wmbabineau@water.waterloo.edu (W. Michael Babineau) (02/02/88)
I am considering the purchase of a 20MEG hard disk for my MAC +. A local dealer has a good bargain on General Computer Hyperdrives. I have however, been getting a lot of bad vibes about Hyperdrives and GC in general. I have seen comments in MACWORLD and have heard by word of mouth that I should consider buying a different drive from a different company. The dealer claims to have sold "tons of these drives" and has yet to have anyone complain. I would appreciate any comments from Hyperdrive owners or anyone who has had any dealings with GC. Thanks in advance...
seth@CS.UCLA.EDU (02/03/88)
In article <1395@water.waterloo.edu> wmbabineau@water.waterloo.edu (W. Michael Babineau) writes: > >I am considering the purchase of a 20MEG hard disk for my MAC +. >A local dealer has a good bargain on General Computer Hyperdrives. >I have however, been getting a lot of bad vibes about Hyperdrives and >GC in general. I have seen comments in MACWORLD and have heard by word >of mouth that I should consider buying a different drive from a different >company. The dealer claims to have sold "tons of these drives" and has >yet to have anyone complain. > >I would appreciate any comments from Hyperdrive owners or anyone who has >had any dealings with GC. > >Thanks in advance... DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BUY A HYPERDRIVE! That may seem a bit severe but you will be buying a product which is highly failure prone from a company which has negative customer support. I have a long list of gripes with GCC, the most recent occurred when I called to report a bug in their software and was told that there was no bug and that I was wrong. Needless to say the error is reproducible and if the idiot at the other end of the phone knew anything about the product he would have understood the problem. Anyway, stay away. Seth Goldman ARPA: seth@CS.UCLA.EDU UUCP: ...!{ihnp4,cepu,trwspp,sdcrdcf,ucbvax}!ucla-cs!seth USMail: A.I. Lab, 3531 Boelter Hall, UCLA, Los Angeles, CA 90024 MaBell: (213) 825-5199
twakeman@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Teriann Wakeman) (02/03/88)
I have a Hyperdrive 20 in my work mac. It is a 512KE. I ordered it in the
days before the Mac+ and SCSI ports. They had a reliability problem
for the first few months they were out, but GC got it fixed and it seems
to be reliable. Mine is in operation all day 5 days per week for two years
including some car trips. At the time a Hyperdrive was the best thing around.
Now, for the pluses & minuses
+ its internal, so it goes where the Mac goes with no extra bulk (but with
extra weight.
+ For a non-SCSI drive it is fast. It will run circles around the old
parallel port Apple hard drive. But it is a bit slower then a SCSI
drive.
+ It comes with partitions, security and backup software as well as a
laserwriter printer spooler.
- Since the drive is discontinued, there may not be software updates to
enhance compatability with new Apple system software.
- Part of the reason that it is fast is that it uses part of your RAM.
Applications that require a full 512K to run may not load in a 512K
machine. You may run into similar problems with a 1Meg machine and
some of the new RAM hungry applications.
+ It has its own power supply.
+ It comes with an internal fan & the whole Mac runs cooler.
- It takes up space and some RAM or other upgrades may not fit.
Bottom line - My advice would be, if it is significantly cheaper then a
Jasmine 20 + SCSI port adapter and you do not need to run RAM hungry
applications off the hard drive ( If you boot from a floppy and work from
it the Hyperdrive is not engaged and you have your full 512K [assunming
thats what you are running]and can run applications that require the full
512K) go ahead & get the Hyperdrive. If the cost is close or higher to a
Jasmine 20 + SCSI adapter get a SCSI drive instead.
TeriAnn
Hewlett-Packard Corp. Qualitychuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (02/03/88)
>>The dealer claims to have sold "tons of these drives" and has >>yet to have anyone complain. I'd find a new dealer. Fast. I'd doubt he bothers to listen to his customers. >>I would appreciate any comments from Hyperdrive owners or anyone who has >>had any dealings with GC. >DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BUY A HYPERDRIVE! I'm not a HyperDrive owner, but I'd like to mention that when I was at MacExpo, just about every time I walked by the GCC booth, someone was in there complaining. This was the only booth where I consistently saw people (existing customers) not only upset, but at times yelling. This happened at least four times over two days, and it was never the same set of customers twice. The one time I stopped to watch to watch the sideshow, the person at the booth did a couple of really nasty things. First, when someone asked for the manager of the booth, the guy was told there wasn't one, and there was nobody for him to talk to. Second, when the guy decided to tell the booth lackey what he thought, the booth lackey walked off. Simply shined on this customer and went elsewhere. This, rather understandably so, pissed the guy off even more. The final resolution of this case was that a person who worked for the company that makes GCC's disk drives gave the guy the name of the person at GCC to call. Not someone from GCC itself, they were all at the other side of the booth telling people to ignore the idiot yelling in the corner. It was one of their vendors calming him down and giving him the information he wanted. This sucks, to say the least. The GCC folks were only interested in talking to prospective customers, and were not only unhelpful to existing folks,were downright rude, unprofessional, and in one instance abusive. If this is any indication of what the company is like, I'd sell my Mac before buying their stuff. The only feeling anyone watching this could come away from is that the only thing GCC cares about is getting your money -- once they have it, your on your own. And, for the record, it seems that their stuff breaks with every new release of Apple's software. GCC was the first company with a mac hard drive, and the last one to support HFS. You still can't run Multifinder on their earlier stuff, because they haven't ported it in. As a comparison, my ancient, cranky, Paradise 10 serial port runs Finder 6.0 and Multifinder just fine, thank you very much. And it ran a LOT less than buying a GCC product would have. The difference? it is slower, but it works. If I were you, I'd buy anything else. And I'd find a dealer that tells you truths, not what it takes to make a sale. Dealers love GCC. High profit margins for everyone. Except for the customer. chuq Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ What do you mean 'You don't really want to hurt her?' I'm a Super-Villain! That's my Schtick!
egg@ihlpa.ATT.COM (Edwin G. Green) (02/03/88)
In article <1395@water.waterloo.edu> wmbabineau@water.waterloo.edu (W. Michael Babineau) writes: >I would appreciate any comments from Hyperdrive owners or anyone who has >had any dealings with GC. I have an HD20 that I have used with a 512k. I had no problems with it (for three years) until I upgraded to a plus. Then my fan went out (maybe a coincidence). Now if I turn the power off on my Mac, part of my system/finder gets trashed when I power up. I don't think that I would buy another. Almost forgot, GC has to customize the system software. Consequently, I am always operating with old system software. -- Edwin G. Green AT&T Bell Laboratories Naperville, Illinois, USA IHP 1F-550 312-416-7187 UUCP: ihnp4!ihlpa!egg
rs4u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Richard Siegel) (02/03/88)
DON'T DO IT!!!!! Example: a couple of years ago, when I started at NASA/LaRC, we had about a dozen Mac 512K machines, with HyperDrive 10's in them. We had an 80 percent failure rate. The HyperDrive system software is hacked. Badly. Whenever a revision to the Apple system software comes out, the HyperDrive software breaks, usually in a way that requires the hard disk to be reformatted. You can spend the same money on a good external SCSI drive for the Mac Plus (I use a Data Frame XP20) and get a faster, safer, and more reliable disk drive. --Rich
twakeman@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Teriann Wakeman) (02/04/88)
facinating.... I didn't bother stopping by the GC booth at Macworld, but my personal experiance with the company was quite different. I purchased (actually my company purchased for my use) one of the early Hyperdrive 20s. It died at about six months of age (was i happy I did regular backups!) and required a new drive. I was most upset and sent GC a letter telling them what I thought of a product that dies an early death and a company that has a short warrentee. A couple of weeks later, I received a call from a GC rep saying that he was told of my dissatisfaction. He told me that GC had reliability problems with the Hyperdrive 20 but had corrected them. And that they would send me a free 2 year free service contract, which showed up in the mail a couple of days later. Perhaps I just happened to have my letter read by the only conscientious rep in GC???? I hadn't realized that my recomending the purchase of a GC product would produce such strong condemnation of the company. Oh well.... TeriAnn
jwhitnel@csi.UUCP (Jerry Whitnell) (02/05/88)
In article <40838@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: | |>DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BUY A HYPERDRIVE! |... | |This sucks, to say the least. The GCC folks were only interested in talking |to prospective customers, and were not only unhelpful to existing folks,were |downright rude, unprofessional, and in one instance abusive. If this is any |indication of what the company is like, I'd sell my Mac before buying their |stuff. The only feeling anyone watching this could come away from is that |the only thing GCC cares about is getting your money -- once they have it, |your on your own. | |And, for the record, it seems that their stuff breaks with every new release |of Apple's software. GCC was the first company with a mac hard drive, and |the last one to support HFS. You still can't run Multifinder on their |earlier stuff, because they haven't ported it in. As a comparison, my |ancient, cranky, Paradise 10 serial port runs Finder 6.0 and Multifinder |just fine, thank you very much. And it ran a LOT less than buying a GCC |product would have. The difference? it is slower, but it works. | |If I were you, I'd buy anything else. And I'd find a dealer that tells you |truths, not what it takes to make a sale. Dealers love GCC. High profit |margins for everyone. Except for the customer. I'll second Chuq's opinions about both GCC and Paradise. GCC is one of the two companies who's products I'll never buy (Microsoft is the other). I've heard too many people complain about both the support and the quality of the products they deliver to ever consider taking a chance with them. As far as the Pardise 10 is concerned, I don't know how their support stacks up because I've never had to call them. The drive just works (and works and ...). The only reason it isn't in use now is that I havn't figured out how to hook it up to my new Mac II (alright, so the DataFrame XP 40 has a little something to do with it :-). It's too bad GCC is still in bussiness screwing Mac users and Paradise, while still in business, isn't deliviering more high-quality products to Mac users (they went back to the IBM PC market :-(). |chuq Jerry Whitnell Been through Hell? Communication Solutions, Inc. What did you bring back for me? - A. Brilliant
olson@endor.harvard.edu (Eric K. Olson) (02/05/88)
Funny thing, GCC used to be on the net. I wonder if they can see all this and don't think they need to defend themselves, or if they don't post official positions, or if they don't read news anymore... -Eric Eric K. Olson olson@endor.harvard.edu harvard!endor!olson D0760 (Name) (ArpaNet) (UseNet) (AppleLink)
ephraim@think.COM (ephraim vishniac) (02/05/88)
In article <3992@husc6.harvard.edu> olson@endor.UUCP (Eric K. Olson) writes: >Funny thing, GCC used to be on the net. I wonder if they can see all this >and don't think they need to defend themselves, or if they don't post >official positions, or if they don't read news anymore... >Eric K. Olson olson@endor.harvard.edu harvard!endor!olson D0760 > (Name) (ArpaNet) (UseNet) (AppleLink) I haven't seen GCC on the net since about the time they moved from Cambridge to Waltham. I suspect internal conniptions in the company, because they've also been using some rather unusual recruiting measures: 1. I got a direct mail solicitation from them to call/write/send a resume. The cover letter spoke in glowing terms of how I'd find it just as exciting as MIT. A friend of mine received the same packet, but it said BU in his copy. I don't know how many schools they covered. 2. I got a personal phone call from a fellow who claimed to be one of the company officers. (I've forgotten his name.) I've never heard of a company where the officers spend their evenings making "cold" recruiting calls. I did send a resume in response to this tactic, but it took them over a month to get back to me and I'd already started at Thinking Machines by then. Draw your own conclusions. Ephraim Vishniac ephraim@think.com Thinking Machines Corporation / 245 First Street / Cambridge, MA 02142-1214
Lou@cup.portal.com (02/13/88)
Although I haven't had the first hand knowledge of GCC conduct that cuq@sun.com had, i did work for a few months at an apple dealership. almost all of the hyperdrives they installed were returned at one point or another. some customers had their drive serviced more than a dozen times. now, there were some people who never had problems with their hyper- drives. but they're the ones who also have growing gardens, low insurance premiums, and a drawerful of winning lottery stubs.
robert@mcco.UUCP (Robert R. Andrews) (02/14/88)
In article <40838@sun.uucp>, chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: > > >DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BUY A HYPERDRIVE! [bunch of stuff condemning hyperdrive deleted] > > If I were you, I'd buy anything else. And I'd find a dealer that tells you > truths, not what it takes to make a sale. Dealers love GCC. High profit > margins for everyone. Except for the customer. > > chuq > Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ > > What do you mean 'You don't really want to hurt her?' > I'm a Super-Villain! That's my Schtick! Well I have one of those Hyperdrives. And..... Chuq is absoulutely right. I cannot upgrade or enhance or anything to this machine without throwing more money at it than I would spend buying a new machine. With a larger drive. The only good thing about it is that it is fast. I will eventually donate it to my university. I wouldn't even want to try and sell it. Nobody would pay a resonable price (vs. my cost) and I wouldn't want to do that to anybody. (well maybe my next door neighbor). Once they've got you you stay got. And then they don't even acknowledge you're alive. Their support is in the next dimension. Updates? Whats that? And if you're not paying 200 per month in support fees tough. BTW that just means that if your drive goes south they will fix it. You still pay shipping from their "authorized dealer" if he cannot fix it in house. I'll never buy another system I can't take apart with my own hands. Although if this one acts up again I'll take it apart, I just may not get it back together again. On a more interesting note. I've got this 300 MB SCSI drive sitting here and I'm going to hook it up to a friends Mac II. Drool. Somebody mentioned a public domain SCSI driver out there. Any info? Does it include source? What I'm really interested in is sharing partitions of it between a Mac and an AT unix machine. But that's a wish item. Robert Andrews uunet!uport!mcco!robert Now that I've got MMU were do I get a MM disk? :^}
cnc@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Chris Christensen) (02/18/88)
My understanding is that if your 300MB SCSI drive was not built for a Mac you might have some problems. Apple SCSI is not SCSI, they apparently relesasef before the standard was final.