flowers@CS.UCLA.EDU (11/20/87)
The problem is that if I boot off of a floppy, Suitcase, Pyro,
Findswell (all inits I think) are loaded, but if I copy that exact
system folder to my hard disk, they are not loaded.
They all used to work fine, and this problem started after a bomb and
reboot. If anyone can tell me what would be causing this, I'd be
grateful. Here are the details:
A few days ago I installed Finder 6.0 / System 4.2 / MultiFinder 1.0
on my SE 1meg with hard disk. In addition I've been using Suitcase,
Findswell, and Pyro. All working fine except for the problems others
have noted (e.g. Suitcase-MultiFinder incompatibility). Today I was
trying out an analog clock on the screen that I hadn't tried before.
It told me there wasn't enough memory (I was running Versaterm and
maybe something else like MacWrite to help fill up the memory), but
then a clock started to show on the screen, until everything died.
I tried rebooting the machine with the programmer's button, and reboot
started but failed with ID=02. I tried again and it still failed, so
then I booted off of the floppy version of MultiFinder. That worked,
so I copied the System file over and rebooted. The machine booted but
none of the inits were there (in addion, the Findswell icon that
normally shows up during startup doesn't show up). I tried a number
of different things to attempt to change whatever it was that was
causing inits to work on floppy boot but not hard boot:
- the Suitcase documentation suggests eliminating DAs one by one, but
that didn't help (I'm starting now with a default system).
- made an entire new system folder from floppy (renaming the old one
to something else), added all my own stuff, rebooted. No suitcase....
- recalled something about someone having trouble with Suitcase,
resetting the PRam by special control panel invokation. I tried that,
didn't help...
- made a floppy copy of the Multifinder System Folder, added Suitcase,
Findswell, Pyro, booted off of it, they were all loaded. So then I
renamed (yet another) HD System Folder to something else, and then
copied the exact floppy System Folder to the HD, booted. No Suitcase ...
- made the HD Desktop file visible with MacTools, renamed it to
something else, rebooted. No Suitcase (but it took a while to reboot).
- Set default startup to be Finder instead of MultiFinder, didn't
help.
I'm not sure what else to try to do to uncover and fix the problem, or
what else could be different between the HD and floppy boots, but I'm
new to Macs, so might be overlooking something. I don't want to do a
backup, reinitialize of the disk, and then a restore, because since I
don't know the cause, I might just end up preserving whatever is
causing this problem, but will try that if nothing else works.
thanks for any help,
Margot Flowers Flowers@CS.UCLA.EDU ...!{ucbvax|ihnp4}!ucla-cs!flowersflowers@CS.UCLA.EDU (11/21/87)
In my previous message, I forgot to mention that I also did a disk
verify with MacTools and it thought the disk was ok.
Margot Flowers Flowers@CS.UCLA.EDU ...!{ucbvax|ihnp4}!ucla-cs!flowershammen@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Robert Joseph Hammen) (11/23/87)
In article <9344@shemp.UCLA.EDU> flowers@CS.UCLA.EDU () types: <problems with System & INITs on hard disk> >- made an entire new system folder from floppy (renaming the old one ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >to something else), added all my own stuff, rebooted. No suitcase.... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >- made a floppy copy of the Multifinder System Folder, added Suitcase, >Findswell, Pyro, booted off of it, they were all loaded. So then I >renamed (yet another) HD System Folder to something else, and then ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >copied the exact floppy System Folder to the HD, booted. No Suitcase ... I believe your problem lies with the above - having more than one System file (& folder) on the hard disk. The reason your INITs are probably not getting executed is the fact that they are not in the active ("blessed") System folder. To find out which is the active System folder, boot off the hard disk and drag any folder that has a System file in it to the trash. The Finder won't let you throw away the currently active System. Empty the trash and then copy your INITs into the remaining System folder and they should work. Ordinarily, I would have replied to this message, not posted, but it is an example of a common mistake that many Mac owners make - having multiple System files on a hard disk. This is dangerous and potentially deadly to the hard disk (as I have discovered from the experiences of others). I don't know if this is ever mentioned in the manuals for the Mac, but it should be. Now, what we need is a small PD program that searches an entire hard disk looking for files containing "System" in the name, with type ZSYS and creator MACS... >Margot Flowers Flowers@CS.UCLA.EDU ...!{ucbvax|ihnp4}!ucla-cs!flowers ========================================================================= Robert Hammen Computer Applications, Inc. hammen@csd4.milw.wisc.edu Delphi: HAMMEN GEnie: R.Hammen CI$: 70701,2104
flowers@CS.UCLA.EDU (11/24/87)
In article <3617@uwmcsd1.UUCP> hammen@csd4.milw.wisc.edu.UUCP (Robert Hammen) writes: >In article <9344@shemp.UCLA.EDU> flowers@CS.UCLA.EDU () types: ><problems with System & INITs on hard disk -- can boot from floppy but not hard disk with identical system folder> >I believe your problem lies with the above - having more than one System file >(& folder) on the hard disk. The reason your INITs are probably not getting >executed is the fact that they are not in the active ("blessed") System >folder. To find out which is the active System folder, boot off the hard >disk and drag any folder that has a System file in it to the trash. The Finder >won't let you throw away the currently active System. Empty the trash and then >copy your INITs into the remaining System folder and they should work. About the same time as your message (thanks!) I saw the very informative and useful article "Hard Disk Medic" in the current MacUser which mentioned this, along with many other things to try. In addition to getting rid of system files, I had to trash and make a new copy of my system folder before I could get beyond the ?-in-a-floppy at boot time. >Ordinarily, I would have replied to this message, not posted, but it is an >example of a common mistake that many Mac owners make - having multiple >System files on a hard disk. This is dangerous and potentially deadly to >the hard disk (as I have discovered from the experiences of others). I don't >know if this is ever mentioned in the manuals for the Mac, but it should be. The article was authored by an Apple employee (Bo3b Johnson, "3Remember the 3 is silent"), supposedly based on technical note 134, so it seems like this is now mentioned somewhere (but not where many people will find it). According to Bo3b, there should be only one system _folder_ on the the system. (I actually violated both those rules, since I have a system folder and file buried down deep that didn't conflict with a successful boot, but I plan on renaming then right away.) thanks for the help! >========================================================================= >Robert Hammen Computer Applications, Inc. hammen@csd4.milw.wisc.edu >Delphi: HAMMEN GEnie: R.Hammen CI$: 70701,2104 -- Margot