dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (AntiNeophilus) (12/02/86)
> In article <4372@ut-ngp.UUCP>, werner@ut-ngp.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) writes: > when I first saw IM I threw it into a corner and decided that it was suicidal > to even try to develop software based on "that mess" - anyone who did has > my deepest admiration (and sympathies). For many types of applications I > suspect that it was nearly impossible to get things done without going beyond > what IM told the developer about. I think it is unfair to make it sound as > if all developers had to do was to "follow the IM-guidelines", I suspect. > > am I terribly off the track with such "heresy"? I use the phonebook (i.e., outdated and incorrect in spots) version of Inside Mac. I have relied on it regularly in nearly all the work I have done on the Macintosh and would be lost without it. I also have Mac Revealed, but only look at it when I can't find something in IM. But I usually can't find it in MR, either. Aside from such references, however, another valuable resource for developing applications is source code from other existing applications. These are invaluable as an aid to figuring out particular techniques. Scroll bars, for instance, are much easier to implement when you've seen how someone else does it, rather than trying to do it from scratch. Other concrete examples: Grep-Wc read MacWrite files. The code to do this is based directly on Index (a Rascal program written at Reed College by the Rascal developers). Without it, I would not have had the impetus to write Grep. FakeAlert uses a technique from SimpleTools for constructing dialog item lists in memory rather than getting them from a resource file. The new release of TransSkel supports modeless dialogs, but only because Dave Berry took the trouble to do it first and then had the kindness to send me the changes. I modified his code slightly, but let's face it: modeless dialogs were a gaping lacuna in my comprehension of Macintosh techniques. If Dave hadn't bothered with them in TransSkel, I still wouldn't know beans about them, and maybe you wouldn't be able to use them so easily either (if you're a TransSkel user). Some day I will grapple with printing. When I do, I will go to the Shebanow posting of the source for a printer program, and to the print library source in the Rascal distribution. When I write TransDraw, I'll use Allen Weber's MacDraw->Imagen program as a guide. It's considerations like these that account for my posting source to most of the applications I post. I *know* from the feedback I get that it helps others, and I *know* others' programs help me. One other point: I just looked through the mod.mac.sources stuff (I keep the articles), and lo! Half the postings are mine. This is deplorable. We can all benefit from *your* source code, but only if you post it. Or at least indicate, when posting the binary, whether you'd be willing to mail the source to interested parties. --- Paul DuBois UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois | ARPA: dubois@easter --+-- dubois@rhesus | | "What is lacking cannot be counted." - Solomon the cladist (Ecclesiastes 1:15)
DMB@PSUVMA.BITNET (12/04/86)
about IM,
i'd have to agree that it is pretty useless to the beginning mac programmer
. The only way to learn is by example (and IM is excessively lacking in that
department). now that i know most of what all the routines do, IM has become
indispensible, as i am always refering to it. I guess after all it is a
"reference manual" and not a tutorial, which is probably a pity. By the way,
MacMan for those who don't know, is inside mac on a desk accessory. You can
look up procedures et.al. by category (i.e. file system calls) or by name.
very handy to have, although the corresponding database is around 300K, this
would be extremely nice for hard disk users.
davelsr@apple.UUCP (Larry Rosenstein) (12/05/86)
In article <611@uwmacc.UUCP> dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (AntiNeophilus) writes: > >Aside from such references, however, another valuable resource for >developing applications is source code from other existing >applications. These are invaluable as an aid to figuring out >particular techniques. Scroll bars, for instance, are much easier to >implement when you've seen how someone else does it, rather than trying >to do it from scratch. > >Other concrete examples: >.... I will point out here that MacApp comes with the complete source code. (In fact we don't distribute the binaries at all, so you have to compile everything once.) -- Larry Rosenstein Object Specialist Apple Computer AppleLink: Rosenstein1 UUCP: {sun, voder, nsc, mtxinu, dual}!apple!lsr CSNET: lsr@Apple.CSNET
dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (12/06/86)
> I will point out here that MacApp comes with the complete source code. (In > fact we don't distribute the binaries at all, so you have to compile > everything once.) > Larry Rosenstein I don't suppose you'll be posting it, though. --- Paul DuBois UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois | ARPA: dubois@easter --+-- dubois@rhesus | | "What is lacking cannot be counted." - Solomon the cladist (Ecclesiastes 1:15)
rs4u#@andrew.cmu.edu (Richard Siegel) (12/06/86)
" i'd have to agree that it is pretty useless to the beginning mac programmer.. " I strongly disagree. I was a beginning Mac programmer once (8-), and I was using Macintosh Pascal with those lovely InLine() functions. While I had to do a lot of page-flipping, mainly because the phone-book's index was crappy, everything was straightforward and clearly explained. I'd have been lost without it, because there were no other references at the time. Perhaps a better way to state this is "IM is pretty useless to the beginning programmer"? IM isn't exactly brimming with examples, but the little program at the beginning of the book is a good start.... --Rich
dwb@well.UUCP (David W. Berry) (12/07/86)
I don't know that I would say one can't do developement with just IM. I've done so ever since I got a copy of it in early '84. To this day it is the only Mac book I use extensively. The information was certainly all there, you just had to really dig to find it. -- David W. Berry dwb@well.uucp dwb@Delphi dwb@GEnie 293-0752@408.MaBell
briand@tekig4.UUCP (Brian Diehm) (12/08/86)
> about IM, > i'd have to agree that it is pretty useless to the beginning mac programmer. Actually, I'd disagree. I have been able, typically, to wander into some "new" section of IM that I am completely unfamiliar with, spend no more than 10 minutes, and figure out which calls I need and start playing. Usually, I have NOT needed to read the intro for that section; I have been able to START with the descriptions of the calls! I can think of NO section where I needed to completely read the intro in order to do my work, and usually I can pick out the section of the intro that will answer my problem questions in very short order. Yes, this has included even such arcana as the window manager. In point of fact, though the organization is unorthodox, the documentation of the entire system is monumental, and quite useful. Unlike so much documenta- tion of large systems, IM is quickly useful without much searching around. In my opinion, compared with, say, un*x documentation, it is a real breath of fresh air. Rather than being chastised, Apple should be congratulated on the achievement. -Brian Diehm Tektronix, Inc. (SDA - Standard Disclaimers Apply)