tg@gt-cmmsr.GATECH.EDU (T. Govindaraj) (10/18/87)
I would like some help on configuring a Mac II. I am likely to get
a subsidy towards purchase of a Mac II and I would like to use this
opportunity to get a nice Mac II.
I plan to use Lisp and Smalltalk80 (from Parc Place Systems), in
addition to word processing etc. I would appreciate any comments
on Coral Lisp. (I have heard from a usually realiable and very
knowledgeable source, i.e., a friend who knows what he is talking
about, most of the time.) Therefore I have decided to buy Coral
Lisp. But, before I buy I would appreciate any advice and comments,
both pro and con, when there is still time.
Should I get Coral Lisp or Allegro Common Lisp? (My lisp experience
is with Franz Lisp and Interlisp-D.) Should I get extra memory, more
than the 1 MByte that is standard? (2 MByte/$450.00) Do I need extra
memory or is it for better performance?
What are the memory requirements for Smalltalk80? Am I better off
with more memory?
I do plan to get A/UX (and a hard disk) when they A/UX becomes available.
So I can't affor to spend all my money now! (Currently I plan to buy
the basic CPU, an extra internal floppy drive, extended keyboard, and
color stuff. I plan to buy MacWrite ($59))
Please reply via e-mail since I will be out-of-town for a couple of days
and this newsgroup gets many many messages before I return. Thanks.
govind
--
T. Govindaraj
Internet: tg@cmmsr.gatech.edu
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ihnp4,linus,rutgers,seismo}!gatech!gt-cmmsr!tgcca@pur-phy (Charles C. Allen) (10/20/87)
(I'm posting this as a followup as well as a mail message since I think others might be interested). I have in front of me a packet of info from ParcPlace describing their Smalltalk-80 system. I have also talked to their support personnel a couple of times. For any of the Mac systems, you need 2M of memory and 4M of free disk. The prices range from $700 to $1300 for the actual virtual machine and virtual image, depending on whether you want the "vanilla" ST-80 environment or an environment with local goodies supported, and whether you want the version optimized for the 68020 and 68881. Gasp. Well, that certainly opened my eyes. Still, ST-80 is more than just a programming language. By the time you get set up with MacApp and some appropriate libraries, you could well be into the $700 range. Also, don't forget that you're basically giving up the Mac user interface, which may or may not be a factor for you. Since the mythical 4th book in the ST-80 series has yet to appear, there is very little documentation on the MVC model and whatnot. I was unable to get a good answer for what sort of "Toolbox" equivalent classes existed for things like Controls and Dialogs. I, personally, don't want to write a user interface. I want to write applications that USE an existing one. The real kicker is that the above prices are for NO SUPPORT. Support costs $1000/year for a site with 1-20 workstations. If you want to get upgrades (that includes bug fixes) you either have to buy the new version, or buy the support package. Ack! I have a little trouble visualizing the kind of market they're going after. It certainly isn't people like me. This is really too bad, especially with rumors of the next virtual image being incompatible with the VI the Apple version is based on. Charlie Allen cca@newton.physics.purdue.edu
barad@willy.usc.edu (Herb Barad) (10/21/87)
In article <912@pur-phy> cca@pur-phy (Charles C. Allen) writes: >(I'm posting this as a followup as well as a mail message since I >think others might be interested). I have in front of me a packet of >info from ParcPlace describing their Smalltalk-80 system. I have also >talked to their support personnel a couple of times. > >The real kicker is that the above prices are for NO SUPPORT. Support >costs $1000/year for a site with 1-20 workstations. If you want to >get upgrades (that includes bug fixes) you either have to buy the new >version, or buy the support package. Ack! I have a little trouble >visualizing the kind of market they're going after. It certainly >isn't people like me. I have no trouble visualizing who they are going after. I have been using PS (the name of their Smalltalk-80) for quite a while now on a Sun workstation. This product for the Mac II is just a port of that. I have a feeling that it will provide toolbox support, but I'm not sure of it. PS is a high performance, high quality development environment. It is FAR supirior to Apple's version. I have used version 0.3 of Apple's Smalltalk on a 2Meg Mac plus. I'm extremely happy with it considering the price (at the time, it was $50). Apple's Smalltalk is much cheaper, but not a professional development environment. The price mentioned for PS is not all that high for industry. That's who they are going after. They cannot compete with Apple's $50 price just because of the complexity of PS. By the way, there IS a university discount and it is quite nice (90% DISCOUNT). So, in summary: if you are an individual and cannot shell out the cash, then Apple's Smalltalk is probably a good start. If you are part of a larger group (industry or academic), then PS is worth looking at. Disclaimer: I don't represent ParcPlace Systems or have any ties with them except being a satisfied customer. Herb Barad [USC - Signal and Image Processing Institute] email: barad@brand.usc.edu or ...!sdcrdcf!oberon!brand!barad
alan@pdn.UUCP (Alan Lovejoy) (10/25/87)
In article <4789@oberon.USC.EDU> barad@willy.usc.edu (Herb Barad) writes: /In article <912@pur-phy> cca@pur-phy (Charles C. Allen) writes: />think others might be interested). I have in front of me a packet of />info from ParcPlace describing their Smalltalk-80 system. I have also />talked to their support personnel a couple of times. /> />version, or buy the support package. Ack! I have a little trouble />visualizing the kind of market they're going after. It certainly />isn't people like me. / /I have no trouble visualizing who they are going after. I have been /using PS (the name of their Smalltalk-80) for quite a while now on a /Sun workstation. This product for the Mac II is just a port of that. /I have a feeling that it will provide toolbox support, but I'm not /sure of it. / /The price mentioned for PS is not all that high for industry. That's /who they are going after. They cannot compete with Apple's $50 price /just because of the complexity of PS. By the way, there IS a /university discount and it is quite nice (90% DISCOUNT). / PS/68020 is the creme de la creme of ST-80 systems. On the Mac II it's 102% of a Dorado in performance (Smalltalk-AT on a PC's LTD 386 is something on the order of 27% of a Dorado). Highly recommended if you can scrape up the pennies. If not, then you can buy either Smalltalk/V from Digitalk (now in beta), or Actor (not ST-80, but the best alternative; not yet available, but it should be by Summer '88 or thereabouts), or even the next release of Apple Smalltalk (Kent Beck is currently perfecting it). --alan@pdn (Hope this helps...)