wrs@k.cs.cmu.edu (Walter Smith) (06/23/87)
It seems to me that since the Control Panel is now fully extensible (nice
job, by the way), the Chooser is superfluous. Why isn't there a "Printers"
cdev that lets you set the current printer (which darn well tells you what
printer you're already using, unlike the Chooser) and other cdevs for
whatever file servers, mail servers, or other weird stuff you install?
It seems that the difference in functionality between the Chooser and the
Control Panel is not at all well defined. How does one decide where things
like "Startup Device" go? You're choosing a startup device, right? The
cdev just displays a list of startup devices, from which one is chosen,
right? Sounds like a Chooser task to me. Choosing which file server to use
seems just as valid in the Control Panel as in the Chooser. When I first
used AppleShare, I wandered around for about five minutes trying to figure
out how to log in. Never occurred to me to look in the Chooser.
The Chooser is a bunch of AppleTalk stuff added to Choose Printer, retaining
the serial port assignment task and adding near-arbitrary extension
capability with which all sorts of strange things are being added. It seems
like these two extensible configuration-changing DAs are competing with each
other for functionality. Remember when turning AppleTalk on and off bounced
around between the Control Panel and Choose Printer/Chooser?
Having both of these things seems like unnecessary confusion and, less
importantly, waste of the precious, arbitrarily limited DA space.
Now that I've said all this, I would be most interested if one of those
wonderful Apple people out there would ask the person who made the decision
to maintain this separation (or failed to make the decision to stop it) what
the rationale was. Getting an answer would be an impressive boost for
Apple's building reputation for openness...
- Walt
--
Walter Smith, Math/CS undergraduate, Carnegie-Mellon University
CS graduate student starting August!
uucp: ...!seismo!cmu-cs-k!wrs ARPA: wrs@k.cs.cmu.edu
usps: 5139 Forbes Ave.; Pittsburgh, PA 15213jww@sdcsvax.UCSD.EDU (Joel West) (07/05/87)
I'm certainly well aware of the rationale behind Walt's comparisons,
but I'd have to disagree with his conclusions.
I want both Chooser and Control Panel. They're both very
important and getting crowded, and I don't want them to get
even more crowded combining the two. For example, burying
Chooser within Control Panel adds an extra level to go through
each time you choose. This is the same reason that a well-designed
program includes menu items for common functions rather than
burying it in a dialog somewhere.
Quite frankly, I don't think the loss of DA space is that serious.
Sure, some collectors want to have 47 da's installed (I have about that many
in suitcase files on my hard disk), but you only use 3 or 4 with
any frequency, certainly not 12. The Other.. and QQ (double Apple) DA's
handle the remainder rather nicely.
So my request is to keep both, and add functionality to each, where
appropriate.
--
Joel West, Palomar Software, Inc. (c/o UCSD)
{ucbvax,ihnp4}!sdcsvax!jww or jww@sdcsvax.ucsd.eduabr@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Adam B Rosen) (07/05/87)
In article <1170@k.cs.cmu.edu> wrs@k.cs.cmu.edu (Walter Smith) writes: >It seems to me that since the Control Panel is now fully extensible (nice >job, by the way), the Chooser is superfluous. Why isn't there a "Printers" >cdev that lets you set the current printer (which darn well tells you what >printer you're already using, unlike the Chooser) and other cdevs for >whatever file servers, mail servers, or other weird stuff you install? > >It seems that the difference in functionality between the Chooser and the >Control Panel is not at all well defined. How does one decide where things >like "Startup Device" go? You're choosing a startup device, right? The >cdev just displays a list of startup devices, from which one is chosen, >right? Sounds like a Chooser task to me. Choosing which file server to use >seems just as valid in the Control Panel as in the Chooser. When I first >used AppleShare, I wandered around for about five minutes trying to figure >out how to log in. Never occurred to me to look in the Chooser. > >The Chooser is a bunch of AppleTalk stuff added to Choose Printer, retaining >the serial port assignment task and adding near-arbitrary extension >capability with which all sorts of strange things are being added. It seems >like these two extensible configuration-changing DAs are competing with each >other for functionality. Remember when turning AppleTalk on and off bounced >around between the Control Panel and Choose Printer/Chooser? > >Having both of these things seems like unnecessary confusion and, less >importantly, waste of the precious, arbitrarily limited DA space. > This is a good point. Before I acquired my own Mac and began using it extensively I was often confused as to where to set the various things necessary to print something out. The chooser always seemed to be the most undefined DA that one HAD to use if they switched between ImageWriter and LaserWriter. Having had a fair amount of experience using various different kinds of computers and still being puzzled over this at first made me wonder how many non-technical people struggled with this too. Putting both Control Panel and Chooser functions together seems logical, and the Control Panel seems the best place; from here you set all the switches the machine requires. Also, I think the Print option should be somewhat standardized among applications. There should be a line that says "CURRENT PRINTER IS: {ImageWriter, LaserWriter, etc} in the usual ImageWriter, LaserWriter dialog box, and then a click-button which says "CHANGE PRINTER". Choosing Change Printer would automatically invoke the Control Panel DA, with Choose Printer module selected, and, after you made your choice, you would be returned to the chosen printer's dialog box. The AppleTalk on/off switch could be in the printer module also. Something along these lines would obviate the need for Chooser, make things easier all around and build upon the new (and improved) modular Control Panel. Adam B. Rosen
shibumi@well.UUCP (Kenton Abbott Hoover) (07/06/87)
In article <1170@k.cs.cmu.edu> wrs@k.cs.cmu.edu (Walter Smith) writes: >It seems that the difference in functionality between the Chooser and the >Control Panel is not at all well defined. How does one decide where things The difference is this: control panel items are things uneffected (affected?) by outside events, like the dimwit in the next cubicle turning the laser printer off. I agree with your comments about DA space, but the solution to this might be coming soon (he says cryptically :->)... -- ! Kenton A. Hoover {hoptoad,hplabs,lll-lcc,ptsfa}!well!shibumi ! ! SNAIL: 1748 Clement Street ! ! Prescriptive Technology San Francisco, CA 94121 ! ! "Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb!" !
mo@well.UUCP (Maurice Weitman) (07/06/87)
In article <1170@k.cs.cmu.edu> wrs@k.cs.cmu.edu (Walter Smith) writes: >It seems to me that since the Control Panel is now fully extensible (nice >job, by the way), the Chooser is superfluous. [ many good reasons for adding Chooser to Control Panel ...] One reason I like Chooser as a separate DA is that it's much faster to come up than Control Panel: 2.1 seconds vs. 7.5 seconds (on a Mac II). Another is that there's a clear differentiation between the two: Chooser affects network-related resources, while Control Panel concerns the user's Mac only. The only real objection I have to Chooser being separate is the DA slot it uses, and that is something that will no longer be a problem, RSN, right Steve? -- Maurice Weitman ..!{dual,hplabs,lll-crg,ptsfa,glacier}!well!mo | <- this is not a pipe POBox 10019 Berkeley, CA 94709 (415)549-0280 Quote: "What a revoltin' development this is." Maurizio T. Butthead, 1986 Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors.