gillies@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu (09/13/87)
I fell in love with the Mac and want to purchase one soon. Our local
dealer said Apple will have a sale (approx 10% off) october 1-3, and
this will apply to university discounts.
However, three things really bother me:
(1) Using MacDraw and MacWrite, I was really frustrated by the small
screen. This makes me apprehensive about buying a Mac +/SE, especially
since my mother may use it, and her eyesight is fading -- not good if
you must frequently use "reduce screen" to see what you're doing. All
3rd-party displays base at $1500. I don't want to spend much more
than $3000 total.
(2) I understand the worth of the Macintosh O/S, but I am worried
about Apple's "closed system" approach arrogance. There are no clone
makers to drive down prices and keep Apple honest. Example: The SE is
configured to force people to buy hard disks from Apple (why can't I
buy an SE with one disk and buy a third-party HD? I must waste $$$ on
a 2-disk system).
(3) For many of the things I want to do, I don't think I can beat the
price/performance of a taiwan AT. < $2500 for an EGA color, 20Mb HD,
Modem, Mouse, MS-Word system, with processor performance between a Mac
SE and a Mac II.
I'd appreciate it if someone could address these concerns, since I
really want a Mac, but cannot buy one in good conscience right now.
Do other people see these things as problems? What are the solutions?
Don Gillies {ihnp4!uiucdcs!gillies} University of Illinoislmm@labsms.UUCP (09/14/87)
> Example: The SE is > configured to force people to buy hard disks from Apple (why can't I > buy an SE with one disk and buy a third-party HD? I must waste $$$ on > a 2-disk system). Is this true? - - I though any third party SCSI hard disk would do. As long as a the proper hard disk driver software was instaThiset
graifer@net1.ucsd.edu (Dan Graifer) (09/14/87)
In article <76000018@uiucdcsp> gillies@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > Example: The SE is >configured to force people to buy hard disks from Apple (why can't I >buy an SE with one disk and buy a third-party HD? I must waste $$$ on >a 2-disk system). Check out the ads from Warp-Nine. You buy a MacSE with two floppies, and they will give you a $100 rebate for your 2nd drive when you buy one of their internal hard disks. Dan Graifer graifer@net1.UCSD.EDU Disclaimer: Nobody ever listens to me anyways; Why should they start now?
bytebug@felix.UUCP (Roger L. Long) (09/15/87)
In article <76000018@uiucdcsp> gillies@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >However, three things really bother me: >(2) I understand the worth of the Macintosh O/S, but I am worried >about Apple's "closed system" approach arrogance. There are no clone >makers to drive down prices and keep Apple honest. Example: The SE is >configured to force people to buy hard disks from Apple (why can't I >buy an SE with one disk and buy a third-party HD? I must waste $$$ on >a 2-disk system). I've noticed a couple of ways the third-party vendors are handling this: One (Mirror Technologies) is offering a rebate for the extra floppy drive you remove when you install their hard drive. Their ad claims that your dealer swapping their 30MB drive for one of your 800K floppies will only cost $100 over the 20MB SE price. A 45MB drive is also available. Another company (Peripheral Land) is offering an external enclosure for the extra drive you remove when you buy their internal hard drives. One other possibility of what to do with your extra floppy would be to sell it to a Mac owner who has upgraded their system to an internal 800K drive and still has that 400K external drive which Apple refuses to upgrade. So, don't think you'll be forced to buy a hard disk from Apple. -- Roger L. Long FileNet Corp {hplabs,trwrb}!felix!bytebug
jwhitnel@csib.UUCP (09/15/87)
In article <76000018@uiucdcsp> gillies@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > >I fell in love with the Mac and want to purchase one soon. Our local >dealer said Apple will have a sale (approx 10% off) october 1-3, and >this will apply to university discounts. > >However, three things really bother me: > >(1) Using MacDraw and MacWrite, I was really frustrated by the small >screen. This makes me apprehensive about buying a Mac +/SE, especially >since my mother may use it, and her eyesight is fading -- not good if >you must frequently use "reduce screen" to see what you're doing. All >3rd-party displays base at $1500. I don't want to spend much more >than $3000 total. There exists "FreeWare" type utilities that increase the size of the of the fonts used for the menus and icons, as well as one that makes the cursor larger. Most user clubs will have these or you can get them off of Compuserve. You might also be able to get them from people on the net. Sorry but I don't remember the names. > >(2) I understand the worth of the Macintosh O/S, but I am worried >about Apple's "closed system" approach arrogance. There are no clone >makers to drive down prices and keep Apple honest. Example: The SE is >configured to force people to buy hard disks from Apple (why can't I >buy an SE with one disk and buy a third-party HD? I must waste $$$ on >a 2-disk system). Unfortunate but true. The cost in duplicating a Macintosh is not the hardware, but rather the software. This includes the Finder and the ROM and consists of a large amount of code. Add to this Apple's holding onto their "look and feel" and I doubt you'll see any clones for awhile. However some vendors are offering rebates for the second drive so look around. > >(3) For many of the things I want to do, I don't think I can beat the >price/performance of a taiwan AT. < $2500 for an EGA color, 20Mb HD, >Modem, Mouse, MS-Word system, with processor performance between a Mac >SE and a Mac II. Processor performance of a 8 Mhz AT is about that of an SE, wheras a Mac II is 2 to three times that of an SE. However I agree, the price-performance ratio of an AT clone is hard to beat. I don't know what kind of things you want to do, but I suggest you find someone who owns a Mac that is doing the same kind of things and let them show you how easy it is to do your tasks on the Mac. Find a local user's group and they can help you. DON'T waste your time at the dealer, most dealer's know little about the equipment they're trying to sell you. I think you'll find the ease of use and the ease of integration worth the extra price. > >I'd appreciate it if someone could address these concerns, since I >really want a Mac, but cannot buy one in good conscience right now. >Do other people see these things as problems? What are the solutions? > >Don Gillies {ihnp4!uiucdcs!gillies} University of Illinois Jerry Whitnell It's a damn poor mind that can only Communication Solutions, Inc. think of one way to spell a word. -- Andrew Jackson
zrm@eddie.MIT.EDU (Zigurd R. Mednieks) (09/17/87)
In article <7334@felix.UUCP> bytebug@felix.UUCP (Roger L. Long) writes: >In article <76000018@uiucdcsp> gillies@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >> .... Example: The SE is >>configured to force people to buy hard disks from Apple (why can't I >>buy an SE with one disk and buy a third-party HD? I must waste $$$ on >>a 2-disk system). > >sell it to a Mac owner who has upgraded their system to an internal >800K drive and still has that 400K external drive which Apple refuses >to upgrade. > It appears that Apple is fostering a black market they would like to never see develop. Once there is a supply of Genuine Sony 800k drives floating around (with no reasonable way of tracking them) there is sure to be a black market in copies of 128k ROMs. Dealers will participate by putting in third party disk systems and removing the 800k drives. They have no use for them, so they will go out the door with the customer or they will be bought up by surplus dealers. Consumers will participate because it makes eminent sense to upgrade an otherwise useless 128k Mac using third party memory upgrades to bump it up to 2 or 4Mb + SCSI for the same price or less than Apple's upgrades to 1Mb. With the availbility of 800k drives, there will be a demand for pirate ROMs. Therefore, it looks like Apple should offer a "stripper" SE and allow the Mac Plus to fade away. Apple has become increasingly restricive with repair parts and upgrade packages. A Macintosh is a very rationally designed machine, and much easier to take apart and put togther than any PC with the possible exception of the new IBM machines. Yet all PC compatible vendors allow and indeed expect their customers to install peripheral cards, disk drives, etc. Only Apple requires their customers to take their machines to a dealer (while, with the other hand Apple grapples with the competency of dealer service shops) and spend a highway robbery rates for someone with the right kind of screwdriver to do what any child could do. Certainly if Mopar sells upgrade cams for Dodge Onmis that come with videotape instrautions for end-user installation, innovative Apple could come up with some way to let the self motivated among us to upgrade our Macs without spending money on a possibly less competent person to do it for us. -Zigurd