and "Running Chair" for CNYLUG - "LUGNUTS" Rm. 201, Physics Bldg, Syracuse, N.Y. 13244 315-443-5995 Bitnet: JUDITH@SUHEP Internet: JUDITH@SUHEP.PHY.SYR.EDU "What, me worry?" ################################################################################
cts@dragon.uucp (Charles T. Smith, Jr.) (02/13/91)
In article <1991Feb11.133456.6426@rodan.acs.syr.edu>, jareed@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Judith Ann Reed) writes: > In today's post, Earle Ake comments about no responses so far to Carl Marbach's > article in the Feb '91 issue of DEC Professional about "The Decline Of DECUS". > I tried to post this Friday, but it evidently didn't make it, so I'll try > again. > ******************************************************************************* > Greetings! I am new to this list, but the following seems like an appropriate > topic. I'd like to start a thread of discussion (or have someone send me recent > postings on this topic if it has been done recently) on the editorial by Carl > Marbach on page 10 of February's DEC Professional, entitled "The Decline Of > DECUS". In it, he suggests that DECUS is not meeting the needs of the user > community because it concentrates solely on DEC, is not addressing third > party hardware issues, and makes it too difficult for attendees to go to DEXPO. > He questions whether this is because DECUS and DEC are too closely allied and > DEC has too big an influence. He brings up the following questions: Overall, I thought the editorial made a number of very good points. I've read and commented on several discussions on the DECUS conferencing system over the past couple years, and in my opinion, there are a number of activities and practices I consider objectionable. > 1. Why does DECUS cost so much? First of all, I assume this means symposia. Mainly because the symposia is treated as a "cash cow" which is used to fund just about everything else that DECUS does. This includes activities ranging from sending represenatives to ANSI meetings, sending "observers" to other countries DECUS, and for a LOT of leadership meetings. Seems that many of the upper levels of DECUS management holds regular (apparently 1 to 4 types a year) "woods meeting" where the leadership flys to some place for a weekend or so. From budget figures, both published and forwarded to me from a board member, I think these expenses rather high...certainly something you most likly would not see, at least as much of, in a regular company. If symposia fees covered only the symposia, I did some rough figuring that DECUS could cut the fee by half to a third, increase spending on the meals (a long source of disagreement) and still make a profit...and all this without taking steps like revenue sharing with DEXPO. > 2. Why does DECUS choose locations that ignore the geography of the DEC > population? This actually has a rational explanation. It seems there are only a few convention facilities that have what DECUS needs...a combination of display space, many meeting rooms ranging from very large to very small, etc. New York is purposely excluded because of price. Supposedly there are symposia planned for the NE in a few years when facilities become available in Boston (which, in my humble opinion, is only slightly cheaper than NY City. > 3. Why is it so hard to go to both DECUS and DEXPO? Because of the "prime directive" of non-comercialism, it would appear. Despite the fact that a large percentage, if not a majority of the attendees go to DEXPO, DECUS seems to go out of the way to make it difficult. They only allowed the bus to enter the site after considerable complaints from the membership - and threat of bad press. > 4. When they need answers, why don't most DEC users get them from DECUS? Because, at least in my managements eyes, Decus is a "techie" club that caters to the techies, Unix hippies (hey, I know, but some of the "suits" in the corporate world would never consider Unix...mainly because of the perception that its advocates are practicing flower children) and while it has just enough technical validity to continue funding sending the techies off a couple times a year, it has about as much policy influence and credibility as the Micky Mouse Club. > 5. Why is DECUS attendance so poor? I think attendance would be better, if o Costs were lower o Better deals were offered worked out with airlines o More offerings concerning commercial users needs, third party products, etc. o DEXPO at the same site. > 6. Is DECUS interested in the DEC community or just its own ingrown leadership? I suffer from the perception that certianly some parts of DECUS suffer from an almost terminal case of ingrown leadership. The board, for example, makes a lot of good sounding noise, but a typical example of how they really work is this recent example of the hacker who was expelled from the symposia... done behind closed doors. While I have not had the chance to check the DECUS system recently, to date I have not heard anyone in an official capacity belly up to the bar and discuss this issue. Any "issue" seems to be handled in a "good old boy" type network... and the typical response I've gotten to challenges to this kind of thing have been "The leadership is all volunteer, and you should really be greatful to the time they donate, and thank you for your concerns, we'll consider your input." (Yeah, right, I'm sure it will give a good laugh at the next "woods meeting") > 7. How much influence does DEC have on DECUS? DEC pays the bills, something I've heard stressed many times. Does the tail wag the dog? > 8. Is DECUS necessary for the DEC community? Is the DEC community necessary > for DECUS? I'd like to think that some means of technical and professional change are necessary. I'm not sure this is DECUS in its current form. > 9. Why isn't DECUS a must for decision-makers in the DEC market? See item 4 above. > 10. What will DECUS do to improve? Good question. I've seen a lot of lip service to this. I tend to vote against anyone running for the board that seems to be an "insider". > > The above questions are all direct quotes from the article, and I realize a lot > of them are very inflammatory, and I am really not trying to start a religious > war here. However, I am running for LUG chair of my local lug, and I see > similar problems on the local level - disinterest, lack of involvement, too > much DEC and not enough of the other aspects that affect a DEC computer users > workplace and hardware mix, and the fact that we don't seem to be meeting the > needs of our user community. I am actively seeking ideas for change on the > local level, and I hope that throwing this topic into the ring will bring out > a lot of interesting discussion of very relevant issues. It would be helpful > if respondants read the above-mentioned article before getting too worked up, > as Carl states his case fairly well. Please don't flame me, I am just trying > to see where DECUS stands in the eyes of its participants. Thanks!! > (asbestos suit donned anyway....!) > ################################################################################ > Judith Reed, Systems Manager, Syracuse University High Energy Physics > Tape librarian and "Running Chair" for CNYLUG - "LUGNUTS" > Rm. 201, Physics Bldg, Syracuse, N.Y. 13244 315-443-5995 > Bitnet: JUDITH@SUHEP Internet: JUDITH@SUHEP.PHY.SYR.EDU "What, me worry?" > ################################################################################ Disclaimer: This is one mans opinion. Its worth what it costs. Go ahead and flame away. Charles T. Smith, Jr. cts@dragon.uucp ...gatech!emory!dragon!cts
tihor@acf3.NYU.EDU (Stephen Tihor) (02/21/91)
Actually probably not that much of a laught at woods meetings. I have been to a number of them and while hter is a level of relation its still 10-12 hour days working. One good reason for woods meetings is that it is hard to get much DECUS work done during the year at one's own site. Woods meeting (and just prepping for them) tensds to get a burst of work completed.
tihor@acf3.NYU.EDU (Stephen Tihor) (02/21/91)
Actually that probably won't cause much of a laught at woods meetings. More likely some serious talk. I have been to a number of them and while there is a level of relation its still 10-12 hour days working. One good reason for woods meetings is that it is hard to get much DECUS work done during the year at one's own site. Woods meeting (and just prepping for them) tensds to get a burst of work completed. [There are allways exceptions of course but I haven;t; hit one yet.]