benn@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Thomas Cox) (03/07/87)
[]
The below is a transcript of the conference that took place in
CompuServe's Apple Development Forum the night of the new Mac
announcements. Very little has been changed by me. Please note
the copyright notices.
-= Thomas Cox =-
...ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!benn
"There are people who have a need to feel superior to others.
But me, I'm above that."
--------cut here-----------------cut here-----------------cut here---------
Copyright 1987 by Apple Computer, Inc. and MCU, Inc.
All rights reserved.
Transcript of the conference held 3/2/87 in the Apple Developer's
Forum of CompuServe, sponsored by MAUG(tm) and Apple Computer, Inc.
(Bill S [Sysop]) John, why don't you introduce yourself and the others
with you, and tell everyone what the co is about, then we'll get down to
the formal part.
(Maui & Becks) This is Steve, acting as typist. Here tonight are John...
Mitchell, Manager of Software QA at Apple; Russ Wetmore...
Software Engineer in Software QA; Lew Rollins, consultant...
senior contractor working on Mac II ROM QA, and myself...
who was working with Lew until the end of last month.
(Bill S [Sysop]) You guys ready to fend some questions?
(Maui & Becks) Sure!
(Keith.McGreggor) I have the B3 Roms... yet the latest docs refer to B4, B5,
and B6. When will I be getting a (hopefully) stable Rom for my unit?
(Maui & Becks) Developers will be getting B7 ROMs -- not sure when...
such timing is not up to the group presently assembled...
BTW, wanted to mention that our handle is comprised of...
the code names for the last several months for the...
Mac SE and Mac II respectively.
(Jon Hardis) Before I ask my question, do you want to explain to the rest of
us about what ROMs go with what machine (SE, II, +)...
in the commercial release?
(Maui & Becks) Each machine has its own ROMs. Not sure what you mean.
(Jon Hardis) I'm a board living on the Mac II bus. how fancy can I get
with things like DMA and interruping to specific parts of code?
(Maui & Becks) There is no real DMA -- you can do direct transfers to...
RAM but you can't steal CPU cycles. You can have multiple..
devices per board, each with its own interrupt.
(Mark DeNyse) I know the 64/128k roms have some support for color quickdraw,
but what do the new 256k roms support?
(Maui & Becks) They are fully compatible with the "old" QuickDraw...
color modes, and in addition they support a new color "model" or architecture
with 1, 2, 4, or 8 bits per pixel. This yields 2, 4, 16, or 256 colors on
the screen at one time from a palette of 16 million...
(Seth Snyder) WHAT SCREEN OPTRIONS AND RESOLUTIONS ARE AVAILABLE?
(Maui & Becks) First, keep in mind that 3rd parties will be offering...
many options and resolutions. Apple is offering 2 screens...
each 640x480, one monochrome and one color. QuickDraw...
BTW, is size/resolution independent.
(William R. Smook) are there new ROMS for the MAC+? and re the new
system/finder does the user need all the other folders?
(Maui & Becks) The Mac Plus ROMs remain the same, except possibly for a few
bytes of change having to do with SCSI booting. Yes, you should get the new
versions of the other files.
(Tony Jacobs) When can a New developer expect to get a hold of a Mac II,
and will the Mac II easily accomidate the future 680x0 processors?
(Maui & Becks) Availabilty: 2nd quarter 1987. The Mac II bus is processor-
independent.
(DavidI/Borland) First, I think it has been great what apple has done
electronically over the past two weeks to help us with out
questions and the session this morning
was great, even without the visuals
(except in my mind). I really like the
new Control Panel DA (especially that
you put back in the time).
On the Mac II, I have a few memory
questions. For the expansion (NuBus)
memory is there support for memory
errors like parity errors? Also where
are wait states in the Mac II (I seem to
remember 1 wait state for the NuBus and
another for the memory?) Does the Video
use up addon RAM like the Mac+ or does
the board have its own memory and where
is it? to many ??
(Maui & Becks) There are no Nubus RAM cards at present. There is nothing to
prevent a RAM card from using parity checking; it has only a Level 2
interrupt available, however. The video cards have their own local RAM and
do not use CPU RAM for screen imaging. As to wait states, we think there
are two but we're not sure - we're mostly software types here.
(DavidI/Borland) yeah, but I thought apple announced a addon memory card?
(Maui & Becks) A third party may have, but Apple did not.
(Bob Lafleur) I have two questions.
(1) Basically what is the difference between the Mac SE and Mac II ROMS. and
(2) do either of the two new machines have any new enhances sound
capabilities?
(Maui & Becks) Firstly, the Mac II supports a bigger range of hardware
and as such has much in the way of system specific features
such as color QuickDraw, Slot Manager, enhanced Sound...
Manager, and the like. The Mac SE has some new features
incorporated into the Mac II like a more enhanced TextEdit,
and Apple Desktop Bus support.
As far as sound capabilities go, nothing to speak of in
the Mac SE, but the Mac II features new proprietary sound
hardware and a new high level, device independent Sound
Manager.
(ADAM MILLER) How much will a Mac II system cost?
(Maui & Becks) Depends on how you outfit it. Base price for a 1 Meg RAM,
800K floppy system with monochrome monitor is about $4700.
Adding a color monitor and 40 Meg Hard disk would total
around $7000. This only accounts for Apple equipment and
represents list prices.
(Scott Graeme) Two questions
one: Why only one slot on the SE is it limited? and
two: Is the SE color compatable?
(Maui & Becks) Question one - only one card will fit for space reasons
(the SE has the same footprint as a Mac Plus, and was
designed that way) and the card's capabilities are unlimited
because it has direct access to the CPU.
Question two - the SE has basically the same color capabilities
already built into the Mac Plus ROMs, but there are hooks
built in for some limited support for external devices.
(Larry Loeb/Microbyt) the letter I got with system 4.0 indicated..
that is was really a beta system, that 4.1 would be the real system
Is it useful for non-devs to have/use this ...
system for other than test purposes?
(Dan Cochran) Larry,
System 4.0 is primarily there to provide support
for the new SE features. It is not even licensable by developers
as it should have a very short life span. If you are
using Appleshare use the system and finder that come with
the Appleshare software. If you have an SE, use the 4.0 System
and 5.4 Finder, they both support Appleshare. Later this
year we intend to introduce a universal system disk to
support all Mac variations except the 128K. I'd stick
with the current stuff. System 4.0 and Finder 5.4 can
be used with Mac Pluses and even Mac 512's (you'll have
to shrink it dramatically)
(David Dunham) What about TextEdit? Does it include tabs? If not,
why not? And a bug report: mouse tracking won't change from tablet
(in ctrlP 3.0). <>
(Maui & Becks) First, ours (assembled) is not to reason why. No, TextEdit
doesn't support tabs. It does, however, support variable
text sizes and styles, fonts, and colors in the same record.
Steve B. reports that mouse tracking works fine on his machine.
(Bill S [Sysop]) (mouse tracking works fine for me too, including
changing the setting)
(David Dunham) (may be a Radius bug then)
(Donald [Sysop]) How fast can we get our hands on SEs? Also, when
will the new documentation be available? And, will the improved
TextEdit be available on MacPlusses through patches to system
or a new PACK?
(Maui & Becks) SE's should be available shortly.
(Dan Cochran) We are giving APDA three beta manuals next week.
1) Inside Macintosh Volume V
2) Macintosh Family Hardware Reference
and
3) Macintosh Cards and Drivers
They have sent out a mailing to all their members
with ordering information and prices.
And they promise to have quick turnaround.
The pressure is now on us to deliver the
goods (very reasonably priced). I'll let Maui and
Becks answer the TextEdit questions.
(Maui & Becks) TextEdit could be backpatched to work on the Plus, but as
far as we know, no firm decision has been made yet. It
would take an awful lot of RAM to patch existing ROMs.
(Don Leeper) Is 8 bits of color the maximum and if not
what kind of support is there for more, say 24 or 32 bits. Also
what if anything can an existing application do with color.
(Maui & Becks) No, 8 bits is not the maximum. Apple's announced video
card has an 8-bit limitation, but theoretically, QuickDraw
can support 24-bits. A lot of that extra capability might
be device specific, and (quick show of hands) we're not
sure if 24-bits is fully supported in the first release.
(Stew Rubenstein) First, do the SE and/or the Mac ][ include a floating
point coprocessor? A spot for one? Second, when
You didn't really answer the earlier question - should
we download and test with 4.0/5.4 on our present machines?
Finally, can you give us a little more details on what new
calls the color quickdraw supports?
(Maui & Becks) has none built in...
Second, as stated earlier, do not bother with System 4.0
unless you have AppleShare...
Thirdly, Color Quickdraw has new pen modes (which make more
sense than the old, B&W modes do for color), can support
absolute selection and look-up table type color selection.
The system now has support for color menus, windows,
controls - just about anything you can think of - and it's
very easy to upgrade existing applications to support color.
(Dan Cochran) Stew...if you are a developer it might be wise
to download 4.0 and 5.4 because they'll give you
some ideas as to your Appleshare compatibility
among other things. Tech Support is sending 4.0
and 5.4 to all Certified Developers along with
some compatibility guidelines. If you aren't
writing software I don't think it's worth downloading.
(Although you do get a neat trash can that gets
fat when you put something in it). .
(Stew Rubenstein) us scientific types arte
going to be awfully disappointed that there is no
floating point. Is there a socket? do we need to rely on
third party cards? I want to tell my
customers that they can use my software with a single-
vendor setup - it makes a big difference
(Maui & Becks) SANE is independent of hardware - it will be done in
(make that, can be done) in software as it is presently.
(Stew Rubenstein) sloooooowly.
(Maui & Becks) The SE <does> have an expansion bus, after all. It's just
that Apple has not announced any FP cards for the SE....
the coprocessor works best with a 68020 at any rate.
(Bill S [Sysop]) Dan, what about all the support files that were uploaded...
with the new system. Should people be using the new
Font DA Mover, etc, even if they don't use the new system stuff, etc?
(Dan Cochran) I'll say it again. We're recommending that you stay
with 3.2/5.3 and all current utilities. You CAN use
the new stuff but it won't buy you much (possibly a
few headaches). Stick with the current stuff until
the universal disk is released.
(Jeff Peterman) 1. When will Mac II be available
2. Will there be any trade in allowance for Mac +s?
(Maui & Becks) 1. 2nd Qtr '87. 2. No.
(Wayne Rasband) Does the Mac II have a graphics chip?
(Maui & Becks) No. Of course, there is no reason why a video card
couldn't be developed using one; there is a protocol in
place between main memory and display memory on a video card.
(James A. Graniela) Wiil the Mack II have a video output of an SMPTE standard?
(Maui & Becks) The Mac (sic) II has no video output. The announced video
card does not have any external connection except to the
Apple monitor. A video card, of course, could be made to
any standard considered applicable.
(James A. Graniela) Will ADO be designing a card for the Mac II?
(Maui & Becks) Who is ADO?
(James A. Graniela) It is the man. of video graphic manipulation systems
(Maui & Becks) We don't know.
(James A. Graniela) We use it in post production in the making of
commercials and other projects (video)
(Mark Karp) First; does the SE and the II use 72 dpi or..
80 dpi monitors (which are nice because of..
the IW)??... Also is Apple planning on leaving..
the FPD market to third party developers?..
Second, what setup is the ram on the main board..
of the Mac II (256K SIMMS chips??) And what is..
it expandable to on the board (and overall)?..
(Maui & Becks) First question - 72 dpi. Can't comment on Apple's plans for
future products....
Second - Either 256K or 1Meg SIMMs. Mac II can go to 8 Meg
RAM on board, and more could be added through NuBus cards.
SE goes to 4 Meg RAM.
(Frank Brooks) When will the 40meg tape backup be available,...
What type of cartridge does it use,...
Is it the same hardware as the SuperMac device, and...
How complete is the backup software for it?
(Maui & Becks) Availability 2nd qtr. Cartridge is a DC2000. Not sure...
what SuperMac's using. Backup software will allow for...
image or file backup and restoration.
(Dana D. Hoch) Did Apple announce any hardware and/or software
that will support MSDos or Unix on the new Macs
If so what and when will it be available.
(Maui & Becks) Apple announced MS-DOS data compatibility via a 5.25"...
floppy drive and controller. Unix support includes...
standard V5 with BSD 4.2 extensions and access to the...
Mac toolbox from Unix. ...Even to the extent that...
applications developed for the Mac OS can be run under...
Unix (as always: "if they follow the rules.")...
Unix is 3rd qtr. 5.25 drive is 3rd qtr also (we think).
(DavidI/Borland) AST's 80286 card
(Craig R. Arko) what is the MPW support for UNIX or other MAC II features
(Dan Cochran) We plan to release a 2.0 beta version of MPW
to APDA in May. Including support for 68020
code generation, new interfaces for the ROMs,
and some VERY nifty new shell features and
utilities including the ability to use dialog
boxes, radio buttons, standard file, etc. to
specify the paramaters of an MPW command. While there will be many
UNIX-based languages available we don't as yet
have a solid game-plan for porting the MPW suite
to UNIX. Greenhills own UNIX-hosted C-Compiler
will be available though, most likely as a third
party product. MPW Pascal....don't know yet.
(Fred Hebard) Will there be new ROMs for the Plus that support new TextEdit,
etc? And Does II have a floating point socket,
What's cost of base machine, its clock speed, screen size
and base software configuration?
(Maui & Becks) No new ROMs for the Plus. The Mac II has not only a...
FP socket, it comes with a chip installed in it...
The cost ranges from about $4700-$7000+ depending on...
configuration. Clock speed is 15.7MHz. Screen sizes...
of the two Apple monitors is 640x480.
(Dan Cochran) (68881 FPP is standard)
(Charles Hart) How much is the Mac+ in USA?
(Maui & Becks) Mac Plus list price is $2199.
(Marion Stokes) What kib kind of color hard copy
do the SE and Mac ii directly support?
and will the Mac ii support the ZA AT & T Targa and video board?
(Maui & Becks) The only color print capability now...
(Maui & Becks) is the Imagewriter II's limited color output.
(Dan Cochran) Marion...because I never know who wants...
to be known as developing Apple compatible hardware....
I won't mention any names....
However, in the last few weeks I've seen...
examples of third-party electrostatic color printing...
thermal color printing, ink-jet color printing...
and 35-mm film output that is unbelievable...
(Dan Cochran) Color laser-output is still cost-prohibitive but...
one of these days!!! .
(Jon Hardis) The most important question...
to see if you guys are staying true to the heritage...
Whose names are on the back of the case?
(Maui & Becks) Names? I don't see any names here.
(Dan Cochran) Some guy with the initials U.L.
(Jon Hardis) <Good answer!>
(Maui & Becks) (That's "Uncle Lew" Rollins.)
(Scott Graeme) Dan: I have sys 3.3/5.4 should I trash it?
(Scott Graeme) M & B: Is the Plus up-gradeable to an SE.
(Dan Cochran) Use 3.3 and 5.4 if you are running a Plus or...
a 512K or 512KE on Appleshare. Use 4.0 and 5.4 if you are...
running a SE
(Maui & Becks) Dan meant AppleShare, not AppleTalk. AppleShare is the
file server software that was announced in January....
There is no upgrade from the Plus to the SE. All they...
have in common is the video tube. Not even the battery...
is the same.
(DavidI/Borland) How much IBM compatible software has
apple tried? Can I load IBM software on
3 1/2" disks from a Mac 3 1/2" disk or
do I need the 5 1/2" disk drive?
Will Apple upload or will APDA have
pascal example programs for the new
color quickdraw, color controls, windows
and menus?
Also no one has mentioned the support
for hierarchical menus in the Mac II - I
thought I would - and are they also in
the MacSE ROMs?
(Maui & Becks) PC-compatible cards are available from 3rd parties...
not from Apple. Apple is developing for the IWM (Sony)
chip that will read the MFM format used on IBM 3.5" disk
drives. Example programs: don't know right now, but...
John will check whether the current test programs can...
be uploaded. yes, the SE and II support hierarchical menus, and ...
this facility will be available on the Plus via...
patches in RAM eventually.
(Dan Cochran) David, example programs are a cop-out!!
(DavidI/Borland) oh dan - please?
(Dan Cochran) Where's that pioneering spirit?
(Russ Finn/MicroPros) What kind of mechanism would exist for telling Color
QuickDraw to work with a graphics co-processor such
as the TMS34010? (I.e., making it output a stream of
instructions, instead of letting it play with the
display memory directly, as "regular" QD does.)
(Maui & Becks) The "bottleneck" routines would have to be hooked into...
and we know of some developers who have done it.
(Russ Finn/MicroPros) In other words, the same mechanisms that are in place
now would be used (presumably SE as well as II)?
(Maui & Becks) Correct.
(Steven Grant) 1) Does Time Manager work properly with Sys 4.0 ...
2) Given new SCSI hardware and old IWM, what happens when...
Time Mnager is activated and disk I/O is in progress? ...
Who wins? Any difference between +, SE, or II ?
(Maui & Becks) Time Manager works OK in Mac II, but we don't know...
about whether System 4.0 patches it in the Plus...
SCSI hardware is not interrupt driven. As to priority...
of IWM vs. timer, sorry, we do not know.
(Bob Finch) 1. What version of Unix is A/Ux based on (Sys V rel 2 or 3
(streams would be nice))
(Bob Finch) 2. Will A/Ux be a major product of Apple?
(Maui & Becks) Sys V rel 3. No more or less major than other products. It's...
a real product, with a lot of work behind it, and it...
will be supported.
(Joe Schrader) 1) Will calls to the SANE package AUTOMATICALLY...
go through the 68881 math coprocessor on the SE...
and II (like on the Prodigy) or will it up to the...
DEVELOPER to detect and fully support the chip...
2) Will the OS ever alleviate the need to call...
SystemTask in the main loop? (kind of clumsy)
(Maui & Becks) There is no 68881 on the SE. On the II, we aren't sure...
about the automatic part. Re SystemTask: "ever" is...
a long time. No reason to drop your SystemTask calls...
in the foreseeable future.
(Joe Schrader) Thanks. The Levco board may still be faster than the II then
(Maui & Becks) We have reached an agreement...
SANE will automatically use the 68881; but if you want...
to bypass the SANE trap calls, then you must link with...
an appropriate library, and specify the appropriate...
compiler options.
(Dan Cochran) Point is...you can get to the 881 directly...
(but don't tell anybody I suggested it).
(Wayne Rasband) Is the Mac II NuBus as fast as the MIT/TI NuBus? Also ..
Is anyone developing an A/D card for the Mac II?
(Maui & Becks) Re comparitive speed: dunno. (Speak to us...
softly in software.) A/D card: yes, but can't recall...
company off hand.
(Dan Cochran) Expect to see several A/D cards for the Mac II...
I can't give out any CO names yet. .
(Doug Gilbert) quick note on the SANE, I think that PACK 4 (floats) will go
to the 881 but that PACK 5 (trigs) will still use software for _exact_
compatability. M&B, Is there a flag for the 68851 that is similar to
the 68881 flag at address $B22 to tell applications that a PMMU is
installed?
(Maui & Becks) Yes.
(Doug Gilbert) where?
(Maui & Becks) As best we recall, it is HWConfig, but don't recall...
the bit offhand.
What bit is it, Dan?
(Dan Cochran) It's between 4 and 18....
(can't remember offhand).
(Bob Finch) Did your comment about Mac Toolbox compatibility...
in A/UX imply that an existing Mac app will run...
under A/UX without re-compiling/linking? If so...
resource forks in the U*ix file system must be...
interesting.
(Maui & Becks) Some applications can run without changes. There are some
minor limitations, but nothing major. A resource fork is
just an organization of data - nothing system specific
about it. BTW, the 68851 PMMU is indicated by bit 11 of HwCfgFlags.
(Stew Rubenstein) Can anyone tell me why an F-line handler can't be written for
the 020 so that SANE is called if there is no coprocessor
present to handle the copro instructions? Seems a lot faster
than going the other way... Second - How does the Mac ]['s MMU
work with normal mac applications? Can an application now
have read-only sections? virtual memory?
(Maui & Becks) Coprocessor is standard in the II. There is no present
role for the PMMU in the normal Macintosh OS.
(Stew Rubenstein) but can't a similar f-line handler work on se?
(Maui & Becks) Could be done, but SANE provides automatic support for
floating point already. If you want to write your own
68881/F-line handler for additional SE hardware (SE has no FP remember)
(FP chip, that is) you're on your own anyway.
(Stew Rubenstein) My point is, why is SANE called via an A trap when motorola
kindly provided definitions of F line istructions for
floating point? they would work on both.
(Maui & Becks) We don't know why.
(DavidI/Borland) MPW Pascal 2.0A1 gens code for the 68881
directly, will the MPW beta C gen code
to support the 68881? I need high speed
(Maui & Becks) Presently, no. Don't know of future plans, but we'd assume so.
(DavidI/Borland) Should I use Consulair C?
(Maui & Becks) Consulair C is a good choice for direct 68881 support.
(Jim Gagnon) There's a good reason why apple
isn't supporting Sane throught the $F traps.
SANE uses 80 bit extendeds and so does the 68881
However, the 68881 stores its extendeds in
a 96 bit format and is unusable to sane
Sane would need a re-write to work.
(Fred Hebard) What software comes with II (Unix, vain hope)? How much $
& how fast is SE?..
and, I'm glad to see you guys getting giddy.
(Maui & Becks) Same software comes with II as comes with Plus. Unix is
definitely an add-on item....
SE is about $2800 and is about 20% faster due to a change
in the way video is handled.
Giddy? We resemble that remark.
(Fred Hebard) That was directed to everyone!
(Donald [Sysop]) What new connectors are you springing on us with these
machines?
(Maui & Becks) The Nubus connectors are new. The printer and modem...
and SCSI connectors are the same. The mouse and...
keyboard connectors are new.
(Dan Cochran) M&B failed to mention the new DB-58 connector for
the stereo sound port on the II.
(Maui & Becks) True, we didn't mention a DB-58 (is that an RCA mini?)
(Ray Sanders) WILL THE 256K ROM'S BE APPLICABLE TO THE MAC PLUS ?
(Maui & Becks) no.
(Peabo/ICONtact) suppose I write an app for a color-rich environment like
the 8-bit monitor is there anything in the new toolbox that makes it
easy to downgrade at runtime. to the monochrome ... and ...
to render screen images for printing (hi res laser pattersn, for ex)?
(Maui & Becks) Re the color-rich application: it'll work fine without...
change on lower color density or monochrome systems...
QD automatically maps colors to their "best" equivalent...
at any resolution, although some contrast may be lost...
That also applies to printing. ]
(Wayne Rasband) Is there any memory management hardware other than the
optional 68851?
(Maui & Becks) No. (Why would there be?)
(Wayne Rasband) I saw mention of an Apple MMU.
(Maui & Becks) There is no Apple MMU -- maybe you mean a small PC board...
that fits in the PMMU socket if there is no 68851.
(Stew Rubenstein) Ugh, I finally got out the 68881 manual that's been
gathering dust on my shelf and noticed that 96-bit
memory format for extendeds. yech...
Will the next version of MPW C support Pascal string glue?
I have worked with both paradigms, first in MegaMax
which auto converted C to P strings and back like MPW,
then with Lightspeed which lets me do the conversion
myself, if I want (I usually don't).
Personally, I much prefer the Lightspeed scheme.
Also - anything new on Postscript support in the new roms?
(Dan Cochran) I'm not sure but I think that the new MPW C...
will indeed be supporting Pascal strings...
at least I saw something to that effect...
in a memo floating across my desk. Jim F.or M&B (who are these masked
men anyway?). Can you shed any additional light? .
(Maui & Becks) You've always been able to link with the Pascal libs...
and pass full points and Pascal strings. This requires...
using different header files (which are available on...
e.g., MacDev). I (Russ) have been able to port between
LSC and MPW C with no changes.
(Stew Rubenstein) What is MacDev?
Current ROMs know nothing of PostScript. The printer...
driver handles the translation. MacDev is the *real* name of...
AppDev, the MAUG Forum in which we are now CO-ing.
(Bill Andersen) OPOK Dan Tell me more about color res & etc... on II
(Maui & Becks) Near photographic does not begin to describe it.
(Dan Cochran) But pornographic does...
(Maui & Becks) You mean Cheryl?
(Dan Cochran) You ain't seen Cheryl Tiegs till...
you've seen her on a II!!
(Bill Andersen) Dan's been on the R-rated dl again!
(Peter Polash) Guys, since it sounds like many Mac app's will run as is
under a/ux can we expect them also to run concurrently under same?
i.e. Mac
(Maui & Becks) You can run multiple A/UX tasks.
Currently only one of them can be a pre-existing Mac
application. All of them can get to the toolbox though.
(William R. Smook) should a user update
his/her files to the new sys/finder
if you have an mac +? what is the best policy now?
(Dan Cochran) Bill...Stick with 3.2 and 5.3 for now...
Although you can use 4.0 and 5.4 you don't
really gain much. Later this spring we'll
introduce some universal software for all
Mac's except the 128. But if you are
using Appleshare then you must update to
3.3 or 4.0. .
(Jim Friedlander) If I have a color QuickDraw image that uses, say 256 colors
can I print it with no further ado, will the print drivers
make the translation to gray?
(Maui & Becks) Yes, the driver will xlate to some shade of gray
(Peabo/ICONtact) back in the bad old days ...
before the mac, many graphics packages used standards like CORE and GKS ...
perhaps especially CAD/CAM packages ...
are there plans to offer CORE or GKS drivers to fit on top of ...
(Maui & Becks) We've heard some talk in the halls about its being a...
nice idea, but don't know of any specific plans.
(Peter Polash) 1) Any guess how soon we can expect Plus Rom patches for the
hierarchical menus?
2) Will the finder run as a job under a/ux ?
3) Who are M&B ?
(Maui & Becks) Late spring or early summer. Finder will not run as a...
job uner A/Ux. Maui and Becks have been the code names...
for several months for the Mac SE and Mac II respectively.
We are John Mitchell, Russ Wetmore, Lew Rollins, and...
Steve Brecher.
(Bill S [Sysop]) Would you suppose that a msdos coprocessor
running in the ][ would show up as a window
in the mac o/s, or would it likely take over the
machine? Also, in either case, would the hard drive
be partitionable? I don't comment on unannounced
products either, but since their not your...
(Maui & Becks) Gee, we haven't seen the card operate, but (just guessing!)
we'd suppose not as a window in the Mac environment. Yes,
the HD would be partitionable. There is a new Manager...
called the Logical Volume Manager.
(Larry Masinter) 1) under multi-tasking, how is it decided who gets the
users events?....
(Larry Masinter) 2) what are the changes to quickdraw to handle color?
(Maui & Becks) Uh, what multi-tasking?... There is no change from the...
Plus in this respect. Do you mean under A/Ux? Same...
as in every flavor of Unix. Color: a whole slew of...
enhancements. A full description would take too long...
to go into here... you'll be able to read all about it...
in Inside Macintosh vol. 5. Also note that there is...
a developer's conference in Santa Clara April 1,2,3 (we
just thought we'd throw that reminder in.)
(Larry Masinter) does apda have the inside v5?
(Dan Cochran) Larry...APDA doesn't have IM V yet but will
soon. Expect that they will begin shipping
beta-versions of IM V 5 by mid-March at the latest..
(Larry Masinter) the task management in the sun window system is
pretty complex...
(Neil/Sysop) Some magazine editor somewhere suggested that a nice
plug-in card for the Mac II might be an Apple IIgs card. Without
commenting on any product development per se... Would this be a
possible idea to window an Apple IIgs environment in a Mac II?
(Maui & Becks) We'd prefer to see a Mac II plug-in card for the gs...
Anything is possible.
(Randy Waki) Do you guys think the Mac II's color monitor is good enough to
replace the B&W (for things like programming, telecomm, etc.)?
(Dan Cochran) I do. Unlike an IBM color monitor in B&W mode...
the Macintosh color monitor really can disguise
itself. When I see a Mac II the only clue I have
as to the existence of a color monitor is the
colored Apple menu. Other comments?
(Jim Friedlander) SOny
(Dan Cochran) nuff said.
(DavidI/Borland) Have/will the machine parameter
constants be changed from Paris and
FreePort to MacII and MacSE? Or What?
Also for the notification manager, is
anything displayed in level 2 other than
the changing ICON (in the apple place)?
Can you get more explanation for what
the level 2 is?
Can I stand the MacII vertically to get
it off the desk? Will the hard disk go bonkers?
(Maui & Becks) Don't know what you mean by parameter constants...
(parameter RAM?) The Notification Manager is on hold...
Vertically: we're not sure.
(DavidI/Borland) By the parameters...
I mean the machine ID constants in IM V chapter 1 page 5
(Maui & Becks) Yes, they will be changed: you have a developer, pre-release
version of the document. It occurs to us that since...
the airflow is side to side in the II there could be
problems standing it on its side.
(Dana D. Hoch) I'm convinced, can I order my Mac II...
from the dealer tomorrow. I have an Apple
credit card that is burning a hole in my pocket.
(Maui & Becks) Yes, you can order it. But you'll have to wait a few...
months for delivery. Or, send $6995 in cash to...
Nevermind.
(Dan Cochran) Given availability, the current street price
for a Mac II is $6,300,435. If you really want to
run up your Apple Credit Card I'd suggest buying
10 years of an AppleCare warranty....
(Dana D. Hoch) I plan on winning the lottery tomororrw
(Maui & Becks) Could we have some SERIOUS QUESTIONS here? We are...
serious people.
We eat SERIOUS Cookies.
(Bill S [Sysop]) right
(Peabo/ICONtact) is the II GS RGB Analog monitor a different animal from
the Mac II color monitor and how much noise does the II make compared
to an HD 20 SC and (serious question) ...
what is a Mac II's favorite color?
(Maui & Becks) The two monitors are different. We can't say about the...
noise, because we've worked only with prototypes. A...
Mac II's favorite color is set via the Control Panel and...
is used for highlighting.
(Larry Masinter) What were the top priorities for MacII evelopment?
(Dan Cochran) 1) Expandability (slots)
2) More Power (68020/68881)
3) Larger Screen Size (open video architecture)
4) Compatibility (runs existing applications)
5) Money (Stock to 100 by year end).
(Larry Masinter) Color isn't on your list?
(Maui & Becks) Actually, the prime design criterion was providing...
a good host for MPW.
(DavidI/Borland) ha
(Dan Cochran) Larry...color is important and you'll only believe
it when you see it. .
(Maui & Becks) Amen.
(Bill S [Sysop]) amen #2
(DavidI/Borland) Does the MIDI sound manager use up both
serial ports or just one? Are there 4
channels for sound? How is stereo done?
And, how is the 24 and 32 bit addressing
handled? Can you mix modes?
(Maui & Becks) MIDI sound manager is hardware dependent -- Apple has...
not announced any MIDI-specific hardware. The Sound...
Manager acts merely as a high-level shell to send commands...
to synthesizers, which can be either hard- or software...
based. The number of channels depends on the synth...
Stereo is done by sending some sounds to the left...
speaker and other sounds to the right speaker. :) ...
The machine runs in 24 bit mode; there is a trap to...
switch modes, which should be used only by OSs. The...
application should preserve 32 bits of address, however...
for future compatibility. BSET #7,(A0) is a no-no!
(DavidI/Borland) Are there speaker outputs on the Mac II - i didn't
notice them?
(Maui & Becks) There is an RCA mini stereo socket on the back. Inside...
there is only a small mono speaker. You can make some...
great "beeps," though.
(Dan Cochran) Stereo jack on production units.
(DavidI/Borland) How is speach done?
(Jose Uribe) By moving your tongue along the keyboard.
(Dan Cochran) No immediate MacinTalk support. Digitized speech...
will be the way to go. Maybe some enterprising
third-party in Scott's Valley or someplace will do
some high-quality speech synthesis software. .
(Maui & Becks) Turbo-Talk?
(DavidI/Borland) Sure
(Peabo/ICONtact) if I get 8 megs of memory in a II and don't have a PMMU ...
can I use all 8? where does the 4 megs that won't fit "under the ROM" ..
go? ...
(Bill S [Sysop]) over the rainbow?
(Peabo/ICONtact) and (2) does AppleShare work with EtherTalk?
(Maui & Becks) The ROM is where it always has been: at (ROMBase). (2)...
Not at present.
Note ROMBase on the II = $40800000.
Yes, it's a 32-bit address. $40800000. No kidding. Really.
(Larry Masinter) Can add-on boards on the nu-bus access all of the processor
memory? Start and stop the 68020? Same for the MacSE?
(Maui & Becks) SE: definitely -- full CPU access. II: ...
it's less clear to us right now. That's merely our...
ignorance, not an unfinished design!
(DavidI/Borland) you guys are great. IBM would never do something like this.
Will there be a vide tape of the show down south this morning?
(Maui & Becks) There are video tapes, but we don't know if *Apple* will..
be providing same. We are insanely great, aren't we?
(Gary Kato) Will the new Macs run Lisa 7/7?
(Jim Friedlander) sheesh
(DavidI/Borland) ho ho
(Hawwy Baby) <hehehehe>
(Maui & Becks) Yes, but v e r y slowly.
(Donald [Sysop]) M&B, you mean, like a Lisa did?
(Dan Cochran) Only under UNIX.
(Larry Masinter) guys, you gotta :-> when you tell jokes like that
(Bill S [Sysop]) does dark castle run on the ][? on the SE?
(Jim Friedlander) on the SE, yes
(Peter Polash) 1) Will the ][ ( and the SE ) have QD enhancements for
doing in QD some of the postscript things like bitmap rotation etc.
2) How soon will SE & Mac ][ memory beyond 1 meg be available from
Apple. (Or is it now for the SE ?)
3) Do I understand correctly that the minimum config for SE will be
two 800K drives. (Does anyone agree thats a shame?)
(Maui & Becks) (1) No. (2) 2nd qtr 1987. (3)...
Minimum SE config is 1 800K. , anyone.
(Jim Friedlander) 1 800k?
(Maui & Becks) Jim.. want to correct us on the SE?
(Jim Friedlander) I'm not sure, just thought it always had 2 drives
(Peter Polash) WSJ says 2 drive min
(Maui & Becks) OK, we're not sure.
(Maui & Becks) WSJ must be right, because they got it from press reports...
(Dan Cochran) The system file & finder are under 800K total so you...
could use it...theoretically.
But I can't even get by on my Mac+ with a single 800K
drive. .
(Larry Masinter) 1) How many square inches on a II board? SE?
(Larry Masinter) 2) What's the protocol used on EtherTalk?
(Maui & Becks) EtherNet and AppleTalk. ...
II board is about 9" by 16" (+- 400%).
(Larry Masinter) 9 " by 16 " is very big, for a desktop, isn't it?
(Dana D. Hoch) +- 400%
(Gary Kato) Will they reduce all those PALs on the II board?
(Maui & Becks) larger footprint than the Mac Plus/SE, true.
We're not hardware engineers, sorry.
(Donald [Sysop]) Are SE's with the hard disk available for immediate
shipment?
(Maui & Becks) Yes.
And with that, the formal conference was brought to an end.