humphrey@castor.usc.edu (Steve Humphrey) (08/28/87)
What's the scoop?
I was talking to an Apple representative to our school today, and he
said that it is *NOT* definite that we will be able to download or
freely distribute Hypercard. He said the Apple marketing, etc, are
still debating whether or not we *MUST* purchase it.
The only reason I have not rushed out to purchase it locally is that I
figured I would download it locally and buy the Hypercard Scripting
Manual. If I'm gonna have to buy it, I want to do it now.
Again, what's the Hyper-scoop? :-)
Steve Humphrey USPS: P.O. Box 1285
humphrey@castor.usc.edu Dixon, CA 95620
"There is beauty all around, when there's love at home."jcc@ut-ngp.UUCP (j. chris cooley) (08/28/87)
In article<4228@oberon.USC.EDU>,humphrey@castor.usc.edu(Steve Humphrey) writes: > What's the scoop? > > The only reason I have not rushed out to purchase it locally is that I > figured I would download it locally and buy the Hypercard Scripting > Manual. If I'm gonna have to buy it, I want to do it now. > First a side note. Remember that "HyperCard" is 9 disks of approximately 5.5 Megabytes. Downloading it over the standard phone lines would be quite a task. Next, an opinion. If Apple does indeed allow HyperCard to be "freely distributable," (shareware? <snicker/heehee>), it would be best if they sold the manual and documentation alone, say, for $30 at Waldenbooks or B. Dalton (book stores) or something. --chris jcc@ut-ngp.UUCP jcc@ngp.utexas.edu jcc@uta3081.BITNET
barmar@think.UUCP (08/28/87)
In article <6071@ut-ngp.UUCP> jcc@ut-ngp.UUCP (j. chris cooley) writes: >Remember that "HyperCard" is 9 disks of approximately 5.5 Megabytes. I always heard it was 4 disks, which is a maximum of 3.2 Mb. Some of this is presumably sample stacks, which you could probably live without. However, it is still quite a bit to download, on the order of 7 hours at 1200 baud. On GEnie this costs $35, which is almost how much it costs to buy at a store (and the store includes documentation). --- Barry Margolin Thinking Machines Corp. barmar@think.com seismo!think!barmar
mrh@Shasta.STANFORD.EDU (Marc Hannah) (08/29/87)
In article <6071@ut-ngp.UUCP>, jcc@ut-ngp.UUCP (j. chris cooley) writes: > First a side note. > Remember that "HyperCard" is 9 disks of approximately 5.5 Megabytes. > Downloading it over the standard phone lines would be quite a task. The copy of HyperCard I got contained 4 disks, NOT 9 disks. Personally I think 4*800K is too much to download anyway (although the system disk could be left out). I can't believe that people are bitching about paying such low price for a (potentially) great product. > --chris Note: The author of the posting I am replying to was not bitching, he merely had the facts incorrect. David Gelphman daveg%slacvm.bitnet@forsythe.stanford.edu
humphrey@castor.usc.edu (Steve Humphrey) (08/29/87)
In reference to the original question:
I used the term "downloadable" in a pretty broad sense. What I meant,
of course, was "will I be able to copy hypercard from someone else?"
(legally, of course) NOT "will I be able to download from some service
to whom I pay $10 / hour?"
Secondly, I hope this question is not taken as a flame/b*tch. It's
just that on a full time student's salary ($0), I don't want to spend
$50 if I don't have to. After all, several people have said that the
Hypercard user's manual is not really needed anyway, so I just figured
I would get a copy and purchase the scripting manual.
Again, the question: will I be able to legally (this is very important
to me) copy Hypercard (ala system upgrades)?
Thanks,
Steve Humphrey USPS: P.O. Box 1285
humphrey@castor.usc.edu Dixon, CA 95620
"There is beauty all around, when there's love at home."halls@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Andy Halls) (08/29/87)
In article <7922@think.UUCP> barmar@godot.think.com.UUCP (Barry Margolin) writes: >In article <6071@ut-ngp.UUCP> jcc@ut-ngp.UUCP (j. chris cooley) writes: >>Remember that "HyperCard" is 9 disks of approximately 5.5 Megabytes. > >I always heard it was 4 disks, which is a maximum of 3.2 Mb. Some of >this is presumably sample stacks, which you could probably live Yes, there are 4 disks in the distribution. However, one disk contains a System file and other files found on the other three disks. So you would only have to download only three disks worth of stuff. The help stack is over 400k. You really need atleast two 800k drives if you want to read the help. The local Mac user's group was told that we could buy a license ($75) and then freely distribute HyperCard to our members. Andy Halls mail: 2646 Stuart Street, Denver, CO 80212 phone: home (303) 455-9139 work (303) 443-3347 uucp: {cires | hao | nbires}boulder!halls domain: halls@boulder.colorado.edu
moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) (08/29/87)
From everything I hear, HyperCard is not downloadable, nor free to pass out
by User's group. I've seen the Warranty/agreement card that comes with the
package, and it's pretty standard, i.e. no passing out to others, etc.
Of course, PD HyperCard stacks are A-OK to upload/download; and I've
understood that the MultiFinder/New System will also be allowed to download
from CompuServe and from User Groups. The ~$50 Multi-Finder kit comes with
documentation and four disks, if you want it. Frankly, I'd rather pay for
the documentation and 4 DS disks...
Delta: We never make the same mistake three times.
Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, allegra, hplsla, lbl-csam}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
<*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>graifer@net1.UUCP (08/31/87)
In article <6071@ut-ngp.UUCP> jcc@ut-ngp.UUCP (j. chris cooley) writes: >... >Remember that "HyperCard" is 9 disks of approximately 5.5 Megabytes. >... > > --chris > jcc@ut-ngp.UUCP > jcc@ngp.utexas.edu > jcc@uta3081.BITNET I just bought HyperCard at my local Apple Dealer. The box came with four disks, and one of these contained a system folder plus duplicates of files on the other three. The total loss of space on my hard disk from installing HyperCard was less than 2.5 meg. This situation was as described in the introductory manual also in the box. Dan Graifer graifer@net1.UCSD.EDU Disclaimer: Nobody ever listens to me anyways; Why should they start now?
anson@elrond.UUCP (08/31/87)
In article <6071@ut-ngp.UUCP> jcc@ut-ngp.UUCP (j. chris cooley) writes: >Remember that "HyperCard" is 9 disks of approximately 5.5 Megabytes. Correction: HyperCard is distributed on four 800K disks, of which three contain HyperCard and the fourth is a (redundant) startup disk. The actual HyperCard software (including sample stacks) is more like 2 Meg. -- ===================================================================== Ed Anson, Calcomp Display Products Division, Hudson NH 03051 (603) 885-8712, anson@elrond.CalComp.COM
kdmoen@watcgl.UUCP (08/31/87)
humphrey@castor.usc.edu(Steve Humphrey) writes: >> The only reason I have not rushed out to purchase it locally is that I >> figured I would download it locally and buy the Hypercard Scripting >> Manual. If I'm gonna have to buy it, I want to do it now. jcc@ut-ngp.UUCP (j. chris cooley) writes: >Remember that "HyperCard" is 9 disks of approximately 5.5 Megabytes. >Downloading it over the standard phone lines would be quite a task. Actually, HyperCard is on 4 disks. The first disk is a boot disk that contains no files not on the other 3 disks. The total amount of information that you would have to download is closer to 2 Meg. Thats still 5 or 6 hours at 1200 baud. >If Apple does indeed allow HyperCard to be "freely distributable," >(shareware? <snicker/heehee>), it would be best if they sold the >manual and documentation alone, say, for $30 at Waldenbooks or >B. Dalton (book stores) or something. Actually, there is no real need. The online documentation is more complete than the printed documentation, which doesn't document HyperTalk. Also, the online documentation is *better*, because it is interactive (you can try things out as you read about them), and fully cross-linked (you can point at an asterisk, or an entry in the index, and jump to the referenced section). You can also make printouts of the online documentation. I understand that old fashioned printed books documenting hypercard will soon be available from third parties, so it really doesn't matter if Apple publishes the user manual or not. -- Doug Moen University of Waterloo Computer Graphics Lab UUCP: {ihnp4,watmath}!watcgl!kdmoen INTERNET: kdmoen@cgl.waterloo.edu
wbell@utgpu.UUCP (08/31/87)
In article <3765@sdcsvax.UCSD.EDU> graifer@net1.UUCP (Dan Graifer) writes: >In article <6071@ut-ngp.UUCP> jcc@ut-ngp.UUCP (j. chris cooley) writes: >I just bought HyperCard at my local Apple Dealer. The box came with four >disks, and one of these contained a system folder plus duplicates of files >on the other three. The total loss of space on my hard disk from installing >HyperCard was less than 2.5 meg. > >This situation was as described in the introductory manual also in the box. > > Dan Graifer > graifer@net1.UCSD.EDU >Disclaimer: Nobody ever listens to me anyways; Why should they start now? (This isn't exactly related to the above discussion...) How many dealers (outside of the West Coast) have HyperCard right now? I have been calling the usual mail order places, and they don't have it, nor do they know if or when they will get it. One place said they heard that it won't be available until late September or early October! (but they also said that they saw an ad in the New York Times from a dealer who supposedly has it now...) My dealer (in Toronto) said it would be out in "2 weeks" (he said that 2 weeks ago, and he said it again this weekend...). -- ---- "'In the end'? *Nothing* ends, Adrian. Nothing *ever* ends." (Dr. Manhattan, Watchmen #12) University of Toronto Computing Services Warren Bell UUCP: {cbosgd,ihnp4,utai,utcsri,utzoo}!utgpu!wbell Internet: wbell@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu BITNET: wbell at utoronto, wbell at utorgpu Disclaimer: the views expressed above are mine, and do not in any way reflect the views of my employers.
anson@elrond.CalComp.COM (Ed Anson) (09/01/87)
>(This isn't exactly related to the above discussion...) >How many dealers (outside of the West Coast) have HyperCard right now? >I have been calling the usual mail order places, and they don't have >it, nor do they know if or when they will get it. One place said they >heard that it won't be available until late September or early October! I bought a copy of HyperCard last week, in Nashua New Hampshire. It was the last one there, and the other dealers are out, too. It appears that the software is available, but only in *very* limited quantities. Dealers sell out faster than they get it in. Apparently, *only* Apple dealers will have the package. Even APDA says they won't be handling it. -- ===================================================================== Ed Anson, Calcomp Display Products Division, Hudson NH 03051 (603) 885-8712, anson@elrond.CalComp.COM
woody@tybalt.caltech.edu (William Edward Woody) (09/02/87)
In article <6071@ut-ngp.UUCP> jcc@ut-ngp.UUCP (j. chris cooley) writes: >First a side note. >Remember that "HyperCard" is 9 disks of approximately 5.5 Megabytes. >Downloading it over the standard phone lines would be quite a task. mumble Er, ah, last I heard, HyperCard was 4 800K disks, not 9. Has it grown? (I hope it ain't 5.5 megs larg, as I only have a 20 meg hard disk on my Mac II!) - William Edward Woody Mac >> IBM && /|\ && ][n _____UNTIL 1 SEPTEMBER 1987_____ ______AFTER 1 SEPTEMBER 1987_____ woody@tybalt.caltech.edu Net Address Unknown woody@juliet.caltech.edu (I hope I get net access!) 1-54 Lloyd House 8038 N. Mariposa Pasadena, CA 93710 Fresno, CA 93710 ____________________________________________________________________________
roberts@cognos.uucp (Robert Stanley) (09/03/87)
In article <1680@watcgl.waterloo.edu> kdmoen@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Doug Moen) writes: > The online documentation is more complete than the printed documentation, > which doesn't document HyperTalk. This is a true statement, but the on-line documentation for HyperTalk is fairly limited. If you examine the scripts in the various stacks that are on the distribution disks you will find a number of working (presumably?) examples of HyperTalk features that are not described anywhere in the on- line docs. What is more, injudicious cloning elsewhere can produce some amazing results. I think it is fair to say that the on-line docs obviate the need for a manual up to the advanced scripting level. Also, there is no description of how (and where) to add resources, although sufficient information appears in the promotional material to enable you to figure out how to do this. If you want to program the beast seriously, you need the book from APDA, or be prepared to invest significant experimental time (lots of fun, though :-)). > You can also make printouts of the online documentation. Yes you can, but does anyone know for sure what font the help system cards use? Geneva 12 sort of works on-screen, but a few cards mess up in it. The translation to Helvetica on a LaserWriter completely destroys the formatting between left hand headings and right hand paras. It seems that either the text fields weren't explicitly given a font (and my system defaults everything to Grungible 11), or that the cards specify a font which I don't have in my system (which is a real possibility). > I understand that old fashioned printed books documenting hypercard > will soon be available from third parties, so it really doesn't matter > if Apple publishes the user manual or not. I am looking forward to the technical reference from APDA, but by the time it appears/arrives I may be using it only to verify my experimental results; just can't stop playing with the thing, and it doesn't even run on my Lisa at home. MacWorks 4.0, will you ever really exist? Or do I have to try do it all myself, again ;-) ? -- Robert Stanley Cognos Incorporated S-mail: P.O. Box 9707 Voice: (613) 738-1440 (Research: there are 2!) 3755 Riverside Drive FAX: (613) 738-0002 Compuserve: 76174,3024 Ottawa, Ontario uucp: decvax!utzoo!dciem!nrcaer!cognos!roberts CANADA K1G 3Z4
dwb@apple.UUCP (David W. Berry) (09/09/87)
In article <1987Aug31.113607.2189@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu> wbell@gpu.utcs.UUCP (Warren Bell) writes: >How many dealers (outside of the West Coast) have HyperCard right now? >I have been calling the usual mail order places, and they don't have >it, nor do they know if or when they will get it. One place said they >heard that it won't be available until late September or early October! >(but they also said that they saw an ad in the New York Times from a dealer >who supposedly has it now...) Most of the "usual mail order places" aren't apple dealers and therefore won't normally carry apple products. In order to buy HyperCard and/or MultiFinder you will have to talk to an Apple Certified Dealer. -- David W. Berry dwb@well.uucp dwb@Delphi dwb@apple.com 293-0752@408.MaBell