lip@masscomp.UUCP (John Lipinski) (10/24/85)
>> You don't believe it Larry?? What would you do if I told you that I don't >> even like Led Zep IV that much?? Why is The Wall "history's stupidest >> concept album?? Because it's the true story of Roger Water's life?? Maybe >> you don't like depressing music but I happen to thrive on it and I think >> that the Wall is an incredible album. [PAUL KIRSCH] >Not to flame you, Paul (I agree with your rebuttal to Palena wholeheartedly), >but although I've liked some of the music from "The Wall", I can't help but >think that as a whole it is a ridiculously self-indulgent egotistical >whining exercise on the part of Roger Waters. [ROSEN] I agree that "The Wall" reflects at times the self-indulgent and egotistical tendencies of the writer. However, that's not enough for it to be called "ridiculous". In fact, I think many artists (assuming Roger Waters is an artist) share these same qualities and tendencies. Eccentricities and obseessions often are characteristics of exceptional artists. For example, John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, Picasso, Beethoven, Dostoyevsky, Milton, ... I think to single Roger Waters out by calling "The Wall" "ridiculous" is unfair. He was clearly obsessed with (the seeming futility of) his life, his mistakes, and his relationships. I really think it is an exceptional thematic work. He as a person may not be appreciable but "The Wall" as an expression of his feelings is. >I recall reading his >insistence at the time of the recording of "The Wall" that HE *was* Pink >Floyd, that the band was his ideas, his vision, his music. The whole theme and >content seemed symptomatic of the whiny "singer-songwriter" motif wherein >the singer talks about his incredible problems in life and blames them >all on the other people around him (often MOTOS's). [ROSEN] Again, you may be confusing the image of the person seen through his art with the art itself. Surely, there is an inseparable relation between the person and the work but the likable or admirable qualities of one aren't necessarily present in the other. - John Lipinski ihnp4!masscomp!lip
nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) (10/25/85)
> From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) > Not to flame you, Paul (I agree with your rebuttal to Palena > wholeheartedly), but although I've liked some of the music from "The > Wall", I can't help but think that as a whole it is a ridiculously > self-indulgent egotistical whining exercise on the part of Roger > Waters. Hey! You're maligning here the album that made me realize that there is other music in the world besides The Beatles and the soundtrack to "Hair". I can even get Kate Bush to back me up. (Everyone here would respect her opinion, right? :-j) She said that after she heard "The Wall" she almost couldn't write music again, because she thought at the time that it said "everything there is to say". In any case, perhaps "The Wall" is "rediculously self-indulgent egotistical whining"? But so? A lot of his problems are universal, and he doesn't endlessly repeat one certain complaint or anything. He criticises just about everything, and I agree with him on most of them too. He puts it all wonderfully poetically, and the music is incredibly atmospheric. "The Wall" is a masterpiece of musical imagery. > I recall reading his insistence at the time of the recording of "The > Wall" that HE *was* Pink Floyd, that the band was his ideas, his > vision, his music. Well everyone knows that Roger Waters is a complete asshole, but that doesn't mean he doesn't make good music. Besides, by the time of "The Wall", Pink Floyd *was* Roger Waters. Richard Wright wasn't doing anything anymore. Nick Mason never did a whole lot, and David Gilmour only does good work when he's collaborating with geniuses (like Roger Waters or Roy Harper, and then he can be amazingly good) -- his solo stuff is pretty medicore. (Roy Harper has said that David Gilmour was the musical heart of the band, but I don't believe it.) > Didn't he go through a divorce around this time? I dunno. One might think so from the movie.... > I ask because two of the biggest "stars" of the moment, Phil Collins > and Sting, bolstered their careers (and found something to write about > endlessly) as a result of divorce, and seem to fit into that same > category. I don't think it's the same because Roger Waters didn't write about that any more than any of the other issues that are themes on the album. "All in all it was Just another brick in The Wall" Doug Alan nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA)
quint@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Amqueue) (10/25/85)
In article <2416@sjuvax.UUCP> kirsch@sjuvax.UUCP (P. Kirsch) writes: >even like Led Zep IV that much?? Why is The Wall "history's stupidest >concept album?? Because it's the true story of Roger Water's life?? Maybe > > Paul Kirsch >{ astrovax | allegra | bpa | burdvax } !sjuvax!kirsch I thought it was from Sid Barrett's life... much of Floyd's stuff seems to be psychologically oriented, form the point of view of a slightly sick psyche... I always thought it was because Barrett went nuts. What's this about Waters? /amqueue
nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) (10/27/85)
> From: quint@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Amqueue) > I thought it was from Sid Barrett's life... much of Floyd's stuff > seems to be psychologically oriented, form the point of view of a > slightly sick psyche... I always thought it was because Barrett went > nuts. What's this about Waters? No, it's about Roger Waters' life. Roger Waters is nuts too. Just not quite as nuts as Syd Barrett. "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" is about Syd. "Come on you raver, you seer of visions, Come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, And shine!" Doug Alan nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA)
vsh@pixel.UUCP (vsh) (10/28/85)
In article <4116@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> quint@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Amqueue) writes: >I thought [The Wall] was from Sid Barrett's life... much of Floyd's stuff seems >to be psychologically oriented, form the point of view of a slightly >sick psyche... I always thought it was because Barrett went nuts. What's >this about Waters? I concur with you, Amqueue; The Wall was Water's (et al) tribute/memorial to everythging that combined to push Sid Barrett over the edge. -- Steve Harris | {allegra|ihnp4|cbosgd|ima|genrad|amd|harvard}!\ Pixel Systems Inc. | wjh12!pixel!vsh 300 Wildwood Street | Woburn, MA 01801 | 617-933-7735 x2314
nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) (10/29/85)
> I concur with you, Amqueue; The Wall was Water's (et al) > tribute/memorial to everythging that combined to push Sid Barrett over > the edge. > Steve Harris | {allegra|ihnp4|cbosgd|ima|genrad|amd|harvard}!\ In the movie, whose poetry does the school teacher make fun of? Not Syd's. "Think I'll buy me a football team" Doug Alan nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA)
quint@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Amqueue) (10/29/85)
Sorry about that last message, I goofed when exiting emacs and I cant seem to cancel it. Here is my *real* reply: In article <236@mit-eddie.UUCP> nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) writes: >> I concur with you, Amqueue; The Wall was Water's (et al) >> tribute/memorial to everythging that combined to push Sid Barrett over >> the edge. > >> Steve Harris | {allegra|ihnp4|cbosgd|ima|genrad|amd|harvard}!\ > >In the movie, whose poetry does the school teacher make fun of? Not >Syd's. > > "Think I'll buy me a football team" > > Doug Alan > nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA) Did Waters write that in his childhood? (does anyone know?) or did the group simply put something in that is identifiably theirs? (isnt money their biggest selling song or something?) Also, if Waters was going through and egomaniacal phase, I could see where he (or anyone) would insert something of thier own rather than someone else's... To me, the Wall seems to be a more complete and elaborate retelling of the tale that the Album Wish You Were Here tells, and I beleive that the general consensus is that WYWH is about Syd... (btw, does anyone know what has happened to him? I heard he was released...). While we are on the topic of The Wall, can someone enlighten me as to the symbolic meaning of the walking hammers? Is this some symbol from Nazi Germany? Or a hallucination by whomever the movie/music is about? Or just some nifty looking stuff? /amqueue
rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (10/30/85)
>>Not to flame you, Paul (I agree with your rebuttal to Palena wholeheartedly), >>but although I've liked some of the music from "The Wall", I can't help but >>think that as a whole it is a ridiculously self-indulgent egotistical >>whining exercise on the part of Roger Waters. [ROSEN] > I agree that "The Wall" reflects at times the self-indulgent and egotistical > tendencies of the writer. However, that's not enough for it to be called > "ridiculous". In fact, I think many artists (assuming Roger Waters is an > artist) share these same qualities and tendencies. Eccentricities and > obseessions often are characteristics of exceptional artists. For example, > John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, Picasso, Beethoven, Dostoyevsky, Milton, ... > I think to single Roger Waters out by calling "The Wall" "ridiculous" is > unfair. [LIPINSKI] The difference is that the others had something worth saying about their experiences, and didn't succumb to melodramatic whining (even Lennon's first solo album, a real catharsis, has more real power than self-pity). > He was clearly obsessed with (the seeming futility of) his life, > his mistakes, and his relationships. I really think it is an exceptional > thematic work. He as a person may not be appreciable but "The Wall" as an > expression of his feelings is. I disagree, but that's what makes horse races. His message wasn't effective to me, nothing of substance other than the whining came across. Though there IS some great music on the album. >>I recall reading his >>insistence at the time of the recording of "The Wall" that HE *was* Pink >>Floyd, that the band was his ideas, his vision, his music. The whole theme >>and content seemed symptomatic of the whiny "singer-songwriter" motif wherein >>the singer talks about his incredible problems in life and blames them >>all on the other people around him (often MOTOS's). [ROSEN] > Again, you may be confusing the image of the person seen through his art > with the art itself. Surely, there is an inseparable relation between > the person and the work but the likable or admirable qualities of one aren't > necessarily present in the other. But that's the content and message that this "art" transmitted to me. A vacuous one without substance. That particular "message" seems to permeate a lot of rock (especially metal) music. The "I am the center of the universe and if you don't adhere to my wishes then you're a slime fouling up my life" attitude. -- "to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best night and day to make you like everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight and never stop fighting." - e. e. cummings Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr
nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) (10/31/85)
> [/amqueue:] > Did Waters write that in his childhood? (does anyone know?) I dunno, but I doubt it. > or did the group simply put something in that is identifiably theirs? I presume that Waters put in his own well-known lyrics there so that you would identify "Pink" with Waters. > To me, the Wall seems to be a more complete and elaborate retelling of > the tale that the Album Wish You Were Here tells, and I beleive that > the general consensus is that WYWH is about Syd... It is? "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" is surely about Syd, but I don't think the rest of the album is. "Have A Cigar" is clearly *not* about Syd. > (btw, does anyone know what has happened to him? I heard he was > released...). Released? Was he ever locked up? The last I heard, he was living at home with his mother. Though, that info is a little old. As soon as I receive my Syd Barret fanzines, maybe I can tell you more. > While we are on the topic of The Wall, can someone enlighten me as to > the symbolic meaning of the walking hammers? Seems to me they represent the mindless masses who want "freedom from freedom". "Waiting for the final solution To strengthen the strain" Doug Alan nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA)
lip@masscomp.UUCP (John Lipinski) (10/31/85)
>> I agree that "The Wall" reflects at times the self-indulgent and egotistical >> tendencies of the writer. However, that's not enough for it to be called >> "ridiculous". In fact, I think many artists (assuming Roger Waters is an >> artist) share these same qualities and tendencies. Eccentricities and >> obseessions often are characteristics of exceptional artists. For example, >> John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, Picasso, Beethoven, Dostoyevsky, Milton, ... >> I think to single Roger Waters out by calling "The Wall" "ridiculous" is >> unfair. [LIPINSKI] > >The difference is that the others had something worth saying about their >experiences, and didn't succumb to melodramatic whining (even Lennon's >first solo album, a real catharsis, has more real power than self-pity). >[ROSEN] Well, I think you've slipped into a matter of personal opinion: the worth of expression about personal experiences. I know people who don't relate to Beethoven but that's the way it is. I guess I relate to Waters' expression and experiences more than you. Do you have any more concrete or objective comments? >His message wasn't >effective to me, nothing of substance other than the whining came across. >Though there IS some great music on the album. [ROSEN] Sure. I primarily listen to the music and consider the words/written message secondary. - John {ihnp4,decvax}!masscomp!lip
boyajian@akov68.DEC (JERRY BOYAJIAN) (11/01/85)
> From: topaz!quint (Anne Marie Quint) > I thought it was from Sid Barrett's life... much of Floyd's stuff seems > to be psychologically oriented, form the point of view of a slightly > sick psyche... I always thought it was because Barrett went nuts. What's > this about Waters? This is what I've heard as well. I specificly remember hearing that the scene (in the film) where Pink was sitting watching tv, and then goes berserk, smashing everything in sight, was an actually episode from Barrett's life. --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, Acton-Nagog, MA) UUCP: {decvax|ihnp4|allegra|ucbvax|...} !decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-akov68!boyajian ARPA: boyajian%akov68.DEC@DECWRL.DEC.COM
lip@masscomp.UUCP (John Lipinski) (11/01/85)
> While we are on the topic of The Wall, can someone enlighten me as to >the symbolic meaning of the walking hammers? Is this some symbol from Nazi >Germany? Or a hallucination by whomever the movie/music is about? Or just >some nifty looking stuff? [AMQUEUE] In light of Waters' tendencies and other symbols in the movie/album, I think the "marching" hammers are an excellent symbol. I think the "marching" hammers are symbolic of oppression and herd obedience. A hammer is used to pound, put down. The "army" of marching hammers in unison resembles a platoon of soldiers marching for tyranny. Throughout the work, Waters expresses his disgust for conformity, blind obedience, and herd mentality. And indeed, it is nifty looking stuff. Powerful. John ihnp4!masscomp!lip
showard@udenva.UUCP (showard) (11/02/85)
> > From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) > > I recall reading his insistence at the time of the recording of "The > > Wall" that HE *was* Pink Floyd, that the band was his ideas, his > > vision, his music. > > Well everyone knows that Roger Waters is a complete asshole, but that > doesn't mean he doesn't make good music. Besides, by the time of "The > Wall", Pink Floyd *was* Roger Waters. Richard Wright wasn't doing > anything anymore. Nick Mason never did a whole lot, and David Gilmour > only does good work when he's collaborating with geniuses (like Roger > Waters or Roy Harper, and then he can be amazingly good) -- his solo > stuff is pretty medicore. (Roy Harper has said that David Gilmour was > the musical heart of the band, but I don't believe it.) > > Doug Alan > nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA) I beg to differ with you, Doug. But I feel that listening to Gilmour's first solo album (especially "There's No Way Out of Here" and "Short and Sweet") in comparison with Waters' "The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking" will show which of them is the better musician. As far as the continuing "The Wall" debate goes, I'll throw in my vote on the "whiny" side. While there are fine musical moments, especially "Comfort- ably Numb," the album as a whole pales when compared with "Dark Side of the Moon" (an example of what Waters could _really_ do with the cooperation of the other members) and the early Syd Barrett-era albums. --Mr. Blore, the DJ who would not die --aka Steve Howard ...udenva!showard --"I feel very strange. It's like Pink Floyd or something"
kirsch@sjuvax.UUCP (P. Kirsch) (11/02/85)
In article <260@mit-eddie.UUCP> nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) writes: > >> To me, the Wall seems to be a more complete and elaborate retelling of >> the tale that the Album Wish You Were Here tells, and I beleive that >> the general consensus is that WYWH is about Syd... > >It is? "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" is surely about Syd, but I don't >think the rest of the album is. "Have A Cigar" is clearly *not* about >Syd. > >> (btw, does anyone know what has happened to him? I heard he was >> released...). > >Released? Was he ever locked up? The last I heard, he was living at >home with his mother. Though, that info is a little old. As soon as I >receive my Syd Barret fanzines, maybe I can tell you more. > I read in an interview with Gilmour and Waters that The whole Wish you were here album is about Barrett. In "Have a Cigar" the line "Oh by the way which one's Pink?" was really supposed to have been asked to the band in their early stages. Syd was supposed to have come into the studio while they were doing "Shine On" and it supposedly had an amazing effect on the band. He was supposed to have looked a complete mess. Yes, he was once locked up and if I remember coorectly, he was again locked up recently because supposedly he hads gotten even worse than he was before. -- Another wunnerful letter from the semi-intelligent rotting brain of: Paul Kirsch St. Joseph's University Philadelphia, Pa { astrovax | allegra | bpa | burdvax } !sjuvax!kirsch Warning: Objects in Terminal Room are Closer than they Appear...
nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) (11/03/85)
> From: boyajian@akov68.DEC (JERRY BOYAJIAN) >> I thought it was from Sid Barrett's life... > This is what I've heard as well. I specificly remember hearing that > the scene (in the film) where Pink was sitting watching tv, and then > goes berserk, smashing everything in sight, was an actually episode > from Barrett's life. Where did you hear this? As far as I've heard, when Syd wasn't feeling quite sane, he would just become incoherent or semi-catatonic. Now there's a look in your eyes, like black holes in the sky. On the other hand, when Waters wasn't feeling so good, he'd go around doing things like spitting on people's faces and driving through police baricades. Run to the bedroom. In the suitacse on the left, you'll find my favorite axe. Don't look so frightened, this is just a passing phase, one of my bad days. Besides, Alan Parker said that Waters insisted that the movie be about his own life, while Parker wanted to do something different. Parker also said that Waters is the biggest asshole he's ever met and totally insane and should be locked away. He's still a complete musical and poetic genius, though. "So you think you can tell heaven from hell" "Some say that heaven is hell Some say that hell is heaven" Doug Alan nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA)
nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) (11/03/85)
> From: showard@udenva.UUCP (showard) >> [Me:] ....and David Gilmour only does good work when he's >> collaborating with geniuses (like Roger Waters or Roy Harper, and >> then he can be amazingly good) -- his solo stuff is pretty medicore. >> (Roy Harper has said that David Gilmour was the musical heart of the >> band, but I don't believe it.) > I beg to differ with you, Doug. But I feel that listening to Gilmour's > first solo album (especially "There's No Way Out of Here" and "Short > and Sweet") in comparison with Waters' "The Pros and Cons of > Hitchhiking" will show which of them is the better musician. Like I said, David Gilmour can do great work when working with other people. By himself, he isn't so hot. Your choices for his best work just go to prove my point. Gilmour didn't write "There's No Way Out Of Here" and "Short and Sweet" was cowritten with Roy Harper. Also Gilmour's version of "Short and Sweet" pales completely next to Roy Harper's version on his album "The Unknown Soldier". Gilmour's version is okay. Harper's version is *great*. I can't even stand to listen to Gilmour's version anymore. The rest of Gilmour's first solo album is pretty nondescript, and I like Waters's "Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking" much better than either of Gilmour's solo albums, even if most of the music is just variations on one song. "Pros and Cons", I would agree, is not as good as any Pink Floyd album, though. The best solo album by a Pink Floyd member is "Wet Dream" by Richard Wright. But apparently he burned out and stopped doing anything useful after "Wish You Were Here". "Music from 'The Body'" by Roger Waters and Ron Geesin is probably better than "Wet Dream", but I guess it doesn't count as a solo album. > As far as the continuing "The Wall" debate goes, I'll throw in my vote on > the "whiny" side. Gee, well, I guess you wouldn't think much of "The Final Cut" then? "Hold on to the dream" [ing] Doug Alan nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (or ARPA)
kirsch@sjuvax.UUCP (P. Kirsch) (11/04/85)
In article <1196@decwrl.UUCP> boyajian@akov68.DEC (JERRY BOYAJIAN) writes: > >> From: topaz!quint (Anne Marie Quint) > >> I thought it was from Sid Barrett's life... much of Floyd's stuff seems >> to be psychologically oriented, form the point of view of a slightly >> sick psyche... I always thought it was because Barrett went nuts. What's >> this about Waters? > >This is what I've heard as well. I specificly remember hearing that the >scene (in the film) where Pink was sitting watching tv, and then goes >berserk, smashing everything in sight, was an actually episode from >Barrett's life. > >--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, Acton-Nagog, MA) > I believe it is about Waters--his father died when Roger was very young and he never got much of a chance to meet him--this is where the whole scene in the movie where he is trying on his Father's uniform comes from. Also, his mother was very domineering and he did have problems with his wife. Who knows? Maybe it's indirectly about Syd. -- Another wunnerful letter from the semi-intelligent rotting brain of: Paul Kirsch St. Joseph's University Philadelphia, Pa { astrovax | allegra | bpa | burdvax } !sjuvax!kirsch Warning: Objects in Terminal Room are Closer than they Appear...
lp102911@sjuvax.UUCP (palena) (11/04/85)
In article <1985@pyuxd.UUCP> rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) writes: >>>Not to flame you, Paul (I agree with your rebuttal to Palena wholeheartedly), >>>but although I've liked some of the music from "The Wall", I can't help but >>>think that as a whole it is a ridiculously self-indulgent egotistical >>>whining exercise on the part of Roger Waters. [ROSEN] > >> I agree that "The Wall" reflects at times the self-indulgent and egotistical >> tendencies of the writer. However, that's not enough for it to be called >> "ridiculous". In fact, I think many artists (assuming Roger Waters is an >> artist) share these same qualities and tendencies. Eccentricities and >> obseessions often are characteristics of exceptional artists. For example, >> John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, Picasso, Beethoven, Dostoyevsky, Milton, ... >> I think to single Roger Waters out by calling "The Wall" "ridiculous" is >> unfair. [LIPINSKI] > >The difference is that the others had something worth saying about their >experiences, and didn't succumb to melodramatic whining (even Lennon's >first solo album, a real catharsis, has more real power than self-pity). > >> He was clearly obsessed with (the seeming futility of) his life, >> his mistakes, and his relationships. I really think it is an exceptional >> thematic work. He as a person may not be appreciable but "The Wall" as an >> expression of his feelings is. > >I disagree, but that's what makes horse races. His message wasn't >effective to me, nothing of substance other than the whining came across. >Though there IS some great music on the album. > >>>I recall reading his >>>insistence at the time of the recording of "The Wall"... ...(and on and on and on....) *** WHAT HAVE I DONE???!!!**** Let me say at this time two things; 1) "The Wall" is a bad album,and when I say "bad" spell that S-T-U-P-I-D. 2) Anybody who could think that this net has nothing better to talk about but that album is obviously mentally deficient. ...in short,I'm ***SORRY*** I ever implied that "The Wall" is over-rated.It bogged me down in a huge argument with Paul Kirsch and introduced the topic to the net,for excrutiatingly long dis- cussion!!! For the sake of your fellow men please!,***ENOUGH ABOUT THAT ALBUM*** no matter how he tried he could not break free, and the worms ate into his brain . ***UGHHHHHH!!!!*** No signature necessary
barth@tellab1.UUCP (Barth Richards) (11/06/85)
Some thoughts on recent net comments about Pink Floyd's THE WALL: In article <4116@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> quint@topaz.UUCP (Amqueue) writes: >In article <2416@sjuvax.UUCP> kirsch@sjuvax.UUCP (P. Kirsch) writes: > >>even like Led Zep IV that much?? Why is The Wall "history's stupidest >>concept album?? Because it's the true story of Roger Water's life?? Maybe > >I thought it was from Sid Barrett's life... much of Floyd's stuff seems >to be psychologically oriented, form the point of view of a slightly >sick psyche... I always thought it was because Barrett went nuts. What's >this about Waters? There are shades of Syd Barrett in the character of Pink, ("I've got the obligitary Hendrix perm...I've got elastic bands keeping my shoes on") but Pink is primarily based on Roger Water's own life. Roger, like Pink, never knew his father (who was a WWII casualty in both cases), had overbearing teachers that he hated, had a wife who cheated on him, and freaked out during one show on the ANIMALS tour (actually, probably more than one. I have a bootleg from that tour at the end of which Roger rather sarcastically says "Well, it's been really great watching you all beat the shit out of each other. Another time, he saw this kid in the front row who was going crazy: cheering, screaming, yelling, jumping up and down through the whole show, not even listening to the music. Finally, Roger motioned to the kid to approach the stage. The kid, of course, was enthralled. His god was calling, so he stepped forward. Whereupon Roger let forth with a great FTUPMTH and spat square in the kid's face.) In article <198@mit-eddie.UUCP> nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) writes: >In any case, perhaps "The Wall" is "rediculously self-indulgent >egotistical whining"? But so? A lot of his problems are universal, and >he doesn't endlessly repeat one certain complaint or anything. He >criticises just about everything, and I agree with him on most of them >too. He puts it all wonderfully poetically, and the music is incredibly >atmospheric. "The Wall" is a masterpiece of musical imagery. True. Tragedy is usually one character's story, but the idea is to see how this one person's experience relates to everyone. I think if one stops trying so hard to hate THE WALL, the message might come to mean more than "whining." In article <198@mit-eddie.UUCP> nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) writes: >> From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) >> Didn't he go through a divorce around this time? > >I dunno. One might think so from the movie.... Yes, he did. In article <1985@pyuxd.UUCP> rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) writes: >The difference is that the others had something worth saying about their >experiences, and didn't succumb to melodramatic whining (even Lennon's >first solo album, a real catharsis, has more real power than self-pity). > >His message wasn't >effective to me, nothing of substance other than the whining came across. And what is your criteria for "worth saying"? I find that the term "melodrama" comes easily to the lips of those who want to criticize a story of a tragic nature, but aren't sure what they can use to support their criticism. >Though there IS some great music on the album. This is true. Barth Richards Tellabs, Inc. Lisle, IL "A friend of mine sent me a picture postcard with a satelite photo of the entire planet on it, and on the back he wrote, "Wish you were here." -Steven Wright
slg@ukma.UUCP (Sean Gilley) (03/18/86)
In reference to the article that said that the `wall' was refering to
the imaginary fourth wall between the performers and the audience --
Sure, that may be what he meant as a writer, but that doesn't mean
that that's all there is to the movie. It's been a while since I've seen
the movie, but it is ridiculas to say that that meaning is all there is
to it.
I don't remember who directed the movie, but certainly the `Another Brick
In the Wall' scene with the children first becoming all nearly the same,
then falling into a meat grinder can have several different interpretations,
the easiest being just a new versions of the `Little Boxes' theme.
Since it has been so long since I saw the movie, I don't feel competant to
really comment on it, but the `fourth wall' idea did not come over at all
in the film. Perhaps seen on stage it might be different, but I don't
even know if it was done on stage... I didn't see it.
Sean.
--
Sean L. Gilley Phone: (606) 272-9620 or (606) 257-8781
{ihnp4,decvax,ucbvax}!cbosgd!ukma{!ukgs}!slg, slg@UKMA.BITNET
I do not have a city, a state, or a country that I will die for, but rather
a world that I will fight for, that it might live.barth@tellab1.UUCP (Barth Richards) (03/18/86)
In article <1271@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU> zzz@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU (Mike Konopik) writes: >By the way, Wall fans, I've listened to a tape of a BBC broadcast with an >interview of Roger Waters with respect to The Wall. His explanation of >what it means is WAY off mark from what most people I've discussed it with >imagine. Sorry that I can't remember many of the details, but I do remember >that he said the "wall" was referring to the perceived wall between a band >performing onstage and the audience in the concert hall. Nothing about >anything offstage. Really flipped me out when I heard the "real" meaning. I've heard a lengthy interview with Roger too. (A roommate had it on tape, and I'm still kicking myself for not getting a copy from him.) Roger said it was a lot more than that, though he was certianly not bursting with enthusiasm when it came to explaining himself. >Somehow his explanation doesn't seem to completely cover all the subtle >parts of the album/movie. Certianly not. It seemed somewhat painful for him to talk about. >Either that, or he was intentionally trying to >make the audience think there was some obscure meaning beyond the mundanity >of the real meaning. What's the real meaning? Hard to say for sure, but looking at the album and movie, and considering some of the evidence (i.e. similarities between Roger's life and "Pink's"), one can formulate theories. >You figure it out! Easier said than done! Barth Richards Tellabs, Inc. Lisle, IL
abd1@ur-tut.UUCP ( Al) (03/21/86)
> When Pink Floyd were on their extensive "The Wall" tour (two concerts), > bunches of roadies would actually build an actual wall in front of the band. > By the time the concert ended, they were completely hidden by the wall, > even though Roger Waters kept climbing up behind it before he was completely > overcome. In their final number (the courtroom Gilbert and Sullivan take-off), > they destroy the wall. Wrong, the wall was completed half-way through the show and the band was 'hidden' then, at the end of the 'Good bye Cruel World' song. After that was a break, then they played a song behind it; then they played in front, on top, and behind the wall with new openings that the roadies made. I wish I saw it more than once. Too much to take in in one sitting...... Al Dunn UUCP: ...seismo!rochester!ur-tut!abd1 USMAIL: University of Rochester BITNET: abd1@UORDBV Taylor Hall Phone: (716) 275-2811 work, 367-3577 home Rochester, NY 14627
lp102918@sjuvax.UUCP (03/21/86)
In article <336@drivax.UUCP> holloway@drivax.UUCP (Bruce Holloway) writes: > >When Pink Floyd were on their extensive "The Wall" tour (two concerts), >bunches of roadies would actually build an actual wall in front of the band. >By the time the concert ended, they were completely hidden by the wall, >even though Roger Waters kept climbing up behind it before he was completely >overcome. In their final number (the courtroom Gilbert and Sullivan take-off), >they destroy the wall. > ...this has got to be the most moronic thing I've ever heard in my life.You mean to tell me that people actually shelled out good money to see this garbage?!... ...do us all a favor,fellas,*retire*!!!... Larry Palena
sag2@ur-tut.UUCP (03/24/86)
In article <2936@sjuvax.UUCP> lp102918@sjuvax.UUCP (palena) writes: >In article <336@drivax.UUCP> holloway@drivax.UUCP (Bruce Holloway) writes: >> >>When Pink Floyd were on their extensive "The Wall" tour (two concerts), >>bunches of roadies would actually build an actual wall in front of the band. >>By the time the concert ended, they were completely hidden by the wall, >>even though Roger Waters kept climbing up behind it before he was completely >>overcome. In their final number (the courtroom Gilbert and Sullivan take-off), >>they destroy the wall. >> > > ...this has got to be the most moronic thing I've ever heard > in my life.You mean to tell me that people actually shelled > out good money to see this garbage?!... > > ...do us all a favor,fellas,*retire*!!!... > > Larry Palena WARNING...Farenheit 451 You know, it really amazes me that someone could have so little taste in music. Pink Floyd has one of the most unique and enjoyable sounds of any band that I have heard, and believe me, I have heard a lot. I'll tell you something else. Just because you don't appreciate REAL music doesn't mean that there aren't others around who don't. If you want to criticize a band, do so to one that deserves criticism. In the mean time, get a real life. ;-) Arthur Dent P.S. Some really bad groups to rag on include the following: Twisted Sister Essentially aural rectal inversion. Whitesnake Give me real heavy metal. Wham! Gutless whimps. KISS Why did they ever come back? Starship Sellouts to top 40. Mr. Mister (or whatever) Boozhwah. Kool and the Gang Make me want to throw up. Culture Club B P C and G's. Phil Collins Overrated top 40 demi-god. etc. etc. etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Attention ... attention, failure to comply may result in prosecution for criminal drug evasion.
jla@usl.UUCP (Joe Arceneaux) (03/24/86)
In article <1271@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU> zzz@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU (Mike Konopik) writes: > > By the way, Wall fans, I've listened to a tape of a BBC broadcast with an > interview of Roger Waters with respect to The Wall. His explanation of > what it means is WAY off mark from what most people I've discussed it with > imagine. Sorry that I can't remember many of the details, but I do remember > ... > Somehow his explanation doesn't seem to completely cover all the subtle > parts of the album/movie. Either that, or he was intentionally trying to > make the audience think there was some obscure meaning beyond the mundanity > of the real meaning. > You figure it out! > -- > > -Mike > > genrad!mit-eddie!zzz (UUCP) ZZZ%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC (ARPA) Seems to me there have been so many instances of artists claiming that their work means something completely different than what it seems to obviously communicate, that I tend to disbelieve the artist in such situations. I listened to the albumn A LOT when it first came out, and when I finally saw the film, it seemed to agree completely with the record in as far as its "message". So I find it hard to believe that it was intended to represent something else altogether. Of course, I also remember hearing that Roger Waters and Alan Parker disagreed quite a bit on the film... -- Joseph Arceneaux Lafayette, LA {akgua, ut-sally}!usl!jla
williams@vu-vlsi.UUCP (Thomas Williams) (03/26/86)
In article <2936@sjuvax.UUCP>, lp102918@sjuvax.UUCP writes: > In article <336@drivax.UUCP> holloway@drivax.UUCP (Bruce Holloway) writes: > > > >When Pink Floyd were on their extensive "The Wall" tour (two concerts), > > [ a brief description of the Wall concerts ] > > > > ...this has got to be the most moronic thing I've ever heard > in my life.You mean to tell me that people actually shelled > out good money to see this garbage?!... > > ...do us all a favor,fellas,*retire*!!!... > > Larry Palena garbage?! moronic? <sigh> I suppose it would be quite useless trying to debate Pink Floyd's tremendous music and stage presence with you. All I ask is that you keep your infintile opinions to yourself. I doubt anyone enjoys reading your pathetic drivel when you have *nothing* at all to add to the conversation. Perhaps you get some saditic pleasure out of annoying people? Grow up. On to something nicer... I have heard that there is an LP bootleg of the most recent Roger Waters concert. I saw his show in Philadelphia and loved the first half (all floyd). Anyway the album reportedly covers the first half of the concert on two disks -- with a somewhat jazzed-up "Set the controls". Can anyone else give me any information on this? -taw