ws0n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Walter Ray Smith) (02/05/88)
After playing with the "don't panic" prerelease release of FullWrite,
which finally arrived on the second attempt at shipping, I have
conflicting impressions.
The overall concept is very well done, with good abstractions (Notes,
Sidebars, Styles, Classifications, Rulers). The icon bar is great,
although distinguishing the type of a 5x5 icon requires more practice
than I have. All the different ways of moving around the document
will be useful--browsing, bookmarks, and "jumping" (which is
essentially Emacs incremental search, or Raskin's "leaping"). The
bibliography, index, and table of contents are done well. I think
the design of this program is generally good.
But there are some severe deficiencies with the implementation I got
in the mail. I hope all these things will be resolved before
release. By the way, if any of these problems are actually
nonexistent, please let me know what I should be doing.
You can't set the height of a sidebar attached to text without typing
a number into a dialog box. Why is it necessary for me to figure out
by trial and error (or by holding a ruler up to the screen) how many
inches high my figure or table is? Admittedly, you can graphically
set the size of a page-specific sidebar, but that's just a slightly
easier form of trial and error. I would like an "automatic" setting
for height and width.
While text does flow nicely around sidebars as advertised, it is
impossible to make text *NOT* flow nicely around sidebars. You can't
place a 2x2 figure at the top of a page with no text on either side
unless you type a bunch of blank lines next to it, which defeats the
purpose of a page-specific sidebar.
Line heights keep changing at random when I move the insertion point.
Just clicking the mouse in the text causes nearby lines to move up
and down, apparently at random. I can only get them back the way I
want by randomly clicking around, trying to tickle the bug again, and
this usually makes some other line change. Sometimes whole blank
lines appear and disappear. This is especially a problem in
sidebars, since the size is fixed, and when a blank line appears at
the top, the last line falls off the bottom and vanishes.
The *only* place you can set paragraph spacing is in the Document
Base Style. It is therefore *global*. You can pick exactly one
paragraph spacing for everything in the document. Needless to say,
it practically always has to be zero, eliminating the paragraph
spacing feature.
As everyone knows, the thing is slooooooooow. But that's strictly an
implementation issue.
That's all I can think of right now, but I'll be sure to let everyone
know if something else shows up. I hope AAS is out there somewhere.
- Walt
--
Walter Smith, CS graduate student, Carnegie-Mellon University
uucp: ...!seismo!cmucspt!wrs ? ARPA: ws0n@andrew.cmu.edu
usps: 5706 Darlington Rd.; Pittsburgh, PA 15217moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) (02/09/88)
In article <YW2H0fy00Xo2s=Y0GK@andrew.cmu.edu> ws0n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Walter Ray Smith) writes: >While text does flow nicely around sidebars as advertised, it is >impossible to make text *NOT* flow nicely around sidebars. You can't >place a 2x2 figure at the top of a page with no text on either side >unless you type a bunch of blank lines next to it, which defeats the >purpose of a page-specific sidebar. Simple -- make the floating sidebar the width of the page, and place the graphic in the middle. As to other complaints: I also wish they had the ability to graphically size the floating sidebars, but have found that it can be quickly done by looking at the graphic in the sidebar or draw window and glancing at the ruler -- cuts down on the trial and error a good deal. In my work, an automatic setting wouldn't be any faster than non-automatic -- I usually want some extra white space on one side of the other. The global paragraph spacing is awkward, and I really hope they have that in the Custom Style box in the very near future. "Victory or defeat." --Motto of the 82th Light Horse Marines (the "Floating Parrots") Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer INTERNET: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM Manual UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, allegra, hplsla, lbl-csam}!fluke!moriarty CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind... <*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>
ws0n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Walter Ray Smith) (02/14/88)
Me: You can't place a figure at the top of a page with no text on
either side unless you type a bunch of blank lines next to it.
Moriarty: Simple -- make the floating sidebar the width of the page,
and place the graphic in the middle.
Ah! That's what I *AM* doing. The sidebar is as wide as it can be.
But blank lines are of zero width, so they fit next to the sidebar
anyway! I want some space between the bottom of the figure and the
heading below it, but I can't put in any blank spaces there, because
they float up next to the sidebar.
This is a hack, anyway, since I want a frame around my 2x2 figure,
and needless to say, I only want a 2x2 frame... I guess I could put
a framed sidebar inside an unframed one to get the effect. This is
starting to remind me of TeX.
The problem really is the blank spaces floating into the zero-width
space next to the sidebar. They shouldn't fit there, and it looks
really flaky and unintuitive when they do.
--
Walter Smith, CS graduate student, Carnegie-Mellon University
uucp: ...!seismo!cmucspt!wrs ? ARPA: wrs@f.gp.cs.cmu.edu
usps: 5706 Darlington Rd.; Pittsburgh, PA 15217jasst3@cisunx.UUCP (Jeffrey A. Sullivan) (02/14/88)
I thought that FW Pro Could run on a 1M Mac II? A friend of mine got his Pre-rel version, but when he tries to boot it up from HD on a Mac II, he gets to the opening screen, and then the program says that there is "not enough memory to perform this operation" which I assume is the opening of a blank window. When he tried to open a new file or an old file, he got the same message. What gives? Can you run FWP oin a 1M Mac II? Mac II, Internal HD, Color (256K) card, monitor. -- .......................................................................... Jeff Sullivan University of Pittsburgh jas@dsl.cadre.pittsburgh.edu Intelligent Systems Studies Program jasper@PittVMS (BITNET) Graduate Student
sysop@stech.UUCP (Jan Harrington) (02/15/88)
in article <6933@cisunx.UUCP>, jasst3@cisunx.UUCP (Jeffrey A. Sullivan) says: > > I thought that FW Pro Could run on a 1M Mac II? A friend of mine got his > Pre-rel version, but when he tries to boot it up from HD on a Mac II, he > gets to the opening screen, and then the program says that there is "not > > enough memory to perform this operation" which I assume is the opening of > a blank window. When he tried to open a new file or an old file, he got > the same message. What gives? Can you run FWP oin a 1M Mac II? > Question: is he running multi-finder? FW will not run on any 1 meg machine along with multi-finder; you need at least 2 meg. Another question: what other RAM resident things are in use? Is a debugger loaded? Is an auto-black program loaded? FW is a _very_ tight fit in 1 meg, so anything else that uses RAM may make it unable to run. Jan Harrington, sysop Scholastech Telecommunications ihnp4!husc6!amcad!stech!sysop or allegra!stech!sysop ******************************************************************************** Miscellaneous profundity: "No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai ********************************************************************************
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (02/15/88)
>I thought that FW Pro Could run on a 1M Mac II? A friend of mine got his >Mac II, Internal HD, Color (256K) card, monitor. color? Try running in two bit mode. Color takes up more memory, which is probably getting you in trouble. Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ What do you mean 'You don't really want to hurt her?' I'm a Super-Villain! That's my Schtick!
leonardr@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu (02/16/88)
jasst3@cisunx.UUCP(Jeff Sullivan) writes in comp.sys.mac >I thought that FW Pro Could run on a 1M Mac II? A friend of mine got his >Pre-rel version, but when he tries to boot it up from HD on a Mac II, he >gets to the opening screen, and then the program says that there is "not > >enough memory to perform this operation" which I assume is the opening of >a blank window. When he tried to open a new file or an old file, he got >the same message. What gives? Can you run FWP oin a 1M Mac II? > >Mac II, Internal HD, Color (256K) card, monitor. The problem is not the Mac ][ part, but the 1Meg part. FWP is very memory sensitive and needs as much memory as possible. I would check the size of your RAM cache as well as any other INITS that might be taking up RAM that FWP would like to have all to itself. +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ + + Any thing I say may be taken as + + Leonard Rosenthol + fact, then again you might decide+ + President, LazerWare, inc. + that it really isn't, so you + + + never know, do you?? + + leonardr@uxe.cso.uiuc.edu + + + GEnie: MACgician + + + Delphi: MACgician + + + + + +---------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
jasst3@cisunx.UUCP (Jeffrey A. Sullivan) (02/16/88)
In article <41898@sun.uucp>, chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: > >I thought that FW Pro Could run on a 1M Mac II? A friend of mine got his > > >Mac II, Internal HD, Color (256K) card, monitor. > > color? Try running in two bit mode. Color takes up more memory, which is > probably getting you in trouble. > Does using color really use more RAM? I though t all of the color info was stored on the video card, which has 256K RAM, yes? This is an interesting idea which I poo-poo'd because of the above thought. -- .......................................................................... Jeff Sullivan University of Pittsburgh jas@dsl.cadre.pittsburgh.edu Intelligent Systems Studies Program jasper@PittVMS (BITNET) Graduate Student
dlt@csuna.UUCP (Dave Thompson) (02/16/88)
In article <6933@cisunx.UUCP> jasst3@cisunx.UUCP (Jeffrey A. Sullivan) writes: >I thought that FW Pro Could run on a 1M Mac II? A friend of mine got his >Pre-rel version, but when he tries to boot it up from HD on a Mac II, he >gets to the opening screen, and then the program says that there is "not >enough memory to perform this operation" which I assume is the opening of >a blank window. When he tried to open a new file or an old file, he got >the same message. What gives? Can you run FWP oin a 1M Mac II? I notice that when running FWP the about the finder dialog box shows it as eating up 1mb, System+Finder taking up about another 1/2 mb. So that may be part of the problem. -- Except that yesterday, when I went to print something on the laserwriter (connected to a 1mb SE) it worked just fine (albeit S L O W). Is there possibly something else in memory? -- Dave Thompson uucp: {ihnp4|hplabs|psivax}!csun!dlt CSUN Computer Center phone: (818) 885-2790 18111 Nordhoff Street, Northridge, CA 91330
drc@dbase.UUCP (Dennis Cohen) (02/17/88)
Tell your friend to turn off his RAM Cache and it will be okay. FWP will run on a 1MB Plus, SE, or II so long as it has the full meg to work with. Dennis Cohen Ashton-Tate Glendale Development Center dBASE Mac Development Team
FELIX@KL.SRI.COM (Felix Ingrand) (02/17/88)
Turn the cache OFF... Felix
geb@cadre.dsl.PITTSBURGH.EDU (Gordon E. Banks) (02/18/88)
>In article <6933@cisunx.UUCP> jasst3@cisunx.UUCP (Jeffrey A. Sullivan) writes: >>I thought that FW Pro Could run on a 1M Mac II? A friend of mine got his You have to strip all the inits out of the Mac II system folder to run FW pro on a Mac II. For me, it ain't worth it. So I'll wait until my SIMMs come.