mdc@mit-eddie.UUCP (02/09/87)
In article <1725@PUCC.BITNET> 6065833@PUCC.BITNET writes: > Can anyone recommend another LOGO for the macintosh? Has anyone found > a way to print graphics windows on >a laserwriter? Any information > would be greatly appreciated. Object Logo from Coral Software in Cambridge, Mass is a good value. It is about $80 and has loads of features, Comes with Finder 5.3 and system 3.2, lots of examples, a good reference manual, and is supported by a solid bunch of hackers (I know some of them). They have an ad in this month's MACWORLD, with ordering info. I've used it, and I recommend it highly. I hope some schools pick up on it and use it.
eddings@bgsuvax.UUCP (02/19/87)
In article <4794@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU>, mdc@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU (Martin Connor) writes: > In article <1725@PUCC.BITNET> 6065833@PUCC.BITNET writes: > > Can anyone recommend another LOGO for the macintosh? Has anyone found > > a way to print graphics windows on >a laserwriter? Any information > > would be greatly appreciated. > Object Logo from Coral Software in Cambridge, Mass is a good value. > It is about $80 and has loads of features, Comes with Finder 5.3 and > system 3.2, lots of examples, a good reference manual, and is > supported by a solid bunch of hackers (I know some of them). > They have an ad in this month's MACWORLD, with ordering info. Below you will find a copy of a text upload that I found while prowling around GEnie, the General Electric network for information exchange. With the recent mention on the net of ObjectLogo for the Mac, and the rise in object oriented programming for the Mac in general, I thought I'd pass this on. Begin quoted text from a GEnie upload ------------------------------------------------------ Your Chance for a Free Dance With the Prettiest Turtle in Town: The Great ObjectLogo Giveaway. ObjectLogo is a new programming language from Coral Software. With ObjectLogo anyone can create complex Macintosh programs in minutes. Mac programming isn't just for experts anymore! At $79.95, ObjectLogo is already a great deal. But we want to make it an even better deal. We're giving copies away. If you want a chance to win a copy of ObjectLogo, just write your name and address on a piece of paper, and get it to us by March 20, 1987. The address is: ObjectLogo Giveaway Coral Software P.O. Box 307 Cambridge, MA 02142 About ObjectLogo: ObjectLogo combines the gentle learning environment of Logo with the power of Lisp. Instructions and procedures can be immediately compiled to 68000 code or edited in file windows. Debugging aids include a watcher (for monitoring variable values), stepper, and tracer. ObjectLogo includes the most advanced object oriented programming system on the Macintosh. Windows, menus, editors, disk and serial I/O, and (of course) turtles are implemented as customizable objects, making Macintosh programming easier than in any other language. The ObjectLogo math package allows free mixing of unlimited size integers, fractions, complex numbers, and floating point numbers. Complete Quickdraw access is available through error-checked calls. Direct Toolbox access is available through low-level calls. For information and orders, write or call: Coral Software, P.O. box 307, Cambridge, MA 02142 (800)-521-1027. In Massachusetts (617) 547-2662 small print: No purchase is necessary. Only one entry per envelope. Drawing will be held on March 21, 1987. Ten copies of ObjectLogo will be awarded. Complete rules may be obtained from Coral Software at the address given above. Of course, Macintosh is a trademark licensed to Apple Computer, inc. ObjectLogo is a trademark of yours truly, Coral Software. -------------------------------------------------- End quoted material Disclaimer; I have no connection with Coral Software, and am providing the information as a service, and a chance at free prize. Ken Eddings CSNET: eddings@bgsu.edu Department of Philosophy ARPANET: eddings%bgsu.csnet@csnet-relay Bowling Green State Univ. UUCP: cbatt!osu-eddie!bgsuvax!eddings Bowling Green OH 43403 ATT: 419-372-2680 GEnie: K.EDDINGS "The prudent mariner never relies solely on any single aid to navigation." -=Old Mariner's Proverb=-
rickers@drexel.UUCP (02/23/87)
In article <4794@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU>, mdc@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU (Martin Connor) writes: > In article <1725@PUCC.BITNET> 6065833@PUCC.BITNET writes: > > Can anyone recommend another LOGO for the macintosh? Has anyone found > > a way to print graphics windows on >a laserwriter? Any information > > would be greatly appreciated. > Object Logo from Coral Software in Cambridge, Mass is a good value. > It is about $80 and has loads of features, Comes with Finder 5.3 and > system 3.2, lots of examples, a good reference manual, and is > supported by a solid bunch of hackers (I know some of them). > They have an ad in this month's MACWORLD, with ordering info. I have received a copy of Object Logo from Coral Software a week or so ago and have found it to be quite an interesting product. I have been interested in Object Oriented Programming for the last two years and have found the time spent learning Object Logo to be worthwhile. At one point I had spent a lot of time playing with Logo, and had used this experience when I was fiddling around with Object Logo. Some conclusions that I have drawn from using Object Logo: 1) Let's talk about the manual first... - Huge! Mainly a reference to the language. - Assumes an understanding of Logo and Object Oriented ideas. - Awkward format. Elongated (Yuck). Bars which mark additions to the language are always on the right hand side of the page and are hard to see on the left sided pages. 2) The program... - Tends to be slow, but so does Logo. - Adheres nicely to other Logos. - Environment is pseudo-multitasking. - Easy to edit work. - Multiple editing windows allowed. - Garbage collection seems to happen to often (depending on program usage) with a large workspace (can be slow! a few seconds average). 3) The language... - Very similar to other Logos (already said) - Very nice O-O concepts added! An Object-Oriented Language does not necessarily have to be like all the others, and this one is not. It does feature a lot of O-O ideas, more than other OOPLS on the mac. To name a few: = Inheritance (multiple!!!!!!) = Different types of binding (static & dynamic) = run time messaging = a wierd sence of data encapsulation (make an object the current object and all methods are those of that object). = garbage collection (could, and should) be considered for an OOPL = compiled & interpreted language. after compiling the definition, results can be seen immediately. 4) Overall impression... What a fantastic way of learning about Object Oriented programming. I has features that many other so-called object-oriented languages do not have (major one is multiple inheritence). Plus Logo is a wonderful way of first learning to program. Logo can be used to teach children fundamentals of programming, while O-O Logo can be used to teach mom/dad fundamentals of object-oriented programming. Okay, it may be a bit slow, but it feels good to be able to enter a definition and see the results fast. A good interactive environment. Object Logo does not provide a large class of objects to work with, but there are enough to get started. It has a good approach to using some Macintosh features such as windows and menus. I wouldn't write a heavy-duty application in Object Logo, but it is a great learning tool. I am teaching a class on Object-Oriented programming and I will definitely use Object Logo as a way of teaching multiple inheritance. As a learning tool, Object Logo is fantastic! As a plain vanilla Logo, again Object Logo is fantastic! (compared to other Logos, not necessarily on the Mac). But for an application development language or prototyping language, it won't compare too well against other languages. Rickers
gus@Shasta.UUCP (02/26/87)
I bought Object logo at the MacWorld expo in SF earlier this year and I have my own impressions of the language. I had always heard that multiple inheritance was screwy. NOW I KNOW SO! The Object Oriented Logo manual explains it fairly well. I would like to hear from people who have programmed extensively with multiple inheritance and get their thoughts as to whether and how it should be used. I can just see so many strange things happening as the class graph becomes larger that I find it hard to believe that this system is workable for anything but a limited set of examples. Logo shares a trait with FORTH, LISP, and SMALLTALK in that is almost entirely vocabulary based. There are hundreds of LOGO words, and many of them are not self explanatory. Each one has a large amount of semantics behind it. This makes programs hard to read unless you are familiar with the entire language. I much prefer languages which are more syntax based, where some of the syntax of the language can help you along to format and understand the code. Has anyone seen discussions about this topic? When I sat down with Coral logo, I immediately saw the LISP-like engine that was behind all of this. I expected it to behave somewhat like other LISPs that I have worked with before. I found out, however, that one thing was different - either Object Logo is entirely written in some lower level language, or there is a non user accessible flag which prevents you from seeing the definitions of some of the higher level LOGO words like you often can in LISP. The only thing that you CAN see are the words you you put in, or those that were in a system startup file. There are many - especially the ones that handle windows, files, and streams - that I would like to look at, especially to get a better Idea of how a read multiple inheritance class hierarchy works. Has anyone done some interesting programs - especially some that use multiple inheritance - in Object Logo? I would be interested in looking at them. The examples on the disk leave a bit to be desired. Gus Fernandez
jww@sdcsvax.UUCP (02/27/87)
Object Logo is not screwy because of multiple inheritance.
Object Logo is screwy because it's an instance-based inheritance.
Most o-o languages define classes (types in Object Pascal) of objects with
similar variables, procedures ("behaviors"), etc. A few languages
make each object unique. I don't have Object Logo, but Kurt Schmucker
in his book notes that Object Logo is this way (and he confirmed this
when I talked to him at Macworld about o-o languages in general.)
A good example of multiple inheritance I've heard used is the window.
A window is an object that's part of a list, and it's something visual
(like a QD grafport). Or maybe you have bitmap objects, and you also
have displayed bitmap objects that inherit both the bitmap stuff and
the property of being in a display list.
Multiple inheritance is pretty rare, mostly for implementation reasons,
so there aren't a lot of good examples out there.