tr@wind.bellcore.com (tom reingold) (09/22/87)
[] Hi there! I need a terminal program that emulates a terminal well. My version of Red Ryder has lousy terminal emulation, i.e. it does not work under vi on Unix. The terminal program must also have file transfer abilities, such as Xmodem and Kermit and preferably both. Is there such a beast that you folks would recommend? If it can't be found for free, what should I buy? I am looking for high quality; saving money is not the primary objective. I am new in the Mac world so don't please assume I know anything at all. Thanks! Name: Tom Reingold Disclaimer: Nothing I say is an opinion. INTERNET: tr@bellcore.bellcore.com UUCP: <backbone>!bellcore!tr
fry@huma1.HARVARD.EDU (David Fry) (09/22/87)
In article <2645@bellcore.bellcore.com> tr@wind.UUCP (tom reingold) writes: >[] > >Hi there! I need a terminal program that emulates a terminal well. >My version of Red Ryder has lousy terminal emulation, i.e. it does >not work under vi on Unix. The terminal program must also have >file transfer abilities, such as Xmodem and Kermit and preferably >both. Is there such a beast that you folks would recommend? If >it can't be found for free, what should I buy? I am looking for >high quality; saving money is not the primary objective. What version of Red Ryder are you using? The latest (10.0) does vi perfectly well, I use it all the time. And several versions before 10.0 also seemed to do VT100 nicely. Your problem may be with your setting for the VT100 mode. To use vi you must have Red Ryder set to relative positioning, I think. Whatever your current setting is, make it the opposite and see if you like the result better. Of course, there are a lot of people who will point to other VT100 problems in Red Ryder, but I don't think vi is one of them. David Fry fry@huma1.harvard.EDU Department of Mathematics fry@harvma1.bitnet Harvard University ...!harvard!huma1!fry Cambridge, MA 02138
mentat@auscso.UUCP (Robert Dorsett) (09/22/87)
In article <2645@bellcore.bellcore.com> tr@wind.UUCP (tom reingold) writes: >[] > >Hi there! I need a terminal program that emulates a terminal well. >My version of Red Ryder has lousy terminal emulation, i.e. it does >not work under vi on Unix. The terminal program must also have >file transfer abilities, such as Xmodem and Kermit and preferably >both. Is there such a beast that you folks would recommend? If >it can't be found for free, what should I buy? I am looking for >high quality; saving money is not the primary objective. I recommend VersaTerm or VersaTerm Pro unreservedly. They are both fine, high-quality packages, offering good emulation and a bunch of features. VersaTerm's a nice, basic package that emulates a VT100/52, DG2600, and a Tektronix 4014. It sells for about a hundred bucks, I believe. VT Pro is clearly built upon VersaTerm, and will do everything except make you coffee. Both have built-in phone menus. Both will support macros, except that VT requires your type them in, while VT Pro will record actions. Other than that, there's just an exceptionally complete array of support routines. VersaTerm supports MacBinary (Mac-Mac file transfers), Mac Xmodem (MacTerm- inal-Mac file transfers, which can be done remotely), vanilla Xmodem, and Kermit. VT Pro supports all that, plus a couple of strange ones called "Binary Kermit" and "MacBinary Kermit." I seem to remember VT Pro selling for $200. My only complaint about either program is the lack of a character delay when sending text or dumping a clipboard. I use BBS's which simply aren't cap- able of keeping up with a full 1200 baud dump. VT permits a *line* delay, which is fine for UNIX machines from getting too confused, but a character delay is really needed. It seems to me to be a pretty basic feature, but I've been waiting for about two years and several incarnations of VT, and it hasn't appeared yet. I feel that VT Pro is overpriced in relation to Versaterm. Either Versaterm should be more expensive, or VT Pro should be much cheaper. Preferably, Versaterm should come in one flavor: VT Pro, which should ideally cost $100 or less. InTouch (InTalk) has been highly rated in the past as well, although I've never used it. It seems to offer many of the features of VersaTerm. One program you should keep away from at all costs is MacTerminal. It's gar- bage. Took forever to write, and they STILL haven't gotten it right. But it has that Apple logo, so of course sells quite well. -- Robert Dorsett {allegra,seismo}!sally!ngp!walt!mentat University of Texas at Austin {allegra,seismo}!sally!ngp!mentat mentat@auscso.UUCP
akk2@ur-tut.UUCP (Atul Kacker) (09/22/87)
In article <2860@husc6.UUCP> fry@huma1.UUCP (David Fry) writes: > >What version of Red Ryder are you using? The latest (10.0) >does vi perfectly well, I use it all the time. And several I have heard that starting from version 10.0, Red Ryder has become a commercial piece of software and is no longer shareware. If this is true, where do I go to get the latest version. Address ? Phone number ? I use MacKermit for vi and find that it does a good job. And its free ;-) -- Atul Kacker Internet: akk2@tut.cc.rochester.edu UUCP : {decwrl,cmcl2}!rochester!tut!akk2
see1@sphinx.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher) (09/23/87)
In article <372@auscso.UUCP> mentat@auscso.UUCP (Robert Dorsett) writes: >I recommend VersaTerm or VersaTerm Pro unreservedly.... >VersaTerm supports MacBinary (Mac-Mac file transfers), Mac Xmodem (MacTerm- >inal-Mac file transfers, which can be done remotely), vanilla Xmodem, and >Kermit. VT Pro supports all that, plus a couple of strange ones called >"Binary Kermit" and "MacBinary Kermit." Actually, plain ol' VersaTerm has Binary Kermit and MacBinary Kermit (I'm using 3.0, but my manual is from 2.10). And what's strange about Binary Kermit? It's what I use to download _programs_, instead of Text Kermit, for obvious reasons. (What you call "vanilla Xmodem" is listed as "Text Xmodem" in the menu). Just a minor quibble...but thanks for explaining what MacBinary was. I couldn't figure it out from the manual! (To quote the author, "As you become more familiar with transferring data, you will understand that a whole book could be written on this subject. Something I don't intend to do here." I noticed :-) ) Ellen Keyne Seebacher {ihnp4!gargoyle, oddjob}!sphinx!see1
fry@huma1.HARVARD.EDU (David Fry) (09/23/87)
In article <113@ur-tut.UUCP> akk2@tut.cc.rochester.edu.UUCP (Atul Kacker) writes: >In article <2860@husc6.UUCP> fry@huma1.UUCP (David Fry) writes: >I have heard that starting from version 10.0, Red Ryder has >become a commercial piece of software and is no longer >shareware. If this is true, where do I go to get the latest >version. Address ? Phone number ? Current Red Ryder owners of 9.4 or earlier can get 10.0 by sending $20 and their Red Ryder Maser Disk (the one with the label) to The FreeSoft Company 150 Hickory Drive Beaver Falls, PA 15010 It is $80 to new users. David Fry fry@huma1.harvard.EDU Department of Mathematics fry@harvma1.bitnet Harvard University ...!harvard!huma1!fry Cambridge, MA 02138
creech@unc.cs.unc.edu (Jeff Creech) (09/23/87)
In article <2645@bellcore.bellcore.com> tr@wind.UUCP (tom reingold) writes: >Hi there! I need a terminal program that emulates a terminal well. >My version of Red Ryder has lousy terminal emulation, i.e. it does >not work under vi on Unix. The terminal program must also have >file transfer abilities, such as Xmodem and Kermit and preferably >both. Is there such a beast that you folks would recommend? If >it can't be found for free, what should I buy? I am looking for >high quality; saving money is not the primary objective. Red Ryder works well as a VT100 with our Unix machines. Make sure you set Relative Origin Mode to "on" in the VT100 modes... box of the Special menu. I too am looking for a better terminal program. I've heard many good things about the latest versions of VersaTerm (3.0, 3.1-due soon) but would like to get Red Ryder to download files to the Mac, using Kermit, that have the cariage returns where they are supposed to. Something that uses the MacTerminal file transfer (macget and macput from Unix) and Kermit would be a major breakthrough. Chalk me up as being on the prowl for a terminal program. Jeff Creech Macintosh Development University of North Carolina Chapel Hill
mentat@auscso.UUCP (Robert Dorsett) (09/23/87)
In article <2861@husc6.UUCP> fry@huma1.UUCP (David Fry) writes: >Current Red Ryder owners of 9.4 or earlier can get 10.0 by >sending $20 and their Red Ryder Maser Disk (the one with the >label) to >The FreeSoft Company >150 Hickory Drive >Beaver Falls, PA 15010 > >It is $80 to new users. Now THAT is ridiculous. If I remember correctly, Red Ryder was developed as a learning project. The author started out with a VERY elementary dumb ter- minal in Microsoft Basic 1.0, then gradually enhanced it. He openly re- quested comments and produced at least two dozen major revisions of the program. I'd be very, very interested in seeing how he justifies the $80. "Development cost?" :-) (tangentially reminded of the "$150,000 investment" justification for Visicalc's $200 price tag, well after the company had made $20 million from it). It's well and fine for the author to try to make a buck, but $80's offensive. Most people will continue viewing the package as being *public domain*, and will copy and distribute it freely. I'd be surprised if he made more than $1000. Red Ryder is worth about $40, to be quite fair. Doesn't affect me one way or the other. I like my old VersaTerm. -- Robert Dorsett {allegra,seismo}!sally!ngp!walt!mentat University of Texas at Austin {allegra,seismo}!sally!ngp!mentat mentat@auscso.UUCP
david@uhccux.UUCP (David Lassner) (09/23/87)
In article <2645@bellcore.bellcore.com> tr@wind.UUCP (tom reingold) writes: >Hi there! I need a terminal program that emulates a terminal well. ... and another recent posting asked for a faster terminal emulator than RR. I use VersaTerm, and recommend it highly. Exellent VT-100 emulation, Kermit and Xmodem support, full featured emulator, and lots of Mac-ish goodies that you won't appreciate till you use them (like automatic mouse response to mainframe menu prompts). If you use your Mac as a terminal seriously, this is well worth the < $100 it will cost you. -- David Lassner, University of Hawaii Computing Center, 808/948-7351 INTERNET: david@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu PLATO: david/p/hawaii UUCP: {ihnp4,uunet,ucbvax,dcdwest}!sdcsvax!nosc!uhccux!david BITNET/OTHER: david%uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu@rutgers.edu
dsc@izimbra.CSS.GOV (David S. Comay) (09/23/87)
In article <372@auscso.UUCP> mentat@auscso.UUCP (Robert Dorsett) writes: >I feel that VT Pro is overpriced in relation to Versaterm. Either Versaterm >should be more expensive, or VT Pro should be much cheaper. Preferably, >Versaterm should come in one flavor: VT Pro, which should ideally cost $100 >or less. that's my big complaint about versaterm pro as well ... it sure seems overpriced. i believe the current price is actually $299 which isn't too bad considering what it does (especially the 4105 emulation) and how much terminals still cost these days. still the idea of paying about $300 for a terminal emulator makes me uneasy. >One program you should keep away from at all costs is MacTerminal. It's gar- >bage. Took forever to write, and they STILL haven't gotten it right. But >it has that Apple logo, so of course sells quite well. i disagree ... although it isn't fancy and it hasn't changed for a number of releases, it does have a very good vt100 emulaton (at least up to 2400 baud ... haven't tried it higher) and i haven't had any problems using it with the `standard' vt100 termcap supplied with 4.3 bsd. i think macterminal is a fine choice if one is only interested in good terminal emulation and the occasional download/upload. my choice ... oh, `uw' with a xmodem disk accessory. dsc `see across the view. see the sky ripped open. see the rain through the gaping wound, pounding the women and children who run into the arms of america'
mike@artsvax.UUCP (Michael Czeiszperger) (09/23/87)
In article <372@auscso.UUCP> mentat@auscso.UUCP (Robert Dorsett) writes: > >I recommend VersaTerm or VersaTerm Pro unreservedly. They are both fine, >high-quality packages, offering good emulation and a bunch of features. I've been shopping for other terminal emulator programs besides Red Ryder, but have not been able to find one feature which I cannot do without. Red's excellent command language makes it very easy to automatically log on to the dozens of systems I use every week. Remembering all the passwords and log on procedures is just to great a task. Is there any other package that supports automatic log on's via a command language? Thanks, Michael S. Czeiszperger | Disclaimer: "Sorry, I'm all out of pith" Sound Synthesis Studios | Smail: Room 406 Baker (614) College of the Arts Computer Lab | 1971 Neil Avenue 292- The Ohio State University | Columbus, OH 43210 0895 UUCP : {decvax,ucbvax}!cbosgd!osupyr!artsvax!mike
mrh@Shasta.STANFORD.EDU (Marc Hannah) (09/23/87)
I'm a huge VersaTerm fan ($99 list, $79 from ComputerWare). It is simply the best supported product I have. The emulation is very good, for fast connections (i.e. 9600 baud) the throughput is FAR superior to other programs. The latest version (3.1) supports background processing (including downloads) with MultiFinder. There is full Kermit and Xmodem support. VI and EMACS have extra support since you can configure VersaTerm to let you use the mouse to move the cursor in those editors. There is also Tektronix 4014 support. If you have graphics intensive needs then there is a higher priced version ($219 from ComputerWare) which supports Tek 4105 in full color on a Mac II. There is much more, but suffice it to say that it is an excellent product with GREAT support. David Gelphman daveg%slacvm.bitnet@forsythe.stanford.edu
stuart@ihlpf.UUCP (09/24/87)
In article <1375@unc.cs.unc.edu>, creech@unc.cs.unc.edu (Jeff Creech) writes: > I too am looking for a better terminal program. I've heard many good > things about the latest versions of VersaTerm (3.0, 3.1-due soon) but > would like to get Red Ryder to download files to the Mac, using Kermit, > that have the cariage returns where they are supposed to. Something that > uses the MacTerminal file transfer (macget and macput from Unix) and > Kermit would be a major breakthrough. > > Jeff Creech Well, Jeff, VersaTerm 2.0 and up have all worked with macput and macget as long as you set Mac Xmodem. I *AM USING* 3.1 as I type. Very nice- 132 column (not all visible at a time, of course) automatic macros, easily definable commands (with access to menus!). Do remember to use the -u options for macput and macget when you want to transfer TEXT files to/from Un*x. Oh, and another thing - I have seen 3.1 work under (beta) multifinder, downloading in the background, and on a Mac II, but haven't tried both at once. -- Stuart Ericson USnail: AT&T Bell Laboratories USENET: ...!ihnp4!ihlpf!stuart IH 6M-313 voice: (312) 979-4152 Naperville-Wheaton Rd. Naperville, Il 60566
straka@ihlpf.UUCP (09/24/87)
In article <372@auscso.UUCP> mentat@auscso.UUCP (Robert Dorsett) writes: >In article <2645@bellcore.bellcore.com> tr@wind.UUCP (tom reingold) writes: >I recommend VersaTerm or VersaTerm Pro unreservedly. They are both fine, ... >Both have built-in phone menus. Both will support macros, except that VT >requires your type them in, while VT Pro will record actions. Other than ... >Kermit. VT Pro supports all that, plus a couple of strange ones called >"Binary Kermit" and "MacBinary Kermit." I seem to remember VT Pro selling >for $200. Versaterm 3.0 supports the Binary Kermit and MacBinary Kermit protocols. It also supports "automatic macro define", although I haven't actually used it. Perhaps you are using Versaterm 2.0. The order taker explained to me that Versaterm 3.0 and Versaterm Pro 2.0 are *identical*, except for the additional graphics support in "Pro". -- Rich Straka ihnp4!ihlpf!straka Advice for the day: "MSDOS - just say no."
mrh@Shasta.UUCP (09/25/87)
In article <1851@uunet.UU.NET>, dsc@izimbra.CSS.GOV (David S. Comay) writes: > In article <372@auscso.UUCP> mentat@auscso.UUCP (Robert Dorsett) writes: ... > that's my big complaint about versaterm pro as well ... it sure seems > overpriced. i believe the current price is actually $299 which isn't > too bad considering what it does (especially the 4105 emulation) and > how much terminals still cost these days. still the idea of paying > about $300 for a terminal emulator makes me uneasy. ... For users who have limited or no graphics needs then standard VersaTerm is a bargain compared to other emulators. There is the 4014 support as well as full VT100 emulation and other goodies. I would look at that version which is $100 unless you need the fancy 4105 emulation or want to save Tektronix graphics as MacDraw files (which is available on the 'Pro' version). David Gelphman daveg%slacvm.bitnet@forsythe.stanford.edu
simon@alberta.UUCP (Simon Tortike) (09/25/87)
Thanks to all those who took the time to suggest terminal emulators suitable
for high-speed (>= 9600 baud) modems. Either there are a lot of owners of
shares in the company that markets Versaterm, or it is truly great product.
I am sure it is the latter. Good words were also put in about RR10.0.
I have RR10.0 on order, and have sent in the registration form for Tekalike
with the upgrade fee for TextTerm&Graphics. Tekalike is/was a good program,
so I hope the successor shines. If I didn't have all this money invested
in these two programs (RR and T&G) I would be buying Versaterm tomorrow.
-------------------
W. Simon Tortike
Dept Min, Met & UUCP: ...{ubc-vision,ihnp4,mnetor}!alberta!simon
Petroleum Engg BITNET: stortike@ualtavm
Univ. of Alberta AGT: (403) 432-3338
Edmonton, AB
Canada T6G 2G6denbeste@bgsuvax.UUCP (William C. DenBesten) (09/25/87)
I have one question about versaterm. Is it copy protected? One of our
faculty owns a copy and I spend a bit of time helping to back it up about
a year ago. Has this protection (?) been removed? I _refuse_ to use
any software that is copy protected. Especially when I depend on it to
perform my job.
I hope so, because I was almost impressed by it.
---
William C. DenBesten | CSNET denbeste@research1.bgsu.edu
Dept of Computer Science | UUCP ...!cbosgd!osu-cis!bgsuvax!denbeste
Bowling Green State University |
Bowling Green, OH 43403-0214 |mentat@auscso.UUCP (Robert Dorsett) (09/25/87)
In article <2305@ihlpf.ATT.COM> straka@ihlpf.UUCP (55223-Straka,R.J.) writes: >Versaterm 3.0 supports the Binary Kermit and MacBinary Kermit protocols. >It also supports "automatic macro define", although I haven't actually >used it. > >Perhaps you are using Versaterm 2.0. The order taker explained to me >that Versaterm 3.0 and Versaterm Pro 2.0 are *identical*, except for the >additional graphics support in "Pro". Perhaps I should list my only other complaint about the program. Peripherals, Computers, and Supplies are the people who distribute the program. It takes FOREVER to hear about significant upgrades. Once they do send out the flyers, though, they're reasonable about it (the minimal upgrade price usually includes a new disk and manual). It would appear that there's a world of difference between 2.0 and 3.0, yet *I* wasn't told about it... Having said that, I should note the bug support. The author has an exceptional track record with returning calls about bug fixes, and supplying individuals with temporary fixes. It just seems odd that in the face of such support, they keep their upgrades so secret... I think it'd be a good idea to give users a license to perform "spot upgrades" if they should encounter other users with later versions of the program. At the time that I upgraded from 1.4 to 2.0, the price charged was minimal, so I doubt that PCS is making any money off it. -- Robert Dorsett {allegra,seismo}!sally!ngp!walt!mentat University of Texas at Austin {allegra,seismo}!sally!ngp!mentat mentat@auscsonb: {(
geoff@usafa.UUCP (09/25/87)
Why not just get MacKermit. I supports vt-100 codes very very well. It obviously support kermit and its FREE!!!!!! geoff
mrh@Shasta.UUCP (09/28/87)
In article <1305@bgsuvax.UUCP>, denbeste@bgsuvax.UUCP (William C. DenBesten) writes: > I have one question about versaterm. Is it copy protected? One of our Early versions of VersaTerm were copy protected but the copy protection was removed some time ago and it is NO LONGER COPY PROTECTED. David Gelphman daveg%slacvm.bitnet@forsythe.stanford.edu
earleh@dartvax.UUCP (09/29/87)
In article <1305@bgsuvax.UUCP>, denbeste@bgsuvax.UUCP (William C. DenBesten) writes: > I have one question about versaterm. Is it copy protected? ... I have serial number 10003 of VersaTerm PRO, and it is not, and never has been, copy perverted. -- ********************************************************************* *Earle R. Horton, H.B. 8000, Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH 03755 * *********************************************************************
tom@iconsys.UUCP (10/01/87)
I have MacTerminal, and have used it for 2-1/2 years. Not having used
any others save MacKermit I can't say much except that I have no
complaints. I only use it (1200 baud) to read news, rarely to edit
files (vi-vt100), or play nethack on the computer at work. And it has
been more than adequate for those needs. I've only used it several
times to download files, but I don't recall any problems. One thing
I like is MacTerminal documents: you set up all the parameters for
whatever you're communicating with, open the document and you're connected
if direct connect, or pull down dial, it dials and you're in. To
get to the computer at work I: turn on the modem, double-click on the
correct document, pull down "dial", wait for the connect and login. You
can't get much simpler than that.
QUESTION:
I have version 1.0 (I think) 17 Aug 84. It doesn't work on an
SE. Is there an upgrade from Apple that I can get for a modest amount
of money? Or would I be better off trying one of the ones you're all
talking about (see my usage above)?
Thanks.
--
Tom Kimpton uunet!iconsys!tom
ICON International, Inc. {ihnp4,psivax}!nrcvax!nrc-ut!iconsys!tom
Orem, Utah 84058 tom@iconsys.caedm.byu.edu
(801) 225-6888 iconsys!tom@byuadam.bitnetmps@duke.UUCP (10/04/87)
In article <387@auscso.UUCP> mentat@auscso.UUCP (Robert Dorsett) writes: [re VERSATERM terminal emulator] >Perhaps I should list my only other complaint about the program. Peripherals, >Computers, and Supplies are the people who distribute the program. It takes >FOREVER to hear about significant upgrades. Once they do send out the flyers, >though, they're reasonable about it (the minimal upgrade price usually includes >a new disk and manual). It would appear that there's a world of difference >between 2.0 and 3.0, yet *I* wasn't told about it... Heck, I'm using vesion 1.52, which I bought six months ago at Duke Student Stores (another consortium store selling outdated software). I sent in my registration card a little late, but I haven't heard anything about upgrades from PC&S. I have no complaints; but, although I am a heavy user, I don't use it other than to emulate a VT100 terminal for the computers at work (no downloading or anything). It handles all my emacs commands smoothly. I do have one question: occasionally, noise on the line manages to trigger something into writing 'Answerback Message' on the screen. What's this about? (It appears in the index, but nowhere else in my user manual.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael P. Smith mps@cs.duke.edu Today is the cadr of your life. decvax!mcnc!duke!mps
mentat@auscso.UUCP (Robert Dorsett) (10/15/87)
In article <107@artsvax.UUCP> mike@artsvax.UUCP (Michael Czeiszperger) writes: >In article <372@auscso.UUCP> mentat@auscso.UUCP (Robert Dorsett) writes: >I've been shopping for other terminal emulator programs besides Red Ryder, >but have not been able to find one feature which I cannot do without. >Red's excellent command language makes it very easy to automatically >log on to the dozens of systems I use every week. Remembering all the >passwords and log on procedures is just to great a task. Is there any >other package that supports automatic log on's via a command language? Yes, Versaterm has an "automatic macro define" in versions 3.0+ (apparently; I STILL haven't heard from Peripherals) and VT Pro. You turn on the recorder, the system monitors your inputs, then, when you're finished, you turn it off. The actions are converted to an editable "language." You can have 24 "programs" available at any moment, and apparently the ability to load any number. -- Robert Dorsett {allegra,seismo}!sally!ut-ngp!walt!mentat University of Texas at Austin {allegra, seismo}!sally!ut-ngp!auscso!mentat