geb@cadre.UUCP (09/30/87)
References: I just got the upgrade to MacScheme/Toolsmith and popped the disk into the floppy drive. The drive jammed. Retrieving the disk, I found that the sliding protective cover had been sealed shut by a little sticker which said something like if you break this seal you agree to the license agreement (recently found not to be valid by the courts, incidentally). This prevented the drive from being able to open the slide and jammed the drive, which now will require repair. (Fortunately, we have a service contract). I just wanted to warn everyone to inspect the floppys from Semantic Microsystems and remove the little stickers before ruining their drives. This is definitely a lame-brain idea and may rebound against the company if more people do what I did.
psych@watdcsu.waterloo.edu (R.Crispin - Psychology) (10/01/87)
Many companies put those little stickers on the gates of the floppies. You must have had to work awfully hard to jam the disk into the machine. I would have thought you would suspect something when a gentle push didn't get the disk into the drive. I have made it a habit to do a quick check of all the diskettes I get just to be sure they're ok before I stick them in the machine. You should not blame the company because you didn't look especially when the standard practice is to sticker the gate closed. Richard Crispin Dept. of Psychology University of Waterloo Waterloo, Ont. Canada N2L 3G1 (519)885-1211 ext 2879
fnf@mcdsun.UUCP (10/02/87)
In article <3907@watdcsu.waterloo.edu> psych@watdcsu.waterloo.edu (R.Crispin - Psychology) writes: >them in the machine. You should not blame the company because you didn't >look especially when the standard practice is to sticker the gate closed. Sorry, but it is entirely possible that a significant number of Mac users simply don't know that the gate is even supposed to move under use. The Mac is billed as the ultimate in user friendly interfaces, supposidly operable by people of all ages and skill levels. If such a naive user inserted a sabotaged disk like this into one of their drives and damaged it, I think they could make a good case for charging the company for any necessary repairs. -Fred -- # Fred Fish hao!noao!mcdsun!fnf (602) 438-3614 # Motorola Computer Division, 2900 S. Diablo Way, Tempe, Az 85282 USA
oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu.UUCP (10/04/87)
I've used two or three products that had a paper seal partially over the
sliding metal disk protector on the Macintosh floppy disks.
In all cases, when I inserted the new disk into the drive, the force of
insertion caused the paper seal to split, just as it is designed to do.
My guess is that this behavior is quite common, and harmless. I'm sorry to
hear that other people had trouble by not breaking the seal by hand.
Though why we should continue to use the word "floppy disk" to describe an
object that is stiff and square is a mystery to me.
--- David Phillip Oster --A Sun 3/60 makes a poor Macintosh II.
Arpa: oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu --A Macintosh II makes a poor Sun 3/60.
Uucp: {uwvax,decvax,ihnp4}!ucbvax!oster%dewey.soe.berkeley.edupsych@watdcsu.waterloo.edu (R.Crispin - Psychology) (10/04/87)
In article <382@mcdsun.UUCP> fnf@mcdsun.UUCP (Fred Fish) writes: +In article <3907@watdcsu.waterloo.edu> psych@watdcsu.waterloo.edu (R.Crispin - Psychology) writes: ++them in the machine. You should not blame the company because you didn't ++look especially when the standard practice is to sticker the gate closed. +supposidly operable by people of all ages and skill levels. If such +a naive user inserted a sabotaged disk like this into one of their +drives and damaged it, I think they could make a good case for charging +the company for any necessary repairs. +-Fred I agree with Fred when it comes to naive users. Personally I hate those stupid little stickers. But a moderately experienced user should be able to tell when the disk does not slide in easily but must be forced. It was not all users but the particluar user that I took exception with. She/he seemed to be a very experienced user who was careless. Complaining about a company because the individual user is careless is not too bright. Richard Crispin Dept. of Psychology University of Waterloo Waterloo, Ont. Canada N2L 3G1 (519)885-1211 ext 2879
akk2@ur-tut.UUCP (Atul Kacker) (10/05/87)
In article <382@mcdsun.UUCP> fnf@mcdsun.UUCP (Fred Fish) writes: >In article <3907@watdcsu.waterloo.edu> psych@watdcsu.waterloo.edu (R.Crispin - Psychology) writes: >>them in the machine. You should not blame the company because you didn't >>look especially when the standard practice is to sticker the gate closed. > >Sorry, but it is entirely possible that a significant number of Mac >users simply don't know that the gate is even supposed to move under >use. The Mac is billed as the ultimate in user friendly interfaces, >drives and damaged it, I think they could make a good case for charging >the company for any necessary repairs. ># Fred Fish hao!noao!mcdsun!fnf (602) 438-3614 Well, then if you happen to insert the Mac disk upside down into the disk drive (This has happened to two people who came to me for help) perhaps you can sue the disk manuafcturer for not putting a 'THIS SIDE UP' message on their floppies ;-) -- Atul Kacker Internet: akk2@tut.cc.rochester.edu UUCP : {decwrl,cmcl2}!rochester!tut!akk2
neil@dsl.cis.upenn.edu (Neil Radisch) (10/05/87)
In article <184@ur-tut.UUCP> akk2@tut.cc.rochester.edu.UUCP (Atul Kacker) writes: > >Well, then if you happen to insert the Mac disk upside down into the >disk drive (This has happened to two people who came to me for help) >perhaps you can sue the disk manuafcturer for not putting a >'THIS SIDE UP' message on their floppies ;-) > Actually you could and there might be a good chance you would win. The plantiff only need prove that he/she acted as any prudent person would. If you have a judge and jury that is for the most part computer illiterate they might see a definite need for a 'THIS SIDE UP' message. |----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | "Better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove | | all doubt" --- Abraham Lincoln | | | | neil@dsl.cis.upenn.edu.UUCP | |----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
bc@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (bill coderre) (10/05/87)
I hate those stickers, too. But gee... Some people.... BTW, if you read the licensing agreement, I think you will find it to be the BEST one around. They actually admit that they are liable for their software to operate as described in the manual. Not that saying anything in very small capital letters can change that liability, but NO other software I've seen (ya listening, lawyers at StripeyFruit??) is willing to actually have an agreement that accurately reflected what the real story was. Applause, long and loud. And read the part about using their libraries in your commercial programs, too. Anyway, real stuff: I was anxiously waiting for this full release (version 1.0), and I am impressed. Mosty important, with MacScheme, one can develop a full Mac application that will run in 512K (not very substantial, and maybe slow, but it's impressive) THAT IS MULTIFINDER COMPATIBLE. Yes, there are Scheme functions (wait-next-event) and (surrender-timeslice). Pretty darn impressive. Scheme is a small, friendly Lisp, quick to learn, with the syntax as "obvious" as possible. Not the 775 or so functions of Common Lisp, but enough. (I still wish there were built-in object-oriented programming, and packages.) In my previous rant, I mistakenly said that MacScheme didn't have macros. WRONG. They always have. It's those plutonium coffee beans that got to me. MacSheme is a full, letter-perfect implementation of the Scheme standard, and includes a trivial load file that converts it into a slightly off dialect that is used in the book "Structure and Interpretation in Computer Programming" (Sussman and Abelson and Sussman, 1986, MIT Press), which is a very popular text for an introductory computer science course. MacScheme also includes support for Mac programming in a pseudo-object oriented style, and enables scheme code to have several things running at once. Mini-tasking, as it were. Windows, menus, and events are dealt with nicely. Works on Mac II. Has an abstruse bug on Prodigy 4. I'm negotiating to get it fixed. An application builder is included, which strips a heap dump and sets the right bits to make the thing runnable. Code is now compiled, and reasonably fast. (Gabriel benchmarks were cited which claimed MacScheme is faster than Vax Common Lisp. I haven't verified them.) Base price, for the whole works, $395. I don't know if they are selling just the Scheme part minus Mac Toolsmith (the Mac support code) anymore. They have educational and volume discounts. I could honestly see doing consulting jobs in Scheme, for non-super-speedy code, and being able to finish an application that wuld work in a 512K or multi-finder environment, in a weekend. That's the power I want, and I think $395 is a good price for it. Semantic Micro Systems, see MacUser for address information. Anyway, I've only just got this version 1.0, so there might be some hidden bugs or slight inaccuracies in the above. More later. Cons and enjoy,..............................................bc
geb@cadre.dsl.PITTSBURGH.EDU (Gordon E. Banks) (10/05/87)
In article <3907@watdcsu.waterloo.edu> psych@watdcsu.waterloo.edu (R.Crispin - Psychology) writes: >Many companies put those little stickers on the gates of the floppies. >You must have had to work awfully hard to jam the disk into the machine. >I would have thought you would suspect something when a gentle push >didn't get the disk into the drive. I have made it a habit to do a quick >check of all the diskettes I get just to be sure they're ok before I stick >them in the machine. You should not blame the company because you didn't >look especially when the standard practice is to sticker the gate closed. > Perhaps it is the standard practice in Canada, but not here. And if it is standard, there should be a warning anyway for those who are buying their first program (Apple doesn't do it). I have quite a few programs, but this is the first one I have seen like this. What is more, Semantic Microsystems never did this on previous releases. After the drive was removed, the problem was apparent: the lever arm that opens the slide is a piece of flimsy sheet metal and is easily bent; fortunately, not to hard to fix. It doesn't take much force to bend the lever, and thus the drive design is also at fault. The folks at Semantic Microsystems were very nice, and I do not want to denigrate their company, which I like. They are discontinuing the practice of putting stickers on the slide, since this has happened to others too. They offered to pay for fixing the drive, but since we have an in-house technician, it was not necessary.