[comp.sys.mac] Disapearing Hard Drives on a Mac II

fiatlux@ucscc.UCSC.EDU.ucsc.edu (David Vangerov) (11/17/87)

I don't remember the article specifically, and I don't feel like
looking back for it, but someone had a problem when they set
their ram cache to 750K and then couldn't undo. Well, along the
way to undoing this, his hard drive suddenly disapeared from his
Mac II, and he had to reformat it.

Well, this happened to the one we had a at work (and another one
with the same problem came into the shop a while ago) and I
managed to restore the drive without having to reformat it and
such.

What happens is that some application that you were running has
managed to die and you were forced to reboot. Instead of getting
a happy mac and the mac rebooting in less than 7 seconds (WOW!,
what speed!), you get an icon asking you to insert disk. I don't
know how the Mac manages to forget about it's internal hard
drive, but it happens (and damn annoying when it does). Anyways,
this happened to me, I was very panicked and wonder if I had
trashed the disk somehow (I was attempting to restore someones
crashed disk and must've done something to the hard disk by
accident). Anyways, it's not there, I know that it is. Solution,
not reformatting it. All I had to do was get out my systems tool
disk, boot up with it, and then run the hard disk installer (HDSC
setup 1.4, I believe), it managed to find the drive, I simply
ran a test of the disk and updated the driver (the second time it
happened we just updated the driver) and after that, the disk
came back and things work just fine now.

A lot easier than having to reformat the disk and then restore
from backup (assuming that you are a responsible user and backup
your hardisk every week). 

Reformatting the drive won't help restore the control panel
settings to "factory mode" because the settings of the control
panel (and the other CDEV's, if I'm not mistaken) is kept in a
special part of memory that stays there even with the power off.
Someone called it the PRAM. I haven't dared try this with our mac
II yet, thought it would seem that all you have to do is remove
the battery for a second and then pop it back in if
Command-Shift-Option-Whatever doesn't do it for you. Of course
the battery on a Mac II is a little harder to get to than on a
standard Mac 512/Plus.


+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|		     	        David Vangerov				     | 
|    Just your average Theater Arts major with a weird thing for computers   |
| fiatlux@ucscc.BITNET || fiatlux@ucscc.ucsc.EDU || ...!ucbvax!ucscc!fiatlux | 
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

emuroga@uiucdcsb.UUCP (11/19/87)

    The CMS drives come with a utility called ZapPRAM, which resets the PRAM.
I've had to use this a couple of times. You just boot up with a floppy, and
run ZapPRAM, and then restart. Everything is back to normal.

Eisuke Muroga
University of Illinois
ARPA		emuroga@b.cs.uiuc.edu
CSNET		emuroga@uiuc.csnet
USENET		uiucdcsb!emuroga

creech@unc.cs.unc.edu (Jeff Creech) (11/19/87)

In article <1155@saturn.ucsc.edu> fiatlux@ucscc.UCSC.EDU (David Vangerov) writes:
>What happens is that some application that you were running has
>managed to die and you were forced to reboot. Instead of getting
>a happy mac and the mac rebooting in less than 7 seconds (WOW!,
>what speed!), you get an icon asking you to insert disk. I don't
>know how the Mac manages to forget about it's internal hard
>drive, but it happens (and damn annoying when it does). Anyways,


I've had the same problem on 4 of our 5 new Mac II's with 80 Meg drives.
(I know I'm a pretty lucky guy.)  I can't get the problem to happen
on any of our older II's, and have not been able to isolate the application(s)
that are causing the problem. I remember seeing some message about outdated
ROMs on the hard disk itself, and I assume that the II's I have have the
new ROMs (with slot manager fixed). Those are my only leads towards a solution.

Who else is seeing this? Maybe Apple can comment if they've seen this
problem. I'm carring a utilities disk around in my pocket at all times.

Thanks for all responses!
Jeff Creech
Macintosh Systems Specialist
Computer Services
UNC-CH Dept. of Computer Science

gamble@sfu_charon.cs.sfu (11/20/87)

Holding down command-option-shift while selecting the control panel
from the Apple menu will reset the PRAM to factory settings, for god sakes
don't remove the batteries.


				   /---VLSI Lab
				  /
...uw-beaver!ubc-vision!fornax!sfu_yoda!gamble
	\	\	\		     /
	 \	 \	 \__________________
	  \	  \		  \___Simon Fraser University
	   \	   \
	    \	    \___University of British Columbia
	     \
	      \___University of Washington

geb@cadre.UUCP (11/21/87)

I've had this happen too, on the 40MB internal that came with
the Mac II disappears once in a while.  Running the update program
puts it back, but it is annoying.  I have switched the boot-up
to the Jasmine disk because of this, and had no more trouble.

spector@suvax1.UUCP (Mitchell Spector) (11/22/87)

In article <2115@unc.cs.unc.edu>, creech@unc.cs.unc.edu (Jeff Creech) writes:
> In article <1155@saturn.ucsc.edu> fiatlux@ucscc.UCSC.EDU (David Vangerov) writes:
> >... some application... has managed to die and you were forced to reboot.
> >Instead of... a happy mac... you get an icon asking you to insert disk.
> >I don't know how the Mac manages to forget about it's internal hard
> >drive, but it happens (and damn annoying when it does). Anyways,
> 
> I've had the same problem on 4 of our 5 new Mac II's with 80 Meg drives.
> ... 
> Who else is seeing this? Maybe Apple can comment if they've seen this
> problem. I'm carring a utilities disk around in my pocket at all times.
> 
> Jeff Creech
> Macintosh Systems Specialist
> Computer Services
> UNC-CH Dept. of Computer Science

We've seen the same problem on two of our Mac II's.  Both have 2M of RAM,
a 40M internal hard disk drive, and a monochrome monitor.  In both cases,
re-installing the driver solved the problem (without any loss of data).
One incident occurred after running uw, the Unix-window terminal emulator;
I believe the other happened when running one of the public-domain font
editors, but I'm not sure.

I will not run any program which causes random crashes of this nature
again, at least until the cause is explained and I am convinced that
no harm to user data on the hard disk can result.  Perhaps the worst
aspect of this is that it is easy to imagine somebody re-initializing
the hard disk unnecessarily (taking the time to restore from backups
and losing everything created or modified since the last backup).
-- 
Mitchell Spector                                        |"Give me a
Dept. of Computer Science & Software Eng., Seattle Univ.|     ticket to
Path:    ...!uw-beaver!uw-entropy!dataio!suvax1!spector |             Mars!!"
  or:   dataio!suvax1!spector@entropy.ms.washington.edu | -- Zippy the Pinhead

mckenzie@husc2.UUCP (mckenzie) (11/23/87)

In article <1155@saturn.ucsc.edu>
 		fiatlux@ucscc.UCSC.EDU (David Vangerov) writes:

>Someone called it the PRAM. I haven't dared try this with our mac
>II yet, thought it would seem that all you have to do is remove
>the battery for a second and then pop it back in if
>Command-Shift-Option-Whatever doesn't do it for you. Of course
>the battery on a Mac II is a little harder to get to than on a
>standard Mac 512/Plus.

This is somewhat of an understatement - the MacII battery is not only hard
to get at, it is actually soldered to the system board!  Messing with it is
guaranteed to void your warranty, and might ruin your system board to boot.

Opening the control panel while holding down every available modifier key
really does work - I promise.  (See also various messages from Apple staffers
to this effect.)

				David McKenzie
				mckenzie@husc2.UUCP