waldman@husc4.HARVARD.EDU (benjamin waldman) (08/28/87)
I'm planning to buy an SE soon, and I understand that there are two different keyboards which I can purchase with it. Although my school tells me that I only need the more expensive one if I want to be able to run MS-DOS programs (which is not something I'm planning), a friend tells me that he read a review which said that the cheaper keyboard was terrible. Can any of you out there offer some advice on this issue? I hope that this doesn't start a war (my keyboard is better than yours, etc.). Thanks in advance, Ben Waldman waldman@husc4.harvard.edu ...seismo!harvard!husc4!waldman
mrh@Shasta.STANFORD.EDU (Marc Hannah) (08/29/87)
In article <2777@husc6.UUCP>, waldman@husc4.HARVARD.EDU (benjamin waldman) writes: > I'm planning to buy an SE soon, and I understand that there are two > different keyboards which I can purchase with it. Although my school .. > Can any of you out there offer some advice on this issue? I hope that .. > Ben Waldman I didn't have any choice, my Mac II came with the extended keyboard and that works well for me. The only reasons which currently exist for having the expanded keyboard are (in my opinion) as follows: 1. Terminal emulation. I regularly use VersaTerm as a VT100 hooked up to our mainframe. With the current version (3.1 I believe) you can use the extra keys with the extended keyboard to advantage. You can program the keys to send up to 8 characters and in addition you can have F0-9 execute VersaTerm macros tagged with option-0 thru option-9. This extra programmability is extremely effective in many cases. If you don't use your Mac regularly as a terminal emulator then skip this reason. 2. Macro keys. Tempo 1.2 allows you to use the extra keys on the extended keyboard for Macro assignment which expands the number of available macros. I imagine people would find the function keys a likely candidate for macro execution. 3. Alternate operating systems. Both UNIX and MS-DOS probably work better with the extra keys (although this may not be as important as Apple implies). I haven't *yet* heard of any other uses which are currently available. David Gelphman daveg%slacvm.bitnet@forsythe.stanford.edu
briand@tekig4.TEK.COM (Brian Diehm) (08/29/87)
>tells me that he read a review which said that the cheaper keyboard was >terrible. Bullfeathers. I use the cheaper keyboard and it is a marked improvement over the older Mac and MacPlus ones. As I understand it, the larger keyboard is only different in that it adds some general purpose function keys, keys that most software doesn't address. Other than that, they are the same. -- -Brian Diehm (SDA - Standard Disclaimers Apply) Tektronix, Inc. briand@tekig4.TEK.COM or {decvax,cae780,uw-beaver}!tektronix!tekig4!briand
flowers@ucla-cs.UUCP (09/01/87)
The only problem I have with the extended keyboard is that the key which is to the left of A is caps lock, rather than control, which is west south west from Z. If you're used to IBM pc keyboards you'll like that, but if you touch type, expecting control to be to the left of A, you'll be very frustrated. Having some of the other keys is useful, but this control key placement is such a problem that, if I can't figure out how to change the placement (including destructive changes to the keyboard), I'll be stepping down to the other keyboard. The exact same keyboard can be found pictured in numerous ads in PC Magazine. (look for ads for Keytronics)
stuart@ihlpf.UUCP (09/01/87)
In article <7982@shemp.UCLA.EDU>, flowers@CS.UCLA.EDU writes: > The only problem I have with the extended keyboard is that the key > which is to the left of A is caps lock, rather than control, which is > west south west from Z. If you're used to IBM pc keyboards you'll It wouldn't have been so bad, except that it is a PHYSICALLY LOCKING key. That means that you can't just re-map it through software. Nope - you have to physically damage it as well. If it were my only keyboard, I think I'd get used to using BOTH control keys (just under the shift keys, folks) but I have "standard" keyboards here at work that continue to confuse my poor fingers. sigh. Apple, do you have a fix for this? (please?) Stu
jnp@calmasd.GE.COM (John Pantone) (09/01/87)
In article <7982@shemp.UCLA.EDU>, flowers@CS.UCLA.EDU writes: > The only problem I have with the extended keyboard is that the key > which is to the left of A is caps lock, rather than control, which is > west south west from Z. If you're used to IBM pc keyboards you'll > like that, but if you touch type, expecting control to be to the left > of A, you'll be very frustrated. Unless you use any of the many DEC keyboards which, also, have the caps lock key to the immediate left of the A key (vt100/2xx/...) That is actually a reasonably common placement. -- These opinions are solely mine and in no way reflect those of my employer. John M. Pantone @ GE/Calma R&D, Data Management Group, San Diego ...{ucbvax|decvax}!sdcsvax!calmasd!jnp jnp@calmasd.GE.COM
jww@sdcsvax.UUCP (09/02/87)
The big keyboard is like putting a Ouija board on your lap,
but is better for VT100 and MS-DOS type stuff. The little
one is a little more pregnant than the Mac Plus keyboard
but is acceptable in size. The feel on both is the same.
--
Joel West (c/o UCSD)
Palomar Software, Inc., P.O. Box 2635, Vista, CA 92083
{ucbvax,ihnp4}!sdcsvax!jww jww@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu
or ihnp4!crash!palomar!joel joel@palomar.cts.comdhac@ur-tut.UUCP (Darren Jay Hacker) (09/04/87)
In article <2777@husc6.UUCP> waldman@husc4.UUCP (benjamin waldman) writes: >I'm planning to buy an SE soon, and I understand that there are two >different keyboards which I can purchase with it. Although my school >tells me that I only need the more expensive one if I want to be able >to run MS-DOS programs (which is not something I'm planning), a friend >tells me that he read a review which said that the cheaper keyboard was >terrible. > >Can any of you out there offer some advice on this issue? I hope that >this doesn't start a war (my keyboard is better than yours, etc.). Well, I pondered over the same problem as you, and I had decided to purchase the extended keyboard. I do not regret this decision. First of all the "unnecessary" keys (Esc, Control, etc) are out of the way, i.e. you won't be confused when you are using your standard Mac applications (pre-ADB). Secondly, if you use a word processor, such as Word 3, you will appreciate the inverted-T cursor keys, allowing you to use the numeric keypad for what is what intended -- entering numbers. Third, if you touch type, then hitting a combination of keys such as Command-C is unnatural (as on the other keyboards), and since the Option key could be thought of as a second "shift key", then there would be much sense in having two (as there are two shift keys on any typewriter). The Extended keyboard has two of each of these and two Control Keys. Fourth, in the near future, we may be able to easily map the "Function Keys" to execute keyboard shortcuts, or macros (we can put a template on the keyboard). (If there already is an application for this, somebody PLEASE let me know!!!) The six keys above the cursor keys may also come in handy at some point, and I find the Caps-Lock light to be very convenient (although I'd like to see the new System suppot the other lights, too). My big gripe over the Apple Standard Keyboard is unaesthetic placement of the cursor keys in place of the right bank of modifiers (Ctrl,Cmd,Option), moving the "accent gravure/tilde" and "backslash/rule" keys to the sides of the ever-shrinking spacebar, and the placement of that ridiculous "on" key which is only used on the Mac II (it is conveniently placed in the corner of the extended keyboard). So, I hope this convinces you to go ahead with the Extended Keyboard. While it may seem to have many extraneous features, it still has the necessities that the Apple Keyboard lacks. Besides, it may make the transition from PC to Mac easier for our "blue" friends. I hope you all take my opinions into consideraation when deciding, and I hope you make a decision that you will not regret. I guess this opens this topic for discussion. Please send any doubts, disagreements and general gripes to me. DJ Hacker The fault, dear Brutus is not in our stars, But in our software -- Wm. Macspeare
campoly@violet.berkeley.edu (Mr. Science) (09/05/87)
I have seen a beta test version of a program called "QuickKeys" by Donald Brown from CE Software. It is a terrific program which makes the extended keyboard invaluable. Any key (incluiding all combinations of Command, Option, Control, Shift) can be mapped to perform a useful function, such as starting an application, selecting from a menu, echoing a text string, or simulating a mouse operation. The author noted that he planned to preview the product at the Boston Expo (I don't know if it was) and planned to start distribution in September. But to the point, the extended keybaord will be invaluable when this product is available. The extra function keys across the top can be set as can the six keys to the left of the alphabetic keypad. In fact, you can define these keys to actually do what the labels say! Also, the program allows you to define universal as well as application dependent key mappings. Thus, in the finder you can set the F9 key to fire up a frequently used application and also use the F9 key to switch to 9 point font size in your favorite word processor. -- Greg
dhac@ur-tut.UUCP (Darren Jay Hacker) (09/05/87)
In article <4999@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> campoly@violet.berkeley.edu (Mr. Science) writes: >I have seen a beta test version of a program called "QuickKeys" by >Donald Brown from CE Software. It is a terrific program which makes >the extended keyboard invaluable. Any key (incluiding all combinations >of Command, Option, Control, Shift) can be mapped to perform a >useful function, such as starting an application, selecting from a >menu, echoing a text string, or simulating a mouse operation. Yeah, can someone e-mail this to me when it becomes available? I'm still trying to convince friends to get the Extended Keyboards with their SE's. This would do the trick, and would make my life easier (not to mention my investment worthwhile). DJ Hacker
rs4u+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU (Richard Siegel) (09/09/87)
I prefer the largert one myself, not least because I can go surfing on it after work. :-) --Rich