udell@Shasta.STANFORD.EDU (Jon Udell) (11/26/87)
I have a few questions concerning networking. We plan on networking two SEs, a Plus, and two 128s (upgraded to Pluses) to a hard disk and a laserwriter. We hope to partition the hard disk somehow (HD Partition or a networking program) so that there is one set of applications for each Mac. We would also like to have globally accessible partitions and password protected partitions if possible. Now for the questions: Is it possible to store multiple systems on the hard disk? I've heard rumors to the contrary. This would be extremely useful given that MultiFinder spools to the system disk. Conversely, spooling appears to be useless (for all but one Mac) without this. Does anyone have any networking program recommendations? A consultant I talked to recommended MacServe over Appleshare, but didn't know anything about TOPS. The ComputerWare salesman I talked to recommended TOPS over MacServe, but gave me promotional literature for TOPS IBM. Assuming that multiple system files can be stored on the hard disk, is there any way to automatically boot the Macs from the hard disk (or automatically switch systems after booting)? Any replies will be appreciated. Jon Udell udell@shasta.UUCP
evan@ndcheg.UUCP (Evan Bauman) (11/30/87)
In article <2280@Shasta.STANFORD.EDU>, udell@Shasta.STANFORD.EDU (Jon Udell) writes: > I have a few questions concerning networking. We plan on networking two > SEs, a Plus, and two 128s (upgraded to Pluses) to a hard disk and a > laserwriter. We hope to partition the hard disk somehow (HD Partition or > a networking program) so that there is one set of applications for each Mac. > We would also like to have globally accessible partitions and password > protected partitions if possible. Now for the questions: > > Is it possible to store multiple systems on the hard disk? I've heard > rumors to the contrary. This would be extremely useful given that > MultiFinder spools to the system disk. Conversely, spooling appears to be > useless (for all but one Mac) without this. First, I'll have to say that having just one disk to serve 5 active Macs might be inadequate. You may want to think of adding another cheap 20MB SCSI disk. It is NOT possible to have all the system folders reside on the one hard disk. Macs without hard disks must be booted from a floppy. > > Does anyone have any networking program recommendations? A consultant I > talked to recommended MacServe over Appleshare, but didn't know anything > about TOPS. The ComputerWare salesman I talked to recommended TOPS over > MacServe, but gave me promotional literature for TOPS IBM. We have a dozen Macs and a laswewriter on appletalk sharing one 30 MB disk using MacServe. Most of the time, only 2 or three Macs are active, so we don't run into problems. MacServe will add the partitions and passwords to your hard disk. MacServe is easy to setup and maintain. Backups are a little difficult though. > > Assuming that multiple system files can be stored on the hard disk, is there > any way to automatically boot the Macs from the hard disk (or automatically > switch systems after booting)? As I said, you cannot boot a Mac over appletalk. There was some discussion here previously about Apple's intentions regarding this. I think the answer was that it has low priority at Apple. They may do it for the Mac ][. You can switch system folders, but we have found this to be wasteful. You need to boot from the floppy, so why not keep using that system? Evan Bauman Univ. of Notre Dame ..!iuvax!ndcheg!evan
kent@decwrl.dec.com (Christopher A. Kent) (12/16/87)
By the way, it *is* possible to put several system files on the same hard disk, at least under TOPS. You still need a floppy to boot "diskless", but once you do, you open the client's system file and switch-launch the finder. After that, you can remove the floppy and run completely off the hard disk. I wouldn't be surprised if you can do this under other networked disk schemes. chris -- Chris Kent Western Research Laboratory Digital Equipment Corporation kent@decwrl.dec.com decwrl!kent (415) 853-6639
ephraim@think.COM (ephraim vishniac) (12/16/87)
In article <186@bacchus.DEC.COM> kent@decwrl.UUCP (Christopher A. Kent) writes: > BTW, it *is* possible to put several system files on the same hard > disk... From the way this discussion has gone, it looks like people are mixing up two different things. When some say that you shouldn't put multiple system files "on the same hard disk," they actually mean that you shouldn't put multiple system files *in the same logical volume*. When other people say there's no problem (as above), they actually mean that there's no problem putting multiple systems on *different partitions* of the same hard disk. Everybody get that? Ephraim Vishniac ephraim@think.com Thinking Machines Corporation / 245 First Street / Cambridge, MA 02142-1214
chow@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Christopher Chow) (12/17/87)
In article <13799@think.UUCP> ephraim@godot.think.com.UUCP (ephraim vishniac) writes: > >From the way this discussion has gone, it looks like people are mixing up >two different things. When some say that you shouldn't put >multiple system files "on the same hard disk," they actually mean that >you shouldn't put multiple system files *in the same logical volume*. >When other people say there's no problem (as above), they actually mean >that there's no problem putting multiple systems on *different >partitions* of the same hard disk. > Okay, but does anyone want to tell me why you can't put multiple system files on the same logical volume? Seems to me that the advice of not having multiple systems is that its redudant and makes it difficult to tell which folder is the real system folder -- but finder 6.0 and up will put a little Mac icon on the current blessed folder so the only consideration would seem to be a waste of space. Of course, there's also the question of why someone would want multiple system folders in a logical volume (other than a temp system/finder combination for complete HD restores or when using the HD as a temp buffer when copying floppies), but that's a different issue. Christopher Chow /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Internet: chow@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (128.84.248.35 or 128.84.253.35) | | Usenet: ...{uw-beaver|ihnp4|decvax|vax135}!cornell!batcomputer!chow | | Bitnet: chow@crnlthry.bitnet | | Phone: 1-607-253-6699, USPS: 7122 N. Campus 7, Ithaca, NY 14853 | | Delphi: chow2 PAN: chow | \---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
robertj@yale-zoo-suned..arpa (Rob Jellinghaus) (12/17/87)
In article <3203@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> chow@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Christopher Chow) writes: >Okay, but does anyone want to tell me why you can't put multiple system >files on the same logical volume? Seems to me that the advice of not >having multiple systems is that its redudant and makes it difficult to tell >which folder is the real system folder -- but finder 6.0 and up will put a >little Mac icon on the current blessed folder so the only consideration >would seem to be a waste of space. Actually, this isn't true. The problem arises when you restart your Mac or run an application in a non-Multifinder environment. The Mac very often becomes confused about which System it should run, and restarts with the wrong one. This is the same phenomenon that happens with multiple floppies--the Mac will start running off the floppy with the current application on it. Unfortu- nately, the Mac's heuristic for determing which system to use fails if there are multiple Systems to choose from. I had many problems with this while trying to install the new System on my II (no, I don't use Installer, and don't flame me!); the computer would restart, come up with the happy mac, then the screen would fizzle and resolve into the disk with the blinking question mark. System 4.2/Finder 6.0 do NOT solve this problem. The only solution I have found to having multiple Systems on the same disk is to rename all but the one you want to run from (by duplicating them and tossing the original). >Christopher Chow >/---------------------------------------------------------------------------\ >| Internet: chow@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (128.84.248.35 or 128.84.253.35) | >| Usenet: ...{uw-beaver|ihnp4|decvax|vax135}!cornell!batcomputer!chow | >| Bitnet: chow@crnlthry.bitnet | >| Phone: 1-607-253-6699, USPS: 7122 N. Campus 7, Ithaca, NY 14853 | >| Delphi: chow2 PAN: chow | >\---------------------------------------------------------------------------/ Rob Jellinghaus | "Lemme graze in your veldt, jellinghaus@yale.edu.UUCP | Lemme trample your albino, ROBERTJ@{yalecs,yalevm}.BITNET | Lemme nibble on your buds, !..!ihnp4!hsi!yale!jellinghaus | I'm your... Love Rhino" -- Bloom County
olson@endor.harvard.edu (Eric K. Olson) (12/18/87)
You can certainly have more than one System File on your hard disk, even
in a single logical partition. You cannot have more than one "Blessed Folder",
but you can have more than one System Folder and switch the blessed one.
This definitely works:
Have two folders, "Sys 1" and "Sys 2", and a third folder, "NonSys". The
inactive system folder should have it's Finder in the "NonSys" folder, so
that it will not accidentally become blessed. To change the blessed folder,
drag the Finder from NonSys into the new blessed folder, the Finder from
the old blessed folder into NonSys, and then go back and drag the System
and Finder _together_ out of and back into the new blessed folder.
A folder is blessed by dragging both System and Finder into it simultaneously,
but only if no blessed folder exists on the volume.
A folder is un-blessed by dragging either the System _or_ the Finder out of it.
-Eric
I am not affiliated.
Eric K. Olson olson@endor.harvard.edu harvard!endor!olson D0760
(Name) (ArpaNet) (UseNet) (AppleLink)