boz@dartvax.UUCP (John Boswell) (09/13/87)
I recently purchased a Rodime 20 Plus hard disk. It seems to work fine, and I am very happy with it. However, the following problem has occured: If I turn on my Mac Plus w/o turning on the harddisk, the screen comes on, but as soon as it is done with its 'memory test" (or whatever), instead of getting the expected Mac icon in the center, the screen just goes black, and I get nothing. This is with or w/o a disk in the internal or external drive(s). If the harddisk is turned on first, i then get the expected Mac icon, then the "happy mac".... and I get booted up via the harddisk. If a disk is in the internal drive, it boots off that. This normally would not be a problem, but for some games I have to boot off the internal disk...It's a pain to have to turn on the harddisk also. (And some games "quit very inelegantly", so I would rather have the harddisk off..) Also, if i turn on the harddisk, put a floppy inthe internal drive then turn on the Mac, it boots off the floppy. If i start a game (i.e. Mac- Golf), then turn OFF the harddisk, the system hangs!!! Any hints/explanations/etc. would be GREATLY appreciated! John Boswell boz@dartmouth.edu
sysop@stech.UUCP (Jan Harrington) (09/15/87)
in article <7040@dartvax.UUCP>, boz@dartvax.UUCP (John Boswell) says: > > > I recently purchased a Rodime 20 Plus hard disk. It seems to work > fine, and I am very happy with it. However, the following problem has > occured: > If I turn on my Mac Plus w/o turning on the harddisk, the screen > comes on, but as soon as it is done with its 'memory test" (or whatever), > instead of getting the expected Mac icon in the center, the screen just > goes black, and I get nothing. This is with or w/o a disk in the internal > or external drive(s). Question - why are you turning off the hard drive in the first place? If you use the computer at least once a day, just leave the hard drive running. That's what's usually recommended, since the power up/power down sequence is hard on the drive. Unless you'll not be using it for several days, you might as well leave it up. Most hard drives for the Mac draw very little power. (There are going to be people who will argue with this philosophy - I'm prepared - so hit me ... :-)) Those games which insist that you boot from them really don't, I've discovered. Just boot from the hard disk, insert the game floppy, and double click on the game icon. I've not found one yet that will run in that way. Jan Harrington, sysop Scholastech Telecommunications ihnp4!husc6!amcad!stech!sysop
ching@amd.AMD.COM (Mike Ching) (09/16/87)
In article <7040@dartvax.UUCP> boz@dartvax.UUCP (John Boswell) writes:
[paraphrase] My system doesn't boot with the hard disk powered off.
Isn't this a problem with the early 128K ROMs. I'm afraid I don't
remember the ID, just the nickname Lonely Hearts became Lonely
Heifer or something like that.
mike chinggnome@oliveb.UUCP (Gary) (09/16/87)
> If I turn on my Mac Plus w/o turning on the harddisk, the screen > comes on, but as soon as it is done with its 'memory test" (or whatever), > instead of getting the expected Mac icon in the center, the screen just > goes black, and I get nothing. This is with or w/o a disk in the internal > or external drive(s). > ...then turn on the Mac, it boots off the floppy. If i start a game (i.e. Mac- > Golf), then turn OFF the harddisk, the system hangs!!! > John Boswell As long as the powered-down HDU is plugged into the Scuzzy port, it will tell the Mac that it isn't ready and will hang the system. If you unplug the HDU, it will allow the system to boot on it's merry way... (It would be nice to easily be able to isolate the HDU from the Scuzzybus when powered-down... oh well.) Gary "20-20-24 hours to go... I wanna work for Apple" - The Ramones (not really)
chow@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Christopher Chow) (09/16/87)
In article <7040@dartvax.UUCP> boz@dartvax.UUCP (John Boswell) writes: > If I turn on my Mac Plus w/o turning on the harddisk, the screen >comes on, but as soon as it is done with its 'memory test" (or whatever), >instead of getting the expected Mac icon in the center, the screen just >goes black, and I get nothing. This is with or w/o a disk in the internal Is your Mac Plus one of the first units? A bug in the original 128K ROM prevents the Mac Plus to boot if it has an SCSI device attached to the SCSI bus and the device is off. Christopher Chow /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Internet: chow@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (128.84.248.35 or 128.84.253.35) | | Usenet: ...{uw-beaver|ihnp4|decvax|vax135}!cornell!batcomputer!chow | | Bitnet: chow@crnlthry.bitnet | | Phone: 1-607-253-6699, USPS: 7122 N. Campus 7, Ithaca, NY 14853 | | Delphi: chow2 PAN: chow | \---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
lsr@apple.UUCP (09/17/87)
In article <5188@oliveb.UUCP> gnome@oliveb.UUCP (Gary) writes: > > > If I turn on my Mac Plus w/o turning on the harddisk, the screen > > comes on, but as soon as it is done with its 'memory test" (or whatever), > >As long as the powered-down HDU is plugged into the Scuzzy port, it will >tell the Mac that it isn't ready and will hang the system. This should only be a problem on the earliest versions of theMac Plus ROMs. See Tech Note #139 for more info. -- Larry Rosenstein Object Specialist Apple Computer AppleLink: Rosenstein1 UUCP: {sun, voder, nsc, mtxinu, dual}!apple!lsr CSNET: lsr@Apple.com
boz@dartvax.UUCP (09/17/87)
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about the Hard disk problems. I 8do* have one of the first Mac Plus's, so I guess I will have to replace the ROMS. (Those that mailed responses to me, and are not getting a reply, thankyou!... the problem is I can't get the mail program to sent return mail to everyone....I'm relatively new to UNIX) John Boswell
julian@riacs.UUCP (09/18/87)
In article <151@stech.UUCP> sysop@stech.UUCP (Jan Harrington) writes: > Those games which insist that you boot from them really don't, I've > discovered. Just boot from the hard disk, insert the game floppy, and > double click on the game icon. I've not found one yet that will run in > that way. Here are a few: MacAttack Airborne! Microsoft Flight Simulator absolutely insists on being the boot disk. If it's not it will put up a message and refuse to run. Shanghai will restart the machine if it's not the boot disk. What's so bad about that is that it doesn't restart the Mac properly, so the next time you try to use your hard disk it has to go through the lengthy verification procedure. -- Scientists will study your brain to learn more about your distant cousin, Man. Julian "a tribble took it" Gomez julian@riacs.edu || {...decvax!}ames!riacs!julian
lriggins@sscafit-ab.arpa (Leonard M. Riggins) (09/19/87)
munch In article <628@hydra.riacs.edu> julian@hydra.riacs.edu.UUCP (Julian E Gomez) writes: >In article <151@stech.UUCP> sysop@stech.UUCP (Jan Harrington) writes: >> Those games which insist that you boot from them really don't, I've >> discovered. Just boot from the hard disk, insert the game floppy, and >> double click on the game icon. I've not found one yet that will run in >> that way. > >Here are a few: > >MacAttack >Airborne! > >Microsoft Flight Simulator absolutely insists on being the boot disk. >If it's not it will put up a message and refuse to run. Shhhh! Don't say that Flight Sim won't do as Jan wrote. My SE might hear you and quit doing it like it has since I bought it. I just click on the icon and it runs. When I select Quit it ejects the floppy and reboots off the hard drive. -- Leonard "Maurice" Riggins
anson@elrond.CalComp.COM (Ed Anson) (09/21/87)
In article <628@hydra.riacs.edu> julian@hydra.riacs.edu.UUCP (Julian E Gomez) writes: >Microsoft Flight Simulator absolutely insists on being the boot disk. >If it's not it will put up a message and refuse to run. Not only that, but it uses System version 3.2. Now try running that on an SE! (NO, DON'T!) I did, and it scrambled my desktop. I have seen no practical way to fix it, either. -- ===================================================================== Ed Anson, Calcomp Display Products Division, Hudson NH 03051 (603) 885-8712, anson@elrond.CalComp.COM
julian@riacs.edu (Julian E Gomez) (09/22/87)
In article <202@sscafit-ab.arpa> lriggins@ssc.UUCP (Leonard M. Riggins) writes: > Shhhh! Don't say that Flight Sim won't do as Jan wrote. My SE might > hear you and quit doing it like it has since I bought it. I just click > on the icon and it runs. When I select Quit it ejects the floppy and > reboots off the hard drive. On a FatMac or a MacPlus my copy of Flight Simulator will not run unless it is the startup disk. If you try anything else it simply says "Flight Simulator must be the startup disk using the internal drive. Click mouse button to reset Macintosh." My copy is an old one (serial number < 100) so either something is different about your SE or Microsoft finally got around to fixing the problem and didn't bother to tell their registered users. -- "Physicists are mathematicians in a hurry" B. Mandelbrot Julian "a tribble took it" Gomez julian@riacs.edu || {...decvax!}ames!riacs!julian
lriggins@sscafit-ab.arpa (Leonard M. Riggins) (09/22/87)
In article <629@hydra.riacs.edu> julian@hydra.riacs.edu.UUCP (Julian E Gomez) writes: >In article <202@sscafit-ab.arpa> lriggins@ssc.UUCP (Leonard M. Riggins) writes: >> Shhhh! Don't say that Flight Sim won't do as Jan wrote. My SE might >> hear you and quit doing it like it has since I bought it. I just click >> on the icon and it runs. When I select Quit it ejects the floppy and >> reboots off the hard drive. > >On a FatMac or a MacPlus my copy of Flight Simulator will not run >unless it is the startup disk. If you try anything else it simply says >"Flight Simulator must be the startup disk using the internal drive. >Click mouse button to reset Macintosh." My copy is an old one (serial >number < 100) so either something is different about your SE or >Microsoft finally got around to fixing the problem and didn't bother to >tell their registered users. > julian@riacs.edu || {...decvax!}ames!riacs!julian I'm not sure what the serial number is on my disk, there are two numbers. The first, typed directly on the label is S-267, and the other, on a piece of tape, is 030096.102. Perhaps the 102 is the release number. To perhaps clarify further, the disk I'm running is a CopyIIMac (v6.3) backup. (I absolutely refuse to run the original disk of anything!) Never bothered to check the System file version number, but like most commercial products, it's probably older than the SE version. I've never had FltSim scramble the Desktop file either, just make sure that all hard disk windows are closed. (Hard Disk is the stock SE Apple (Rodime)). -- Leonard "Maurice" Riggins
chris@umbc3.UMD.EDU (Chris Schanzle) (09/22/87)
> > Shhhh! Don't say that Flight Sim won't do as Jan wrote. My SE might > > hear you and quit doing it like it has since I bought it. I just click > > on the icon and it runs. When I select Quit it ejects the floppy and > > reboots off the hard drive. > > On a FatMac or a MacPlus my copy of Flight Simulator will not run > unless it is the startup disk. Both you guys are correct. Remember MicroSoft dropped copy protection on ALL their software products in the not too distant past. This includes Microsoft Flight Simulator. You can make backups of recent disks simply by using a sector copy in Copy II Mac. (I suppose you could drag it in the Finder to a hard disk, but I don't trust the finder in copying possibly strange files.) Hope this helps clear up the situation -- -- ARPA : chris@umbc3.UMD.EDU BITNET : chris@umbc "A Top Gun instructor once told me there are only four occupations worthy of a man: actor, rock star, jet fighter pilot, or President of the United States."
lriggins@sscafit-ab.arpa (Leonard M. Riggins) (09/23/87)
In article <495@umbc3.UMD.EDU> chris@umbc3.UMD.EDU (Chris Schanzle) writes: (deleted text) >Both you guys are correct. Remember MicroSoft dropped copy protection on >ALL their software products in the not too distant past. This includes >Microsoft Flight Simulator. You can make backups of recent disks simply >by using a sector copy in Copy II Mac. (I suppose you could drag it in >the Finder to a hard disk, but I don't trust the finder in copying possibly >strange files.) > >Hope this helps clear up the situation -- I consider my copy to be copy protected because it can't be copied with the Finder (It finds a defective loader2 file on the duplicate). The copy made with CopyIIPC runs ok as I described before even if it isn't the boot disk. (I always thought if you launched an application from a disk other than the start-up disk, and that new disk had a 'blessed' folder, the new disk became the start-up or system disk anyway). I did copy the files to the hard disk once with the Finder but got a dialog box saying FltSim won't run off a hard disk...too bad. -- Leonard "Maurice" Riggins
mayerk@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Kenneth Mayer) (09/23/87)
MS Flight Simulator will work on an SE. But it will mess up the root window of an SE/Hard Disk combination. That is, (v1.00) doesn't support HFS. Things sort of recover when you reboot off of the hard disk. -- ----- ===== ----- ===== ----- ===== ----- Kenneth Mayer | Teacher: "Two plus two equals..." mayerk@eniac.seas.upenn.edu | Student: "Four, but what's a two?" ----- ===== ----- ===== ----- ===== ----- Kenneth Mayer | Teacher: "Two plus two equals..." mayerk@eniac.seas.upenn.edu | Student: "Four, but what's a two?"