bill@upba.UUCP (11/24/87)
Has anybody had any experience with 4Dimension. It is a database program put out by Apple. A couple of questions for you since I have only worked with the Demonstrator model? 1. Does this program import data from Excel and Micorsoft File? How much work goes into this transfer and does the manual show how this is done? The demonstrator really didn't go into much detail about this step. 2. What problems have you experienced that might cause me not to purchase this software. So far, what I have seen, I am really impressed, but don't want to buy it if I will continue to have problems that are not supported. I plan on using this with a Racet hard drive and about 4 mac's with dove boards. Any suggestions will be appreciated. bill wisell tech support UPBA
dlw@hpsmtc1.HP.COM (David Williams) (11/25/87)
First of all Apple does not put out 4th Dimension, ACIUS does. 4d is a very powerful, very complex applications builder/database. Acius also has a demo version of the program which you can obtain from them for about $20 I believe. While I have not personally imported information from Excel or File, 4D should handle it with no real problems.
dwb@apple.UUCP (David W. Berry) (11/26/87)
In article <54300005@upba> bill@upba.UUCP writes: > Has anybody had any experience with 4Dimension. It is a > database program put out by Apple. A couple of questions > for you since I have only worked with the Demonstrator > model? Actually, it's put out by Acius, another company in Cupertino, currently headed by Guy Kawasaki, who used to an Evangelizer for Apple. Note that this is yet another company besides Apple and Claris, Apple's recent software spinoff. > > 1. Does this program import data from Excel and Micorsoft > File? How much work goes into this transfer and does > the manual show how this is done? The demonstrator > really didn't go into much detail about this step. > > 2. What problems have you experienced that might cause > me not to purchase this software. So far, what I have > seen, I am really impressed, but don't want to buy > it if I will continue to have problems that are not > supported. I plan on using this with a Racet hard > drive and about 4 mac's with dove boards. It's performance is right up there with boats to china, for more information check some recent magazine (unfortunately I don't remember which, probably Nov. MacWorld) which had a review of another database, which I also don't have the name of (gee I certainly am helpful today, aren't I?) but whose major schtick was speed. Other than that, it seems to be incredibly powerful. > > Any suggestions will be appreciated. > > bill wisell > tech support UPBA -- David W. Berry dwb@well.uucp dwb@Delphi dwb@apple.com 973-5168@408.MaBell Disclaimer: Apple doesn't even know I have an opinion and certainly wouldn't want if they did.
sysop@stech.UUCP (Jan Harrington) (12/03/87)
in article <6839@apple.UUCP>, dwb@apple.UUCP (David W. Berry) says: > > In article <54300005@upba> bill@upba.UUCP writes: >> Has anybody had any experience with 4Dimension. It is a >> database program put out by Apple. A couple of questions >> for you since I have only worked with the Demonstrator >> model? > Actually, it's put out by Acius, another company in Cupertino, > currently headed by Guy Kawasaki, who used to an Evangelizer for > Apple. Note that this is yet another company besides Apple and Claris, > Apple's recent software spinoff. >> >> 1. Does this program import data from Excel and Micorsoft >> File? How much work goes into this transfer and does >> the manual show how this is done? The demonstrator >> really didn't go into much detail about this step. >> >> 2. What problems have you experienced that might cause >> me not to purchase this software. So far, what I have >> seen, I am really impressed, but don't want to buy >> it if I will continue to have problems that are not >> supported. I plan on using this with a Racet hard >> drive and about 4 mac's with dove boards. There's a review of 4D in the November MacUser (I'm sure of it, since I wrote it. Note to Chuq: no flames please ...) You're right about the program being very powerful. It can import data in ASCII, SYLK and DIF format, which means you can easily get data from either Excel or Microsoft file. The manual is relatively clear, or at least as clear as 4D manuals get. Personally, I like the documentation, but I'm a programmer ... The problem with 4D is not just speed (if people think 4D is slow, check out dBase Mac!). Because the program in so complex, the learning curve for productive use is very high. There is a _lot_ of documentation, and you've got to wade through most of it to get a good picture of the package. If you're not a programmer, you probably won't be happy with 4D (Guy Kawasaki disagrees, but that's another story). In other words, to tap the power behind 4D, you've got to write code. Support is an interesting issue. Acius is a very small company, and their support staff, while not quite vapor, is limited. There are, however, a number of independent developers working with the package who have a very visible presence on CompuServe in the MacBiz forum. They seem very willing to answer questions. Jan Harrington, sysop Scholastech Telecommunications ihnp4!husc6!amcad!stech!sysop or allegra!stech!sysop ******************************************************************************** Miscellaneous profundity: "No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai ********************************************************************************
klein@gravity.UUCP (12/04/87)
In article <335@stech.UUCP> sysop@stech.UUCP (Jan Harrington) writes: |The manual is relatively clear, or at |least as clear as 4D manuals get. Personally, I like the documentation, but |I'm a programmer ... | |Because the program in so complex, the learning curve for |productive use is very high. There is a _lot_ of documentation, and you've |got to wade through most of it to get a good picture of the package. If |you're not a programmer, you probably won't be happy with 4D (Guy Kawasaki |disagrees, but that's another story). In other words, to tap the power behind |4D, you've got to write code. I have a copy of 4th Dimension, and I personally think the manuals are atrocious. There are four of them: a "Tutorial," which is nothing of the sort, a "User's Guide," a "Programmer's Guide," and a "Command Reference." The only one of the four that has a suitable title is the Command Reference. The other three look more like somebody gathered the rest of the documentation on the floor into three binders at random. I am still trying to figure out how to do the simplest two-table join, and I'm a programmer, too. And then the vocabulary is different from what you'll see in a course on relational data bases; an attempt, I assume, to make the terms seem more "familiar" but to me it comes off as just "different," which is always worse than sticking with the original. Nowhere in the index do you find the word "join," for example. You figure out after a long time that instead you use the word "link." And there aren't any "tables" but "files" instead. And on and on. Now, it appears that 4th Dimension is powerful, but I have a lot of other things to do with my time and the documentation is so poor that I haven't actually gotten to the point where I can put together the simplest data base and know why it does the things it does. Until the documentation is better, I don't consider this a product a non-data base application developer can use. -- Mike Klein klein@Sun.COM Sun Microsystems, Inc. {ucbvax,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!sun!klein Mountain View, CA