gbs@utgpu.UUCP (08/28/87)
>take a look at IM, for instance. This is in spite of the name change; >if they are so polite about such a detail, I wonder why they didn't sue >the **** out of Microsoft for copying their interface in a blatant way >(but then again, it must be fun to be able to say in an ad: "IBM finally >started using a pointing device - aka mouse - 6 years after we put balls >into them.) > Sorry about the above, but since there is no comp.mac.gossip ... > Eric Behr Apple did NOT invent the mouse, the window or anything else intrinsic to the MacIntosh (or Amiga or MS-Windows) environment, they couldn't successfully sue anyone for anything. Lawyers looking for a client are refered to Xerox and the origional Smalltalk prototype systems that goes back , what is it ? almost 10 years now? -- Gideon Sheps I am not a number ... ...I am a free variable ! /// UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,decvax,pyramid}!utzoo!utgpu!gbs \\\/// BITNET: gbs@utorgpu gbs@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu \\\/
kdmoen@watcgl.UUCP (08/31/87)
gbs@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Gideon Sheps) writes: >Apple did NOT invent the mouse, the window or anything else intrinsic >to the MacIntosh (or Amiga or MS-Windows) environment, they couldn't >successfully sue anyone for anything. Lawyers looking for a client >are refered to Xerox and the origional Smalltalk prototype systems that >goes back , what is it ? almost 10 years now? Well, Smalltalk goes back to 1972, which is 15 years ago. The mouse was invented at Stanford in the late 60's by Doug Englebart. I once saw a claim that windows were invented long before Smalltalk as well, but I can't find the reference or substantiate it. PS: Back in 1982 I tried, and failed, to get a mouse for my personal computer. (Most people in the microcomputer industry had never heard of them, and I couldn't find any mouse manufacturers). Interesting how much things have progressed in 5 years. PPS: Has anybody used NLS, by Englebart? How does it compare to the sort of things that are being done with Macintoshes nowadays? -- Doug Moen University of Waterloo Computer Graphics Lab UUCP: {ihnp4,watmath}!watcgl!kdmoen INTERNET: kdmoen@cgl.waterloo.edu
mkhaw@teknowledge-vaxc.UUCP (09/01/87)
in article <1681@watcgl.waterloo.edu>, kdmoen@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Doug Moen) says:
-> PS: Back in 1982 I tried, and failed, to get a mouse for my
-> personal computer. (Most people in the microcomputer industry had
-> never heard of them, and I couldn't find any mouse manufacturers).
-> Interesting how much things have progressed in 5 years.
You must have been early by a few months or no more than a year at most,
because by late '82 or early '83 I was writing a driver for a Mouse Systems
Corp optical mouse, which had just come on the market for PCs.
Mike Khaw
--
internet: mkhaw@teknowledge-vaxc.arpa
usenet: {hplabs|sun|ucbvax|decwrl|sri-unix}!mkhaw%teknowledge-vaxc.arpa
USnail: Teknowledge Inc, 1850 Embarcadero Rd, POB 10119, Palo Alto, CA 94303herbw@midas.UUCP (09/01/87)
-------- In Article <1987Aug28.123711.18714@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu>, gbs@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Gideon Sheps) writes: > Apple did NOT invent the mouse, the window or anything else intrinsic > to the MacIntosh (or Amiga or MS-Windows) environment, they couldn't > successfully sue anyone for anything. Lawyers looking for a client > are refered to Xerox and the origional Smalltalk prototype systems that > goes back , what is it ? almost 10 years now? Apple was issued Patent Number 4,464,652 on August 7, 1984. This Patent describes the use of Pull Down Menus, which make a one button mouse practical. The original Xerox and Smalltalk work used a three button mouse. In an effort to avoid a religious war, let's not discuss the merits of one vs three button mice. Apple did successfully sue (if an out of court settlement which included an agreement to modify the product can be considered "successful") the producers of Gem Desktop (??) for the IBM PC, and they agreed to modify the product to avoid infringing the patent, including recalling units that had already been sold.
socha@drivax.UUCP (Henri J. Socha (x6251)) (09/04/87)
In article <1830@midas.TEK.COM> herbw@midas.UUCP (Herb Weiner) writes: >In Article <1987Aug28.123711.18714@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu>, >gbs@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Gideon Sheps) writes: >> Apple did NOT invent the mouse, the window or anything else intrinsic >Apple was issued Patent Number 4,464,652 on August 7, 1984. This Patent >describes the use of Pull Down Menus, which make a one button mouse practical. > Apple did successfully sue (if an out of court settlement which >included an agreement to modify the product can be considered "successful") >the producers of Gem Desktop (??) for the IBM PC, and they agreed to modify >the product to avoid infringing the patent, including recalling units that had >already been sold. FYI, yes it is called GEM Desktop (the finder equivalent) written by employees at Digital Research Inc. of CP/M fame. There was more in the suit including "an undisclosed amount of money" but word around here says that this was token, just some PR amount. There are GEM Applications: Graph, Draw Plus, Publisher, "Scanner", etc. Interestingly, Regis McKenna the PR man was on the board of both companies. Also, Atari was not sued and I think still uses the desktop Apple did not like. ---- Disclaimer: I don't speak for my employer. All comments are my own and may be utterly fictitious though I try to be as factual as possible. Yes, I am employed by DRI but in this instance only allows me to know some of what was going on from both sides. (Like my Datapoint first "PC" and LAN knowledge.) Yes, I do own and like my Mac (SE-20) and would rather not get into a discussion about the relative merits. (So no FLAMES and don't type 'f' I was just really trying to answer a ???.) -- UUCP:...!amdahl!drivax!socha WAT Iron'75 "Everything should be made as simple as possible but not simpler." A. Einstein
aii@s.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mackenzie) (09/04/87)
In article <1681@watcgl.waterloo.edu>, kdmoen@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Doug Moen) writes: > Well, Smalltalk goes back to 1972, which is 15 years ago. > The mouse was invented at Stanford in the late 60's by Doug Englebart. > I once saw a claim that windows were invented long before Smalltalk as > well, but I can't find the reference or substantiate it. The first reference I have seen to windows is in Arthur C. Clark's "2001, a Space Odessey" He has one of the crew members touching a "postage stamped sized picture" on a flat screen. This picture then grows to fill the whole screen. Arthur C. Clark is credited for being the first to describe geosynchronous communication satellites, looks like he also invented touch screens, & windowing. ( Although he may have gotten these from someone else ) Michael MacKenzie mm@arthur.cs.purdue.edu
howard@cpocd2.UUCP (09/12/87)
In article <1681@watcgl.waterloo.edu> kdmoen@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Doug Moen) writes: >Well, Smalltalk goes back to 1972, which is 15 years ago. >The mouse was invented at Stanford in the late 60's by Doug Englebart. >I once saw a claim that windows were invented long before Smalltalk as >well, but I can't find the reference or substantiate it. Windows antedate Smalltalk, but *overlapping* windows were first implemented in Smalltalk, by Diana Merry. Very few people today would settle for non-overlapping windows only. -- Howard A. Landman ...!{oliveb,...}!intelca!mipos3!cpocd2!howard howard%cpocd2%sc.intel.com@RELAY.CS.NET "Let the words be yours, I am done with mine."
gillies@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu (09/13/87)
Actually, with a sufficiently large screen (1K * 1K), overlapping
windows ("Tiled") don't have a really big advantage. For instance,
Xerox's STAR used tiled windows, but they were later replaced by
overlapping windows. Xerox PARC's most sophisticated environment
(Cedar) uses tiled windows today.
When I worked in XDE at Xerox (1024*808 display), I always tiled my
windows by hand. I'd use the overlapping-ness to cover up excess
window window borders. This practice made overlapping windows provide
a small fraction (10%?) more efficient use of the display. Maybe you
can get this 10% back with a proper tiling design. Maybe tiling has a
bad name because not many people have looked into the critical design
issues (like how to nicely "uncover" objects in a root window, and how
to have dozens of windows available with one mouse-click).
Don Gillies {ihnp4!uiucdcs!gillies} University of Illinoissbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) (09/14/87)
In article <841@cpocd2.UUCP> howard@cpocd2.UUCP (Howard A. Landman) writes: >Windows antedate Smalltalk, but *overlapping* windows were first implemented >in Smalltalk, by Diana Merry. Very few people today would settle for >non-overlapping windows only. Except, until recently, for some folks at Microsoft.... :-) - Steve