kaufman@Shasta.STANFORD.EDU (Marc Kaufman) (01/23/88)
A friend of mine attended an Apple presentation, within the last week, for the purpose of learning about future workstations. The customer was potentially a LARGE user of same. Nonetheless, Apple would not even hint at when A/UX might be available (thus effectively losing the sale). This makes me wonder how real A/UX is, as a product. Previous postings with respect to Toolbox support also make me wonder if improvements to Quickdraw (such as those announced by Andy Herzfeld) will be supported under A/UX. It would be a shame if the OS development diverged to the point that you could have good tools, or speed, take your pick. Marc Kaufman (kaufman@Shasta.stanford.edu)
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (01/24/88)
>This makes me wonder how real A/UX is, as a product.
I would say it is more real than you might think. Apple doesn't talk about
non-announced products. A/UX is still officially unannounced. Hence they
don't talk about it. With all the furor about vaporware, this policy makes
sense with me.
I'd bet, however, based on my talking to various folks who have poked their
fingers at something that might be called A/UX sometime in the future, that
it might well be announced sooner than you think, and once it is announced,
it'll probably show up shelves faster than you'd be willing to believe. This
is all idle speculation, you understand. I know nothing. Honest.
chuq
Chuq "Fixed in 4.0" Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ
What do you mean 'You don't really want to hurt her?'
I'm a Super-Villain! That's my Schtick!phd@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU (Paul Dietz) (01/25/88)
In article <39806@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >>This makes me wonder how real A/UX is, as a product. > >I would say it is more real than you might think. Apple doesn't talk about >non-announced products. A/UX is still officially unannounced. Hmmm. I was in a bookstore last week and noticed that there is a chpater on A/UX in Apple's new introductory technical manual for the Mac line. What's the deal? Paul H. Dietz ____ ____ Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering / oo \ <_<\\\ Carnegie Mellon University /| \/ |\ \\ \\ -------------------------------------------- | | ( ) | | | ||\\ "If God had meant for penguins to fly, -->--<-- / / |\\\ / he would have given them wings." _________^__^_________/ / / \\\\-
kaufman@Shasta.STANFORD.EDU (Marc Kaufman) (01/25/88)
In article <39806@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: ->This makes me wonder how real A/UX is, as a product. -I would say it is more real than you might think. Apple doesn't talk about -non-announced products. A/UX is still officially unannounced. Hence they -don't talk about it. With all the furor about vaporware, this policy makes -sense with me. I believe A/UX is real... I am not as convinced about it being a PRODUCT. This was a BIG customer. Even IBM leaks hints when big bux are involved. -I'd bet, however, based on my talking to various folks who have poked their -fingers at something that might be called A/UX sometime in the future, that -it might well be announced sooner than you think, and once it is announced, -it'll probably show up shelves faster than you'd be willing to believe. Sort of like FullWrite Professional... -... This -is all idle speculation, you understand. I know nothing. Honest. Right. >Chuq "Fixed in 4.0" Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Well, all is not lost, they will be looking at SUN workstations next. I really want to see A/UX as a product. I am trying to defer buying a new Mac until it is out. This is not the first 'announcement' that has turned to vapor (how about the 68030 product Scully said would be out the first part of '88, or was that '89). I suspect that if I really need UNIX I will have to go with SUN or (gag) a 386 system. Marc Kaufman (kaufman@Shasta.stanford.edu)
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (01/26/88)
>I believe A/UX is real... I am not as convinced about it being a PRODUCT. >This was a BIG customer. Even IBM leaks hints when big bux are involved. But not in a public forum, as you said this was. Did this company go back to Apple privately for a futures meeting? Were they willing to sign a non-disclosure? If they take public pronouncements as the only pronouncements, they're not paying enough attention. If they are a big company, any firm would be willing to clue them in, if they're willing to protect the information. >I really want to see A/UX as a product. I am trying to defer buying a >new Mac until it is out. This is not the first 'announcement' that >has turned to vapor (how about the 68030 product Scully said would be >out the first part of '88, or was that '89). I suspect that if I really >need UNIX I will have to go with SUN or (gag) a 386 system. Um, the reports I read have all said Sculley is saying there won't be a 68030 in '88. Are you reading the same reports I am? chuq Chuq "Fixed in 4.0" Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ What do you mean 'You don't really want to hurt her?' I'm a Super-Villain! That's my Schtick!
twakeman@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Teriann Wakeman) (01/26/88)
Just as an asside, I have read in two periodicals (MacWeek & MacToday, I believe) where both sources stated that A/UX will be introduced during a major UNIX conference on Feb 9. Its my understanding that its ready to go & they are waiting for a way to introduce it to maximize news & user exposure. Time will say, but don't give up before the ninth TeriAnn
kaufman@Shasta.STANFORD.EDU (Marc Kaufman) (01/26/88)
In article <39849@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >>This was a BIG customer. Even IBM leaks hints when big bux are involved. >But not in a public forum, as you said this was. Did this company go back to >Apple privately for a futures meeting? Were they willing to sign a >non-disclosure? No, it was not a public meeting. It was a sales demo/meeting put on specifically for the sake of this one customer. I.e.: they were trying to sell this customer Macs, and the customer had previously informed Apple that UNIX and multitasking were required. >Um, the reports I read have all said Sculley is saying there won't be a >68030 in '88. Are you reading the same reports I am? Well, earlier reports said '88. The latest reports say 'sometime'. Gee, Chuq, you sound like an Apple Thought-policeman. You will notice that LAST year, we were hearing that A/UX would be out in December, then January, then February, now I hear that it will be shown at Uniforum (but I did not hear that it would be released, then). My reading (between the lines), based on reports in this newsgroup, is that Apple is probably having more difficulty with Toolbox compatibility than they expected. It is an ambitious product, and given that A/UX diverged from the Finder/Multifinder/Toolbox system some time ago, I can imagine the difficulty of developing a new system that has to be compatible with a moving target. No information has been passed to developers (us ordinary developers, that is) to tell us how to be 'A/UX friendly', except for 'keep off the high bits'. Unless Apple believes that all interesting applications have been seeded, (that can't be true, MY applications development wasn't seeded :-) ), it will take some time to bring up a non-trivial suite of user applications that would justify ordinary customers purchasing the system. Shall we start a pool? Marc Kaufman (kaufman@Shasta.stanford.edu)
earleh@eleazar.Dartmouth.EDU (Earle R. Horton) (01/27/88)
In article <2429@Shasta.STANFORD.EDU>, kaufman@Shasta.STANFORD.EDU (Marc Kaufman) writes: > In article <39806@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: > ->This makes me wonder how real A/UX is, as a product. ... ... ... > out the first part of '88, or was that '89). I suspect that if I really > need UNIX I will have to go with SUN or (gag) a 386 system. I have been told that A/UX "will not be ready until February." No year was specified. If you "really" want a nice UNIX box, how about an IBM RT with 4.3 BSD? I don't have any idea how you would get one or what it would cost, since I just program the things. I do know, however, that it is a "real" product. If you want to get a UNIX box and have it do something, get a tested product. (It doesn't have to be IBM, just something which has been in use long enough for all the major bugs to have been eliminated.) It's like automobiles: you're completely NUTS if you buy in the first model year. That's why I wouldn't consider purchasing A/UX until at least six months after the release date. Of course, SOMEBODY has to test it. If that somebody is you, let me know how it works. -- ********************************************************************* *Earle R. Horton, H.B. 8000, Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH 03755 * *********************************************************************
jk@apple.UUCP (John Kullmann) (02/06/88)
> It's like automobiles: > you're completely NUTS if you buy in the first model year. That's why I > wouldn't consider purchasing A/UX until at least six months after the > release date. > > Of course, SOMEBODY has to test it. If that somebody is you, let me know > how it works. > > -- > ********************************************************************* > *Earle R. Horton, H.B. 8000, Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH 03755 * > ********************************************************************* One of the reasons A/UX is coming out late is the extensive QA it has undergone. Keep your IBM RT. Of all the UN*X systems I've seen or used or produced during the last 7 years, A/UX will, by far, be the most full featured and stable on the first release of any of them. The more people that follow Earle's advice, the better, as it just leaves more A/UX systems "..for the rest of us".
elwell@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Clayton Elwell) (02/09/88)
jk@apple.UUCP (John Kullmann) writes:
One of the reasons A/UX is coming out late is the extensive QA it
has undergone. Keep your IBM RT. Of all the UN*X systems I've seen
or used or produced during the last 7 years, A/UX will, by far, be
the most full featured and stable on the first release of any of them.
The more people that follow Earle's advice, the better, as it just leaves
more A/UX systems "..for the rest of us".
I'd like to offer confirmation of this from outside Apple. I've used
a lot of UNIX ports on a lot of machines, and so far A/UX is the first
one I've seen that I would be willing to see go into a non-technical
market. This includes SunOS, which is nice, but if a beta of A/UX was
as stable as version 3.mumble of SunOS, Apple's doing something right.
Not only has it impressed me as being an unusually solid and well
thought out port of UNIX, Apple is adding in a lot of added value as
well. The A/UX toolbox is as nice a UNIX graphics environment as
you'll find on a UNIX box (and yes, X does run on it, if you need
RasterOp on wheels). The system administration utilities, such as the
AppleShare-style user maintenance program, the Standalone Shell,
Eschatology, etc. are worth their weight in gold from what I've seen
(no arguments about how much software weighs, please :-)).
I do a lot of work with UNIX on a wide variety of machines, and given
a choice of what I wanted on my desk, I chose a Mac II running A/UX.
It's a very good way to do UNIX.
--
Clayton M. Elwell
UUCP: ...!cbosgd!cis.ohio-state.edu!elwell
ARPA: elwell@ohio-state.arpa (if you feel lucky...)