jg@eagle.ukc.ac.uk (J.Grant) (06/05/87)
I have been offered a Lisa (Mac XL) 2/5 at what seems a reasonable price, before I take the plunge is there anything that I should know? I was told that most software was compatible (all but those that directly address the sound & the screen), but that could mean anything ! Would someone be kind enough to enlighten me about the problems that I might be buying myself into! Mention was also made that various cards have been/are produced that fit the Lisa (esp. processor upgrades that would put the machine on a similar footing to the MAC II, although I have taken this with a copious amont of salt, is it actually true ?). On a slightly different tack, mention has been made of using cmd-K to create the complete postscript file when printing, I can get cmd-F to work ok, but K goes completely unnoticed, ok guys what did I do wrong ?
han@apple.UUCP (06/07/87)
In article <3077@eagle.ukc.ac.uk>, jg@eagle.ukc.ac.uk (J.Grant) writes: > > I have been offered a Lisa (Mac XL) 2/5 at what seems a reasonable > price, before I take the plunge is there anything that I should know? > > I was told that most software was compatible (all but those that > directly address the sound & the screen), but that could mean anything !... > ... Mention was also made that various cards > have been/are produced that fit the Lisa (esp. processor upgrades > that would put the machine on a similar footing to the MAC II, although > I have taken this with a copious amont of salt, is it actually true ?). Most of the new software coming out will only support the 128K ROM's and above. I personally would not recommend buying a used Mac XL (Lisa) because it is far slower than even a vanilla Macintosh. Large screens can be had for the Macintosh family either real screens or screen extenders like Stepping Out(tm) which creates a virtual screen with the Mac screen being a window onto it. There is also a shareware? BigScreen Init which does something similar albeit without as many features. Buying a Mac XL would probably lead to disappointment and disillusionment. You would be far better off (in this humble poster's opinion) to save your moullah and buy a Mac Plus, SE, or Mac II. ===================================================================== Byron Han | UUCP: {sun,voder,nsc,mtxinu,dual}!apple!han Apple Computer, Inc. | CSNET: han@apple.csnet 20525 Mariani Ave, | ATTNet: 408-973-6450 Cupertino, CA 95014 | GENIE: BYRONHAN MS 27Y | CSERVE: 72167,1664 ===================================================================== All opinions and statements do not necessarily represent those of my employer, Apple Computer Inc. =====================================================================
russ@oakhill.UUCP (Russell Schwausch) (06/09/87)
In article <947@apple.UUCP> han@apple.UUCP (Byron Han) writes: >In article <3077@eagle.ukc.ac.uk>, jg@eagle.ukc.ac.uk (J.Grant) writes: >> >> I have been offered a Lisa (Mac XL) 2/5 at what seems a reasonable >> price, before I take the plunge is there anything that I should know? >> >> I was told that most software was compatible (all but those that >> directly address the sound & the screen), but that could mean anything !... >> ... Mention was also made that various cards >> have been/are produced that fit the Lisa (esp. processor upgrades >> that would put the machine on a similar footing to the MAC II, although >> I have taken this with a copious amont of salt, is it actually true ?). > >Most of the new software coming out will only support the 128K ROM's and >above. > >I personally would not recommend buying a used Mac XL (Lisa) because it is far >slower than even a vanilla Macintosh. Large screens can be had for the >Macintosh family either real screens or screen extenders like Stepping Out(tm) >which creates a virtual screen with the Mac screen being a window onto it. >There is also a shareware? BigScreen Init which does something similar >albeit without as many features. > >Buying a Mac XL would probably lead to disappointment and disillusionment. >You would be far better off (in this humble poster's opinion) to save your >moullah and buy a Mac Plus, SE, or Mac II. > >Byron Han | UUCP: {sun,voder,nsc,mtxinu,dual}!apple!han >Apple Computer, Inc. | CSNET: han@apple.csnet I concur completely with Byron's recommendation. Speaking from experience (I have been trying to use a Mac XL for several months; my boss's boss is to cheap to buy me a Mac SE [|-) ) the Mac XL with an internal hard disk is almost as slow as a Mac with floppies. It is also a big pain in the posterior to use 400K floppies; some of the newer applications can barely be squeezed on one of these tiny floppies; and backups are a hassle. And furthermore, several applications I have used on the Mac XL (specifically Word 3.0, MacDraft 1.2a, & Cricket Graph 1.1) bomb frequently on a Mac XL but hardly ever on a Mac+. The MFS file system on the Mac XL is also a hassle. I have been looking for a way to upgrade my XL to an 800K floppy and HFS but I am sure it would be cheaper to start with a Mac+. I didn't have a choice but you do. -- Russell Schwausch, Motorola Inc., OakHill, Tx. (A suburb of Austin) UUCP: {harvard,ihnp4,seismo,gatech,nbires}..!ut-sally!oakhill!russ Ma Bell: (512)440-2426 It's a ticket agent, it's a fare collector, no ... it's SUPERCONDUCTOR!!!
roberts@cognos.uucp (Robert Stanley) (06/09/87)
In article <947@apple.UUCP> han@apple.UUCP writes: >In article <3077@eagle.ukc.ac.uk>, jg@eagle.ukc.ac.uk (J.Grant) writes: >> >> I have been offered a Lisa (Mac XL) 2/5 at what seems a reasonable >> price, before I take the plunge is there anything that I should know? > >Buying a Mac XL would probably lead to disappointment and disillusionment. >You would be far better off (in this humble poster's opinion) to save your >moullah and buy a Mac Plus, SE, or Mac II. > The Lisa is a super, super machine, beautifully engineered, utterly reliable, and loaded with nice features. It is N O T a Macintosh of any kind. It can sort of be used as a Mac via a set of ROM upgrades and the MacWorks software, but be prepared to accept an arbitrary list of non-runners, and to put up with endless idiosyncrasies. If you are a serious hacker, prepared to get inside system code and patch, you can actually make almost everything Macish work, but this is a very expensive (of time) option. If you start playing with the hardware configuration, be prepared to create your own versions of almost all key system software. Also, hardware expansions are not cheap, and lead you into the world of who is responsible for maintaining what. I have one Lisa officially AppleCared as a Mac/XL (costs more than a Lisa), but I also have a very friendly local Mac dealer who turns a relatively blind eye to one or two "minor" hardware hacks. Memory beyond 2 meg, internal disk > 10 meg, double-sided floppy, co-processor boards, video-tap for extended screen all have to be separately maintained, and necessitate fairly intimate hardware knowledge. I run a fair amount of Mac software simply for compatibility with some of my working environments, but all serious work I do via either the Lisa workshop and home-grown software, or under a proprietary OS to access auxilliary hardware functions. If you want a Mac, buy a Mac. Robert Stanley <<he had a mind like a steel trap; firmly closed!>> -- Robert Stanley decvax!utzoo!dciem!nrcaer!cognos!roberts Voice: (613) 738-1440 (on EST) Tuesdays only don't ask-----' Cognos Inc., 3755 Riverside Drive, Ottawa, Ontario, K1G 3N3 CANADA
mentat@ut-ngp.UUCP (Robert Dorsett) (06/10/87)
In article <903@oakhill.UUCP> russ@oakhill.UUCP (Russell Schwausch) writes: > the Mac XL with an internal hard disk is >almost as slow as a Mac with floppies. It is also a big pain in the posterior >to use 400K floppies; some of the newer applications can barely be squeezed on >one of these tiny floppies; and backups are a hassle. >And furthermore, several applications I have used on the Mac XL (specifically >Word 3.0, MacDraft 1.2a, & Cricket Graph 1.1) bomb frequently on a Mac XL >but hardly ever on a Mac+. The MFS file system on the Mac XL is also a hassle. >I have been looking for a way to upgrade my XL to an 800K floppy and HFS but >I am sure it would be cheaper to start with a Mac+. I didn't have a choice but >you do. > I disagree with Russell. The original question was about the Lisa 2/5, NOT the Mac XL. The XL ISquite slow; however, the 2/5 (external (and noisy) 5-meg Profile) runs about three times faster than a 400K Mac drive. The Lisa is a nice computer. The speed penalties are tolerable if one is not used to, say, a MacPlus with a hard disk. The screen is a nice way of justifying it, and the vertical distortion does nice things to text (the dots aren't quite as apparent on text). If it's a question of spending say, $3K for a MacPlus or $1K for a used Lisa, I'd buy the Lisa any day. The only reason I'm not currently using one is that I need an easier computer to write and debug software on (i.e., a Mac with an interrupt switch). I haven't had any major problems with Word 3.0. I have come to expect poor quality control from Microsoft products, at least on the first release. As for MacDraft, it bombedfrequently on my 512K Mac. I haven't tried it since I upgraded the 512K to a Plus. Probably won't... I'll be playing with HFS on a Lisa, as well as modifying the internal 400K drive, in the next few weeks. Stay tuned... -- Robert Dorsett ARPA: mentat@ngp.utexas.edu The University of Texas at Austin UUCP: {ihnp4,seismo,sally}!ngp!mentat UTAustin: mentat@walt.cc.utexas.edu
sunny@hoptoad.uucp (Sunny David Kirsten) (06/19/87)
You can currently be running a Mac XL with 2Meg of RAM, be able to
switch between the Lisa ROMs and screen configuration and the Mac XL
ROMs and screen size, running HFS, and get a 20Meg internal hard drive
to replace either the Lisa 2/5's external 5Meg profile, or the internal
widget drive of the Lisa 2/10. Also you can use external Profiles
(5 or 10 Meg). I use 'em, they work fine. AND.. there's a rumor that
Apple is working on MacWorks XL 4.0 which will emulate the 128K ROMS
rather than just the old 64K ROMS emulated with MacWorks XL 3.0.
All of the above, except the vaporware MacWorks XL 4.0 are available
from NetWorkers International Inc, 8 Mariposa Ave, San Anselmo, CA
(415)454-7607. Hmm.. well, I got my 2Meg RAM card (RAMSTAK) from AST...
not sure NII got's 2Meg cards yet. RAMSTAKs are available from DAFAX
in New (York?Jersey?).
--
David Kirsten
Astral Consultants
(415)457-7555
POB 459
Forest Knolls, CA 94933
USENET: {sun,ptsfa,well,lll-crg,ihnp4,ucsfcgl,nsc,frog}!hoptoad!sunny