mfi@ufcsg.cis.ufl.EDU (Mark Interrante) (10/02/87)
Does anyone know if hypercards allows a user to associate a button with a particular word in a text field? This is a generic operation in most hypertext systems and would be crippling to hypercards if such a facility was not readily available. I seems that Apple has underpowered the text facilities in favor of supporting extensive draw utilities. has anyone else found this hampering?
lippin@jiff (tom lippincott) (10/04/87)
mfi@ufcsg.cis.ufl.EDU (Mark Interrante) writes: >Does anyone know if hypercards allows a user to associate a button with a >particular word in a text field? I don't know whether a button can be associated with the actual text, but it's really easy to make a transparent button and put it over a word (or anything else). Of course, if the text changes, the button won't stick to the word. --Tom Lippincott lippin@bosco.berkeley.edu "Oh yeah!" -- I. Kant, _The_Critique_of_Pure_Reason_
thomsen@trwspf.TRW.COM (Mark Thomsen) (10/05/87)
In article <689@ufcsg.cis.ufl.EDU> mfi@ufcsg.cis.ufl.EDU (Mark Interrante) writes: >Does anyone know if hypercards allows a user to associate a button with a >particular word in a text field? This is a generic operation in most >hypertext systems and would be crippling to hypercards if such a facility >was not readily available. > >I seems that Apple has underpowered the text facilities in favor of supporting >extensive draw utilities. has anyone else found this hampering? A script (the principle unit of action in Hypercard) may be associated with a whole field or a button. Fields and buttons are two types of objects of roughly the same level of the inheritance hierarchy. Thus ... The direct answer is no, you cannot associated a button - or an action - with a specific word in a field. Yes, I do find this hampering, though this does not come from working with Hypertext previously. I would expect to expand and define and link a word in various contexts of browsing information. A thought ... I have been producing personal stacks to get myself organized and have just started thinking through some stacks I would like to share. (Yes, I'm that disorganized and yes my priorities are that way). In thinking of new stacks I have started a wish list for future Hypercard capabilities. Bill Atkinson, if you are out there: - Text seems to have a greater status than pictures. Now, without object drawing it is hard, but it seems sensible to have picture fields. - A Hyperartifact may have its spaghetti in the development and refinement, and use various wordprocessors, spreadsheets, drawing tools, etc. When done, it would be nice to say "print that" and have it all come together in a seemless document. While hypertext is important in its own write (sorry John Lennon, it slipped), it sometimes is part of the process and not necessarily the final artifact. - There should be an automatic map display and navigation capability as in the help stack -- it is an essential feature of hypertext. - In my dreams I think of "tiny agents" that perform in the background to help perform certain housekeeping, alerting, sorting, searching, and such functions. I would like to provide these as scripts that operate concurrently with browsing. This suggests scripts below the surface of Hypercard, unassociated with any visible field, button, background, and maybe even stack (though it has to be someplace, like its own file). I am unsure of exactly how this works, but it seems like a good thing to have. That's all for now folks. Mark R. Thomsen
keith@apple.UUCP (Keith Rollin) (10/06/87)
In article <689@ufcsg.cis.ufl.EDU> mfi@ufcsg.cis.ufl.EDU (Mark Interrante) writes: >Does anyone know if hypercards allows a user to associate a button with a >particular word in a text field? This is a generic operation in most >hypertext systems and would be crippling to hypercards if such a facility >was not readily available. > >I seems that Apple has underpowered the text facilities in favor of supporting >extensive draw utilities. has anyone else found this hampering? There are 2 methods suggested in the 1st and only issue of Windoid, Apple's Hypercard User Group's informal publication (it was posted here a couple of weeks ago). Method #1: Place a tansparent button over the word in question, or an asterisk button after it. This has the advantage of not being ambiguous, but it is not flexible (i.e. the button doesn't move with the text, as in a scrolling field). Method #2: Place this script within your field handler: on MouseDown Set locktext of me to false click at the clickloc click at the clickloc if the selection is "Apple" then answer "What kind of Apple" with "Macintosh" or "Apple II" else put "I don't know that word" into msg end if set locktext of me to true end MouseDown Of course, the disadvantages of this method are paramount, also. If you have a locked scrolling field, you may be able to do something with double-clicking on the word within the script (like above) and then finding its offset into the field. If it is in the right position, then do what you need. It says in the introduction of Danny Goodman's book that Bill Atkinson is dedicated to the evolution of HyperCard for the next several years. If this is the case, then be sure to make your request enhancements known. -- Keith Rollin Sales Technical Support Apple Computer Stupid Disclaimer: I read this board for fun, not profit Stupid Quote: If god had meant man to fly, he would have given him plane tickets
roberts@cognos.uucp (Robert Stanley) (10/12/87)
In article <6421@apple.UUCP> keith@apple.UUCP (Keith Rollin) writes: >There are 2 methods suggested in the 1st and only issue of Windoid, Apple's >Hypercard User Group's informal publication (it was posted here a couple of >weeks ago). >Method #1: Place a tansparent button over the word in question, or an > asterisk button after it. This has the advantage of not being > ambiguous, but it is not flexible (i.e. the button doesn't move > with the text, as in a scrolling field). there is one really serious problem with this approach, and that is that the font in which the text is displayed must not be altered. I ran into this in a big way with the first distributed version of HyperCard, where the help stack uses a transparent button over a text asterisk to link to additional information. Whatever font the help stack used, I don't appear to have on my system, and the asterisks displayed with only the most casual of relation to the position of the buttons! Absolutely baffling to a novice user. You can, however, write scripts capable of detecting specifici lines, words, and words within lines, but it gets to be a lot of programming, and is also susceptible to font changes (number of words per line changes). This is clearly one for Bill Atkinson, to allow a LIVE word within a text string to be used as a sub-button or sub-field. -- Robert Stanley Cognos Incorporated S-mail: P.O. Box 9707 Voice: (613) 738-1440 (Research: there are 2!) 3755 Riverside Drive FAX: (613) 738-0002 Compuserve: 76174,3024 Ottawa, Ontario uucp: decvax!utzoo!dciem!nrcaer!cognos!roberts CANADA K1G 3Z4
socha@drivax.UUCP (Henri J. Socha (7-x6628)) (10/14/87)
OK Atkinson et al, here's another obvious(?) addition to HyperCard: In article <1267@cartan.Berkeley.EDU> lippin@jiff.UUCP (tom lippincott) writes: >mfi@ufcsg.cis.ufl.EDU (Mark Interrante) writes: >>Does anyone know if hypercards allows a user to associate a button with a >>particular word in a text field? But, Hypertext was defined this way. Guide and other systems I've seen do it. >I don't know whether a button can be associated with the actual text, >but it's really easy to make a transparent button and put it over a word >(or anything else). Of course, if the text changes, the button won't stick to >the word. > --Tom Lippincott Now, can I do something like (sorry, it's not hypertalk but you get the idea) put location of "word" in field 1 into curses move button to curses (or some other equivalent action) I.E. so the button moves to always be under/over the text. and if the text is not visible, the button moves off screen? Anyway, the concept model (as I understand it) does not seem to allow buttons to be associated with text items within fields. I.E. they stick to the card/background and not the text. Hey! why not allow buttons to stick to text as an added check-box in the button info box? Anyway, I've bashed enough on a great product. -- UUCP:...!amdahl!drivax!socha WAT Iron'75 "Everything should be made as simple as possible but not simpler." A. Einstein
beloin@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Ron Beloin) (10/15/87)
In article <1555@cognos.UUCP> roberts@cognos.UUCP (Robert Stanley) writes: (oops, I deleted his text).. that font changes would upset the number of words on a line in hypercard fields, thereby confounding programming attempts to look at what word the user might be clicking or whatever. In fact, hypercard considers a "line" to be the chars between carriage returns (or thebeginning and end of field text), regardless of the word wrapped appearance of the text, so font changes will not change the number or position of words in a line. It can get confusing, however, if the user is entering text, and some end lines with cr's, and other users allow word wrapping. In that case, it is probably important to have separate fields designed to prevent such occurrences. ron. Ro n Beloin, Ecosystems Research Center, Corson Hall, Cornell, Ithaca,NY 14853 >> opinions << BITNET:BELOIN@CRNLTHRY; INTERNET:beloin@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu >> are mine << UUCP:{cmcl2,shasta,uw-beaver,rochester}!cornell!tcgould!beloin