chris@umbc3.UMD.EDU (Chris Schanzle) (11/16/87)
After talking to my rather uninformed dealer, they told me that the System Update 5.0 (including Multifinder, System 4.2, Finder 6.0 [I think that's all correct]) IS NOT A FREEBEE. Apple, is this correct? Why why why? If you're trying to tell me $50 offsets costs of the manual...distribution costs...and no doubt some for the most uninformed dealers I've ever spoken to, then I guess I'll just have to resort to (I can't believe I'm saying this) PIRATING the system software for my Mac. :-) Ridiculous. __________________ -- ARPA : chris@umbc3.UMD.EDU BITNET : chris@umbc "He was betrayed by the limits of his own potential."
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (11/17/87)
>After talking to my rather uninformed dealer, they told me that the System >Update 5.0 (including Multifinder, System 4.2, Finder 6.0 [I think that's >all correct]) IS NOT A FREEBEE. Um, it's been discussed on this group for weeks. It's been in all the magazines. This has been policy for a good while. Haven't you bee listening? You have a bunch of choices: o spend $49 for the software distribution & manual from apple. o Download it from a timesharing service o get a copy from a friend who did one of the two above, or from a user group like BMUG. o do without. >Apple, is this correct? Why why why? If you're trying to tell me $50 >offsets costs of the manual...distribution costs...and no doubt some for >the most uninformed dealers I've ever spoken to, then I guess I'll just >have to resort to (I can't believe I'm saying this) PIRATING the system >software for my Mac. :-) We've gone through it before. I won't re-iterate it. $50 is cheap for a good manual and four disks (and the associated corporate overhead that goes with them). They are also available through alternative channels cheaper ($8 for the four disks from BMUG, for instance). Considering the hassles I've had (and the ahssles I've heard from others as well) trying to get 'free' upgrades from Apple dealers, I'm THRILLED to see Apple formalizing the distribution a bit. Especially since they didn't cut off the other distribution channels and force folks to spend money. so please quit yelling. you're making a spectacle of yourself... chuq --- Chuq "Fixed in 4.0" Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ
jordan@apple.UUCP (Jordan Mattson) (11/17/87)
Dear Chris - I don't know what the story is about free distribution from dealers, but I do know that Apple is dsitributing the System Software update through electronic distribution (CompuServe, GENIE, Delphi, etc) and user groups with no Apple imposed charge. As to your comment on the manual and disk costs: yes, it does cost about that much to distribute a shrink-wraped package. Packaging and distribution is expensive. Just ask anyone who has been in the software business. -- Jordan Mattson UUCP: ucbvax!mtxinu!apple!jordan Apple Computer, Inc. CSNET: jordan@apple.CSNET Tools & Languages Product Management 20525 Mariani Avenue, MS 27S Cupertino, CA 95014 408-973-4601 "Joy is the serious business of heaven." C.S. Lewis
jwhitnel@csi.UUCP (Jerry Whitnell) (11/17/87)
In article <577@umbc3.UMD.EDU> chris@umbc3.UMD.EDU (Chris Schanzle) writes: > >After talking to my rather uninformed dealer, they told me that the System >Update 5.0 (including Multifinder, System 4.2, Finder 6.0 [I think that's >all correct]) IS NOT A FREEBEE. This shows what happens when you believe your dealer (:-)). You can still get it through the other routes that it was available, including CompuServe (uploaded this weekend), user groups, etc at the usual cost (free to download costs). But you get the manuals, etc. only from your dealer. >ARPA : chris@umbc3.UMD.EDU BITNET : chris@umbc Jerry Whitnell Lizzi Borden took an axe Communication Solutions, Inc. And plunged it deep into the VAX; Don't you envy people who Do all the things You want to do?
simon@alberta.UUCP (Simon Tortike) (11/18/87)
Is the official MultiFinder package of disks and manual supposed to be
backordered for those of us who bought Macs after the big announcements
last August, same as for HyperCard? Or is there some other deal or even
none?
-------------------
W. Simon Tortike
Dept Min, Met & UUCP: {ubc-vision,ihnp4,mnetor}!alberta!simon
Petroleum Engg BITNET: stortike@ualtavm
Univ. of Alberta AGT: (403) 432-3338
Edmonton, AB
Canada T6G 2G6drc@dbase.UUCP (Dennis Cohen) (11/18/87)
In article <577@umbc3.UMD.EDU>, chris@umbc3.UMD.EDU (Chris Schanzle) writes: > > After talking to my rather uninformed dealer, they told me that the System > Update 5.0 (including Multifinder, System 4.2, Finder 6.0 [I think that's > all correct]) IS NOT A FREEBEE. > > Apple, is this correct? Why why why? If you're trying to tell me $50 > offsets costs of the manual...distribution costs...and no doubt some for > the most uninformed dealers I've ever spoken to, then I guess I'll just > have to resort to (I can't believe I'm saying this) PIRATING the system > software for my Mac. :-) > > Ridiculous. I'm not Apple, but there is no need to pirate it; however, if you want the bound documentation, etc. you'll need to pay for it. It is available for download from the major services (Compu$erve and GEnie, at least) according to various announcements which I have seen there, but it is four disks full of stuff, but the documentation. I think your download costs will greatly exceed the $50. Documentation, distribution costs, etc do mount into money. The uninformed dealers are a fact of life for all systems. I thought that some dealers I encountered were incredibly uninformed about the Macs they were carrying until I spoke to them about the ATs they also carried--even worse!!! Pretty soon you will be buying software packages off the shelf with the new System, Finder, MultiFinder, etc on the disk, so why sweat it? Dennis Cohen Ashton-Tate Glendale Development Center dBASE Mac Development Team -------------------------- Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily represent those of any corporate entity with which I am affiliated.
hammen@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Robert Joseph Hammen) (11/18/87)
One of the main advantages of purchasing the new System Software 5.0 release (besides the ones mentioned in Chuq's response) is the printed documentation that comes with it. Apple has, in the past, documented System updates by including documentation on the disk (MacWrite files/TeachText), but it turns out that few people took the time to read them, and some people (including dealers) simply threw the files away (and so consequently some people never got them). The simple fact is that MultiFinder adds a whole new level of complexity to the Mac that is difficult to deal with if you don't have a manual (or Usenet) to refer to. ========================================================================= Robert Hammen Computer Applications, Inc. hammen@csd4.milw.wisc.edu Delphi: HAMMEN GEnie: R.Hammen CI$: 70701,2104
sbb@esquire.UUCP (11/20/87)
In article <6759@apple.UUCP> jordan@apple.UUCP (Jordan Mattson) writes: > I don't know what the story is about free distribution from dealers, >but I do know that Apple is dsitributing the System Software update through >electronic distribution (CompuServe, GENIE, Delphi, etc) and user groups with >no Apple imposed charge. > As to your comment on the manual and disk costs: yes, it does cost >about that much to distribute a shrink-wraped package. Packaging and >distribution is expensive. Just ask anyone who has been in the software >business. But don't ask Central Point Software. They'll tell you it's possible to make a profit selling a program (with docs and shrinkwrap) for well under $30. Also: CE Software, Silicon Beach (in fact, don't most games retail for under $50?), etc., etc. Although I'm glad Apple is finally formalizing their System Software distribution, I think it's dumb that they force you to either copy it from a friend, download it (rather expensive at 1200 baud), or go to a dealer (whose only service is to hand you the package and ring up the sale). Why, oh why, can't Apple sell mail order? What's the big deal? Most of us buy every single piece of Mac software through the mail... except for System software. Anyone care to explain? P.S. Anyone know if you can buy MS-DOS from PC Connection? :-) -- Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart, Davis Polk & Wardwell | remember, we were way ahead of you." ...!seismo!cmcl2!esquire!sbb | - David Letterman
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (11/20/87)
>But don't ask Central Point Software. They'll tell you it's possible to make >a profit selling a program (with docs and shrinkwrap) for well under $30. This is ESPECIALLY true when you charge $20 for the upgrades and issue a new release everyt month. chuq (an ex-copy-ii-mac owner. foo) --- Chuq "Fixed in 4.0" Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ
sysop@stech.UUCP (11/25/87)
in article <577@umbc3.UMD.EDU>, chris@umbc3.UMD.EDU (Chris Schanzle) says: > > > After talking to my rather uninformed dealer, they told me that the System > Update 5.0 (including Multifinder, System 4.2, Finder 6.0 [I think that's > all correct]) IS NOT A FREEBEE. > MultiFinder comes on four disks with a rather hefty manual. If you don't have the manual, you'll find it very hard to use. That's why Apple is charging for it if you get it through a retail outlet. However, MultiFinder IS system software. You can download it from a number of on-line services (I believe that CompuServe has it - somebody correct me if I'm wrong) or you can purchase the disks alone (for $8) from a user's group like BMUG. If I remember correctly, there was a message not too long ago about where to send for the disks. Yes, the dealer is making a small bit of money from selling MultiFinder, but when you consider that all other software upgrades from Apple have been free from dealers, this isn't so very wrong. Jan Harrington, sysop Scholastech Telecommunications ihnp4!husc6!amcad!stech!sysop or allegra!stech!sysop ******************************************************************************** Miscellaneous profundity: "No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai ********************************************************************************