chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (01/16/88)
I just spent 20 minutes with the demo that Ann Arbor Software is giving away at Macworld Expo. It is a mostly functional version of FWP (among the missing things are spellchecking and the thesaurus, along with other features I probably haven't figured out exists yet). Before I even start this, I want to send out a warning to all people who don't own hard disks. Don't even think about it. You folks who complained about HyperCard pushing you to more memory? You folks who bitch because the software doesn't support a 128K Mac and old ROM's? I have seen the future, and it is large. The Fullwrite Pro demo is 753K. The help file is extra. And, as I said, it is missing the spell checker, thesaurus, and associated dictionaries. Under multifinder, the recommended memory size is 1024K. That's a megabyte. If you don't own a hard disk, or you don't have at least a meg, don't even think about it. That said, here's my initial comment on FWP: GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! I should point out that I don't say that lightly, as a long time defender of the faith for Microsoft Word. It is also an initial reaction to a piece of demo software. IF FWP really carries out what I'm seeing in the demo, and it doesn't have killer bugs (and the Ann Arbor folks are very satisfied that it's rock solid) this is going to be a blowout product. The Wordperfect folks will never know what hit them. And Word had better have a rabbit up its hat somewhere.... FWP is very mac-like. Very. From a distance, it might be mistaken for Macwrite, because it has rulers. Among other features, it has a spell checker, a thesarus, an outlining mode (which at first glance isn't as powerful as Acta, but is better integrated and more powerful than Word). They've installed a picture drawing function that is clearly based on (and in some ways, more powerful than) MacDraw. It's object based, and it supports Bezier curves. I would say at first glance the drawing capabilities are about on the par of SuperPaint's draw layer, with some added functionality. Maybe as powerful as SuperPaint, but it's too early to tell. I can't tell you how much fun it is manipulating bezier curves (this is one of the things that gives Adobe Illustrator its power). It supports a good subset of layout functions, primarily oriented towards memos, reports and technical documents. It doesn't look like FWP would handle a publication like OtherRealms or graphically oriented ad copy like PageMaker does, but for the most common "desktop publishing" functions -- corporate work rather than commercial -- it looks great. FWP supports change bars (yeah!). It has a strikeout mode for fonts. It will autosave for you, auto-backup, It will auto-hyphenate. It does char, word, line, paragraph and page counting. It keeps track of time spent in the document, and keystrokes, who's editing it and when -- basically a revision tracking system built in. It supports smart quotes, floating footnotes, sidebars. It kerns. It has glossaries, and style sheets, and a new toy called variables. You can track down things in the document by type, set bookmarks for quick movement through the document, a quick look at the indexing shows it to be sane, and possibly even useful (unlike Word's pseudo indexing). It has footnotes, endnotes, a ToC function, bibliography and an index. All, from the looks of it, separate. There's a good reason why it's 753K. What doesn't it have? Good question. Probably a kitchen sink. It doesn't have equation processing (AAS said to use something like MacEQN, or do it in the draw function. It's an obscure enough function that I'm sure it doesn't make sense putting the effort into doing it for the number of people who care. Table of Contents, on the other hand..... And that they DID do.) My initial thought is that program startup and quitting, as well as document opening and saving, are a bit slow. Not sluggish, but slower than something like Word. At the same time, though, working on a document at full speed you don't notice and problems, so I'm certainly not going to complain about this. That's a quick overview of features. If the program really hits the streets (and as a measure of confidence, AAS had some Mac's sitting there in open, "I dare you to make me crash" demo mode, without protection people in front of them....) and is solid, it's going to be worth the wait. And I think a new era of WP will be starting.... Damn, I wish I had the documentation. I want to know what I'm missing. chuq
moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) (01/18/88)
In article <39102@sun.uucp> chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >I just spent 20 minutes with the demo that Ann Arbor Software is giving away >at Macworld Expo. It is a mostly functional version of FWP (among the >missing things are spellchecking and the thesaurus, along with other >features I probably haven't figured out exists yet). The thesaurus and dictionary that came with the beta (and which are referred to in the documentation) are by Microlytics -- the thesarus IS the excellent Word Finder thesaurus, integrated into the product, and the reference manual states that the spelling checker uses the "SpellFinder technology". I think this is an excellent move -- why re-invent the wheel when someone else has done it so much better? Integrate it into your product, pay the original creator and save yourself time and headaches. Rewards excellence, too. >It supports a good subset of layout functions, primarily oriented towards >memos, reports and technical documents. It doesn't look like FWP would >handle a publication like OtherRealms or graphically oriented ad copy like >PageMaker does, but for the most common "desktop publishing" functions -- >corporate work rather than commercial -- it looks great. Examine the "sidebar" functionality -- I think it could do quite a bit for the more graphically-oriented publications (but I haven't seen OtherRealms on paper, so I can't say for sure). >What doesn't it have? Good question. Probably a kitchen sink. It doesn't >have equation processing (AAS said to use something like MacEQN, or do it >in the draw function. It's an obscure enough function that I'm sure it >doesn't make sense putting the effort into doing it for the number of people >who care. Table of Contents, on the other hand..... And that they DID do.) Yeah, that was the only major thing I noticed it not having -- but Word does such a sloppy job of it, and MacEQN such a good one, that I think that it's not much of a drawback. It also doesn't have the "hidden" text attribute; but this is pointless, since it allows you to hide outline headings (which was the only place I used the hidden attributes in outline mode), and post-it notes (little notes which appear as icons in the icon margin -- double-click them, and they appear in all their glory, but they don't print). The only real inconvenience I can think of will be that, as of the beta version, FullWrite doesn't read Word files (1.05 or 3.x). It does read MacWrite files (Chuq, please test those out with the demo version -- see how well it runs), so you can convert most of your Word files downward. If that is true for the release, it will be a little awkward during the switch from Word to FullWrite -- possibly more than some people who have become accustomed to Word will want to make. Not me, though -- having worked on the FW beta for the weekend (with docs), my opinion of FW is about twice as enthusiastic as Chuq's is. >Damn, I wish I had the documentation. I want to know what I'm missing. Well, let me take a look through the reference manual (flip, flip, flip...): - The ability to "classify" a section of text or an illustration -- and then insert "citations" to that illustration anywhere (a graphic window pops up, you pick the illustration or section of text, and then the darn thing asks you how you would like that citation to look -- via radio buttons, of course! Yow!). - Automatic repagination (but you knew that, didn't you?). And their WYSWIG mode is MUCH easier to use (though the standard mode is very close to WYSWIG). - Any kind of placement (or kerning -- yes, they have that, though just between characters) is done giving you the choice of various measurements -- lines, inches, centimeters, pixels, points, picas. - Auto save options and file compaction (slower save). Smart Quotes option (just like the Smart Quotes INIT, I imagine). - God, is this thing Maccish. (just had to say that) - Can save in "Template" mode -- opening up a Template FullWrite document is like opening up a Word document in Read-Only mode. You can't overwrite it -- PERFECT for letter and article templates. I always forget to use Read-Only mode in Word once a month, and overwrite my template letter with a lot of junk. - Tried the keyboard equivalences? They have ones for the major functions, but any menu item can be pulled down by hitting a two key sequences -- one a numeric one that pulls down the menu (for instance, Clover-1 for the FILE menu (which it pulls down without you ever touching the mouse), and then Clover-n, where n is the nth item on the menu that doesn't already have a key equivalence (since the menu's down, you can see the n listed next to the item). Very logical. Oh, and you can walk down them with the arrow keys, if you find the mouse inconvenient to word processing. - Bookmarks... set one up (a text label), and then you can go to it by selecting it from a selection box. This babe is built for BIG documents. - Gray scale for text -- ANYWHERE! Paragraphs! Drawings! Double Yow! - *ahem* Get ahold of yourself, Meyer. - Want to place a picture in the text? A cinch. Check the SIDEBAR option out -- lets you pop the picture in. Gives you a choice as to how text should wrap around it -- either a lasso (text wraps around the outlines) or a rectangle (a marquee -- text wraps around a square enclosing the graphic). Of course, you can have it draw a border around the marquee, automatically, set the gray scale of the background, etc., etc.... - Dictionary is bigger than Word's -- 100,000 words; and the thesaurus is Word Finder, which says it all (220,000 entries). By the way, for anyone who wants to convert their User Dictionaries over from Word to FullWrite: I looked at the User Dictionaries for both programs. FullWrite's is fairly complicated, but Word's is a bunch of words seperated (I think) by tabs. Probably use DiskTop or ResEdit to change the dicitionaries type to text, read it into FullWrite as a text document, and run the spelling checker on it; insert the words manually into FullWrite's dictionary. If someone can get a format specification for the FullWrite dictionary, it'd be a lead-pipe cinch to convert the things over on Unix. -------------------- Anyway, I can't think of a product that has surpassed my expectations more than FullWrite Professional; I've tested the beta this weekend (not under MultiFinder, though), and no explosions. If Chuq and I were Siskel and Ebert, I guess we'd both be giving this two thumbs up each. I know you're used to seeing ecstatic reviews about new Mac products, but believe me, no product since the Mac was released has excited me more. I spend a lot of time writing, and THIS is what I have been wanting -- this is the word processor I imagined (without detailing the features) when I first saw the Mac and decided to buy it. HyperCard is probably a more interesting/novel/amazing product, but for me, no product will be more useful -- or more used -- than FullWrite Professional. I have, after two days of intense use, no reason to believe there are any serious bugs in it (and, as said elsewhere, many reasons to believe there is not -- AA does not want a repeat of the Word 3.0 disaster). That is, as soon as my release copy gets here (TIM, DID YOU BUY ME A COPY AT EXPO?! I'LL TAKE AN I.O.U. FROM ANN ARBOR! I'LL TAKE SCRIPT! I'LL TAKE IT REFUNDABLE IN CONFEDERATE MONEY!). "Butter becomes weightless?.... Raymond Burr must be in orbit by now." Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer INTERNET: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM Manual UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, allegra, hplsla, lbl-csam}!fluke!moriarty CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind... <*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>
takahash@bnrmtv.UUCP (Alan Takahashi) (01/19/88)
In article <2679@fluke.COM>, moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) writes: > The only real inconvenience I can think of will be that, as of the beta > version, FullWrite doesn't read Word files (1.05 or 3.x). It does read > MacWrite files (Chuq, please test those out with the demo version -- see how > well it runs), so you can convert most of your Word files downward. If that > is true for the release, it will be a little awkward during the switch from > Word to FullWrite -- possibly more than some people who have become > accustomed to Word will want to make. Not me, though -- having worked on > the FW beta for the weekend (with docs), my opinion of FW is about twice as > enthusiastic as Chuq's is. I did talk to a salescritter at the booth, and he said that Word 1.05/3.0? compatibility will NOT come out with this version of FullWrite. The reason? Microsoft hadn't told them about how the Word files are formatted. Should be coming out in the next version, though. BTW, I LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE (*pant pant*) this program!!!!! Another BTW: any comments about WordPerfect's 'betaware'? Nice concept, eh? (Well, I THINK it's WordPerfect. My sales literature is at home, though...) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Alan Takahashi ! hplabs amdahl Bell-Northern Research ! \ / Mountain View, CA ! .....!{-----}!bnrmtv!takahashi ! / \ "When you need to knock on wood is when ! 3comvax ames you realize the world's composed of !----------------------------------- aluminum and vinyl." -- Flugg's Law ! DISCLAIMER: It's all an illusion. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dwb@apple.UUCP (David W. Berry) (01/19/88)
In article <39102@sun.uucp> chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >The Fullwrite Pro demo is 753K. The help file is extra. And, as I said, it >is missing the spell checker, thesaurus, and associated dictionaries. Under >multifinder, the recommended memory size is 1024K. That's a megabyte. And that's a hard limit. FullWrite refuse to run if you set it to run in a smaller partition. -- David W. Berry dwb@well.uucp dwb@Delphi dwb@apple.com 973-5168@408.MaBell Disclaimer: Apple doesn't even know I have an opinion and certainly wouldn't want if they did.
dorner@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (01/20/88)
>>The Fullwrite Pro demo is 753K. The help file is extra. And, as I said, it >>is missing the spell checker, thesaurus, and associated dictionaries. Under >>multifinder, the recommended memory size is 1024K. That's a megabyte. > And that's a hard limit. FullWrite refuse to run if you set it >to run in a smaller partition. Their ad in Mac{User,World} claims it runs on a 512E. Is this a lie? ---- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: dorner@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu UUCP: ihnp4!uiucuxc!dorner IfUMust: (217) 333-3339
csaron@garnet.berkeley.edu (Aron Roberts) (01/20/88)
>In article <39102@sun.uucp> chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >[FullWrite Professional, a new word processing program from Ann Arbor >Softworks] supports a good subset of layout functions, primarily oriented >towards memos, reports and technical documents. [...] for the most common >"desktop publishing" functions -- corporate work rather than >commercial -- it looks great. According to a conversation between an engineer from a large corporate customer (a beta site?) and an member of the development team at Ann Arbor Softworks, overheard during the crush and pandemonium of MacWorld Expo :-), one desktop publishing-like function that FullWrite Professional will NOT easily do is to place a full-width title across a page in the middle of text columns, as in the following illustration: xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx <- Continuation of article from previous page xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx Full-width Title xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx <- New article xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx One can "fake" this effect by using a sidebar to hold the text columns at the top of the page, but then text from the previous page cannot flow into the area occupied by the sidebar. In article <2679@fluke.COM> moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) writes: > >The only real inconvenience I can think of will be that, as of the beta >version, FullWrite doesn't read Word files (1.05 or 3.x). Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, the demonstration version handed out at MacWorld Expo imported <both> MacWrite and Microsoft Word 1.0/1.05 files--in a manner which was approximately as transparent as MS Word's importing of foreign file formats. The Word 3.0/3.01 format is not currently supported. I haven't yet tried (or witnessed) importing of complex, picture-laden MacWrite files or MS Word files with attached style sheets. Although the demo version handed to the curious throngs at the Expo would only save in FullWrite format, the version being shown at the AAS booth had a file formats button in its "Save As ..." dialog box, similar to MS Word's, with five radio buttons for saving to the following file formats: o FullWrite o FullWrite Stationery (user-defined documents which store default formatting information) o MacWrite 4.5 o Text only o Text only with line breaks One important note which has appeared in previous postings, but which bears repeating: Although FullWrite Professional appears at first glance to be an extremely attractive, capable word processor, it is also is a BIG program, requiring a considerable hardware investment. FullWrite Professional runs VERY sluggishly on a 1MB Mac Plus. AAS representatives said that the program takes advantage of available memory and speeds up noticeably with 2MB and more of RAM. And as Chuq mentioned, the demo version of the program itself barely squeezes onto an 800KB floppy disk--even without its associated dictionary, thesaurus, and help files. A hard disk is a necessity, not a luxury, with FullWrite Professional. Aron Roberts Tolman Microcomputer Facility 1535 Tolman Hall, University of California Berkeley, CA 94720 (415) 642-2251 csaron@garnet.Berkeley.EDU CSARON@UCBCMSA.BITNET
lippin@maypo (The Apathist) (01/21/88)
Recently bill@astro.UUCP (William H. Jefferys) said: >Word's implementation of formulas may not be great, but it is a whole >lot better than MacEQN's, expecially for editing. Furthermore, it gives >me the ability to put equations into running text, which MacEQN doesn't. >I would have liked it better had Word's equation facility been compatible >with TeX, but beggars can't be choosers. In any case, equations are >essential to my work, and for this reason I won't be buying FullWrite. At the expo, there were two programs for WYSIWYG typesetting of equations being demoed: "Expressionist" and "MathType." They were fairly similar; each had a much more believable interface than MacEqn, and I think they each had a trimmed-down DA form. One, and perhaps both, could also output TeX. I can't see choosing to use Word's stuff over either of these. Putting equations in running text is a function of the word processor; both Word and FullWrite can, whereeverthe equations come from, and MacWrite can't. --Tom Lippincott ..ucbvax!bosco!lippin "Note that they do not so much fly, as plummet." --Monty Python's Flying Circus
takahash@bnrmtv.UUCP (Alan Takahashi) (01/22/88)
In article <174400096@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu>, dorner@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > > >>The Fullwrite Pro demo is 753K. The help file is extra. And, as I said, it > >>is missing the spell checker, thesaurus, and associated dictionaries. Under > >>multifinder, the recommended memory size is 1024K. That's a megabyte. > > And that's a hard limit. FullWrite refuse to run if you set it > >to run in a smaller partition. > > Their ad in Mac{User,World} claims it runs on a 512E. Is this a lie? I don't know about that claim (never having seen it :-) ), but I DO know that I'm having problems with the demo on my Mac Plus. When bring up FullWrite Demo, I usually get a "You are low on memory" warning. When loading one of the demo files that came on the disk, I sometimes get an "Out of Memory" error. What gives? I am running on a Mac Plus with 1 meg of memory, and System 4.2/Finder 6.0. I am NOT running Multifinder. Do I have to get more memory to run the demo? What about the real package? (And no, I don't have a ton of INITs running on my system). Despite the somewhat grumpy tone of this posting, I do like FullWrite, and look forward to the actual release. Assuming I ever get it running, of course. :-) Comments are invited. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Alan Takahashi ! hplabs amdahl Bell-Northern Research ! \ / Mountain View, CA ! .....!{-----}!bnrmtv!takahashi ! / \ "When you need to knock on wood is when ! 3comvax ames you realize the world's composed of !----------------------------------- aluminum and vinyl." -- Flugg's Law ! DISCLAIMER: It's all an illusion. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FELIX@KL.SRI.COM (Felix Ingrand) (01/23/88)
It is amazing, because one of the Full Write Demo file is a Fairy Tale, and they use "Drop Caps" (like in the good old time, Maurice :-)). One more thing about FW, I do not think it can run on a 512, I have to turn the cache off to start it yesterday on my SE, and I do not think it is a limi- tation of the Demo Version. Anyway, "It is GREAT". Felix
FELIX@KL.SRI.COM (Felix Ingrand) (01/23/88)
>When bring up FullWrite Demo, I usually get a "You are low on memory" >warning. When loading one of the demo files that came on the disk, I >sometimes get an "Out of Memory" error. What gives? > >I am running on a Mac Plus with 1 meg of memory, and System 4.2/Finder 6.0. >I am NOT running Multifinder. Do I have to get more memory to run the >demo? What about the real package? (And no, I don't have a ton of INITs >running on my system). > >Despite the somewhat grumpy tone of this posting, I do like FullWrite, >and look forward to the actual release. Assuming I ever get it running, >of course. :-) > >Comments are invited. TURN YOUR CACHE OFF. At least, it works on my mac, and I have a bunch of INIT (suitcase, pyro, ibeep2, scrapsaver, MClock, quickey, etc...) and CDEV. By the way, you have to turn it off before calling FW. -- Felix Pourquoi tant de haine... EDIKA
phssra@emory.uucp (Scott R. Anderson) (01/25/88)
In article <39102@sun.uucp> chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >What doesn't it have? Good question. Probably a kitchen sink. It doesn't >have equation processing (AAS said to use something like MacEQN, or do it >in the draw function. It's an obscure enough function that I'm sure it >doesn't make sense putting the effort into doing it for the number of people >who care. Well, *I* care, and I'm sure that there is a large group of people, scientists, engineers, and technical writers, who use equations regularly and who also care. I would like a good WYSIWYG word processor that integrates equation processing. If someone does equations, they probably do it a lot, and it is a real hassle bopping back and forth between a program and a DA all of the time. MacEqn is a good program, but it would be nicer if its features were integrated. There is also the problem with in-line equations (which may not be a problem with FullWrite; could someone enlighten me?): in MacWrite you can't put PICTs in-line, so the usefulness of MacEqn is somewhat limited (in-line equations are *very* common). Ann Arbor is obviously trying to give MicroSoft Word a run for the money, but I'm surprised that they would just give in on the technical market, especially if they are including every other feature they can think of. * Scott Robert Anderson * ** gatech!emoryu1!phssra * * * ** phssra@emoryu1.{bitnet,csnet} * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
pollock@usfvax2.UUCP (Wayne Pollock) (01/26/88)
If you're running out of memory, check to see if you have the RAM cache turned
on. (I always forget this!)
Wayne Pollock (The MAD Scientist) pollock@usfvax2.usf.edu.UUCP
Usenet: ...!{ihnp4, cbatt}!codas!usfvax2!pollock
GEnie: W.POLLOCK