mkao@crash.CTS.COM (Mike Kao) (10/27/87)
Until recently, I was sure that my next computer purchase would be a Mac II.
However, a friend of mine instilled within me doubts by saying that many
existing Mac software packages and MOST games won't work on the II. Granted,
I'm not purchasing the II for just games, but I would hate not having that
option. Also, I fear that since that machine is not geared toward entertainment,
most software companies will probably not upgrade and/or write machine specific
games for the II. Can anyone contradict my assumption?
Anyways, my choice now is the Mac SE. I have a couple of questions regarding
this machine:
1) How's the software compatibility with the existing Mac software base?
2) Does it have the capacity to upgrade to the Mac II's stature in the future
(like in terms of color graphics, clock speed, math coprocessor, multi-
tasking, etc.)
3) Will be able to run Unix?
4) What's the real difference between the SE and OLDER Macs?
--
To insure my reception of any replies, please respond via e-mail. Thanks!
-- Mike Kao
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ARPA: crash!pnet01!mkao@nosc.mil
INET: mkao@pnet01.CTS.COMgeb@cadre.dsl.PITTSBURGH.EDU (Gordon E. Banks) (10/28/87)
In article <1912@crash.CTS.COM> mkao@crash.CTS.COM (Mike Kao) writes: >Until recently, I was sure that my next computer purchase would be a Mac II. >However, a friend of mine instilled within me doubts by saying that many >existing Mac software packages and MOST games won't work on the II. Granted, >I'm not purchasing the II for just games, but I would hate not having that >option. Also, I fear that since that machine is not geared toward entertainment, >most software companies will probably not upgrade and/or write machine specific >games for the II. Can anyone contradict my assumption? The Mac II offers so many advantages, that I think it will take over as the main line product as the price drops. It isn't hard to write games for it, and as new games come out, they will all work on the Mac II (some don't even work on the SE, including Dark Castle, don't forget). The mac II will be upgradable for a long time (see the Apple II), but the SE will probably only last 2-3 years. The only reason I can see to order the SE is if you need the small physical size.
cute@sphinx.uchicago.edu (John Cavallino) (10/28/87)
In article <858@cadre.dsl.PITTSBURGH.EDU> geb@cadre.dsl.pittsburgh.edu.UUCP (Gordon E. Banks) writes: >The Mac II offers so many advantages, that I think it will >take over as the main line product as the price drops. >It isn't hard to write games for it, and as new games come >out, they will all work on the Mac II (some don't even work >on the SE, including Dark Castle, don't forget). The mac ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >II will be upgradable for a long time (see the Apple II), >but the SE will probably only last 2-3 years. The only >reason I can see to order the SE is if you need the small physical >size. This is untrue. Dark Castle works perfectly on the SE, since Apple retained support for the alternate screen-buffer. Essentially the only differences between the Mac Plus 128k ROM and the Mac SE 256k ROM (VERY different from the Mac II 256k ROM) are a re-written (=debugged) SCSI Manager and new routines to support the ADB keyboard/mouse interface. Assertion: The Mac SE is a faster, more easily expandable Mac Plus, with a better keyboard, a MUCH nicer mouse, and a more robust power supply. -- ...ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!cute (insert pithy quote here)
gardner@prls.UUCP (10/28/87)
In article <858@cadre.dsl.PITTSBURGH.EDU> geb@cadre.dsl.pittsburgh.edu.UUCP (Gordon E. Banks) writes: >In article <1912@crash.CTS.COM> mkao@crash.CTS.COM (Mike Kao) writes: >(some don't even work >on the SE, including Dark Castle, don't forget). Hmmm, I wonder what that game is I've been playing on my SE that sure has the look and feel of Dark Castle... :-) It works fine on the SE, at least on the Beginner level (haven't ever tried it on Intermediate or Advanced :-) Robert Gardner
jteh@mulga.oz (J.T. Teh) (10/29/87)
In article <858@cadre.dsl.PITTSBURGH.EDU>, geb@cadre.dsl.PITTSBURGH.EDU (Gordon E. Banks) writes: > In article <1912@crash.CTS.COM> mkao@crash.CTS.COM (Mike Kao) writes: > >Until recently, I was sure that my next computer purchase would be a Mac II. > >However, a friend of mine instilled within me doubts by saying that many > >existing Mac software packages and MOST games won't work on the II. > > It isn't hard to write games for it, and as new games come > out, they will all work on the Mac II (some don't even work > on the SE, including Dark Castle, don't forget). Perhaps some enterprising third party hardware developer will develop a 68000 downgrade card for the macII. Then all Mac+ games will work on the macII ! Seems the easiest but most expensive (to the user) solution. --------------------------- J.T Teh "He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - James Elliot =========================== UUCP: {seismo,mcvax,ukc,ubc-vision}!mulga!jteh ARPA: jteh%mulga.oz@seismo.css.gov CSNET: jteh%mulga.oz@australia
gillies@uiucdcsp.UUCP (10/29/87)
Apple averages about >1.5 machines/yr: Mac(84), Mac512K, Mac512KE,
Mac+, MacSE, MacII . At present, Apple sells three machines. If we
assume Apple marketing doesn't want to hassle with more than 2-3 Macs
for sale at a time, then in 2.5 years the MacII will be the
bottom-of-the-line macintosh, and lesser machines will be
discontinued. The MacII is Apple's only gun against 80386 clones,
which will dominate by then.
Face it, the 68020 is the wave of the future. The 68000 is a crufty
processor with some primitive, inefficient, broken microcode
(remember, it was supposed to page but there were bugs..) I'll bet
the MacSE is the LAST Apple machine to ever use the 68000. The next
"low end Mac" will probably have at least a 12Mhz 68020 in it. 12Mhz
68020s will probably drop below $100 in bulk if they aren't there
already. So don't worry about the 68020 CPU.
At University Consortium prices, you can get a MacII monochrome
2-floppy (buy 3rd-party floppy) system for $3207. That's only $1400
more than an SE. For the money you get 4-bit grey-scale, a picture
twice the size, a 16Mhz 68020 (2.6 speedup), 68881 floating point,
stereo sound and an open architecture. I believe the graphics speedup
exceeds 2.6 (BitBlt-type operations are outrageously fast), because
the 256K ROMs exploit the 68020 barrel shifter. Name a 3rd-party
upgrade for ANY mac that comes anywhere near this price/performance
level.
As far as software compatibility: What do you think professional
developers will use to write programs? Mac IIs. To write software
to specifically exploit SEs would be cross-development, a royal pain.
Don Gillies {ihnp4!uiucdcs!gillies} U of Illinoisjww@sdcsvax.UUCP (10/30/87)
While not every package runs on the Mac II, this is something
that will definitely fixed for supported commercial products
ASAP, so that's not a serious factor.
As for games, the speed might be a problem. But a bigger
problem is the screen buffer is a different size and in
a different location, which rules out the standard page-
flipping animation, such as in Dark Castle.
A very happy Mac II owner...
--
Joel West (c/o UCSD)
Palomar Software, Inc., P.O. Box 2635, Vista, CA 92083
{ucbvax,ihnp4}!sdcsvax!jww jww@sdcsvax.ucsd.eduwilson@rocky.UUCP (10/31/87)
In article <4202@sdcsvax.UCSD.EDU> jww@sdcsvax.UCSD.EDU (Joel West) writes: >As for games, the speed might be a problem. But a bigger >problem is the screen buffer is a different size and in >a different location, which rules out the standard page- >flipping animation, such as in Dark Castle. ... > Joel West (c/o UCSD) I am almost finished with an arcade-style game I am writing for Broderbund Software for the Mac, and I found that the extra speed of a Mac II allowed me to simulate a Mac+ on the II, replacing the page-flipping with drawing into an off-screen buffer and then doing a CopyBits into a window, when the program is running on a Mac II. Even doing this extra work, the program runs smoother and faster on a Mac II than on the Mac+ it is emulating in this mode. Randy