dlw@hpsmtc1.HP.COM (David Williams) (02/13/88)
Well I guess A/UX is for the rest of us, if we work for the military, fortune
100 or a university.
Monochrome "entry" system $8,597
Color system "entry" system $9,346
Development system (no monitor) 4megs of Ram $8,399
Development system monochrome & Ethertalk $9,996
Development system color & Ethertalk $10,745
Upgrade for current Mac II owners:
80meg [slow] disk (internal or external) with A/UX, PMMU & 4 megs of ram
internal drive: $4,879 [OUCH!!!!!]
external drive: $4979 [OUCH!!!!!]
A/UX reference manuals: $649 [Unbelievable, the HIGHEST priced set of manuals
I've heard of]
And now for a few comments:
Boy, I hope one gets the SOURCE to A/UX for those prices.
APPLE, I GUESS YOU DO NOT WANT INDIVIDUALS TO BUY A/UX AND DO ANY DEVELOPMENT.
I could buy a Mac II and ANY other 386 box with Unix or a SUN workstation for
cheaper than your prices.
This seems to follow a very disturbing trend in Apple & third party pricing
policies. Now that it is "acceptable" to buy macintoshes in corporate america,
Apple has no interest in selling to those of us who bought into their
philosophy, championed their products in corporate america and at home
and stood by the Mac since its introduction in 84. I have no problem with
apple making lots of money, more power to you! But, perhaps you fail to
recognize that the "enthusiasts" that are often referred to by spokesmen for
Apple are actually CHANGE AGENTS, who recognize the power and value of things
like the Mac and adopt it. These people put their money where their mouth is
and personally buy the machines, and bring them to work and use them until
their companies finally notice that yes, these people are productive and these
technologies are valid (like the Macintosh).
Perhaps Apple merely views A/UX as just another Trojan Horse to get Macs
bought by Universities and the federal government. Does box M run Un*x? Yes?
Ok it passes the approved checklist. If this is so, maybe I should not buy
A/UX from apple and buy a Unix box from someone else. I mean SoftPC which
emulates and allows you to run MS-DOS/Windows applications does not cost $3000,
it costs $695 which IS certainly affordable if DOS/Windows is necessary. Hmmm,
maybe someone will come out with a unix for the Mac II that doesn't cost an
arm and a leg.
Maybe Stanford, MIT, Chevron and Seafirst have 5-10k to spend on A/UX, but
those of us who PERSONALLY want a Mac II are hard pressed spending 5-6k on
just hardware, yet alone the additional sw cost.
Gee, I wonder if it makes more sense to just wait 2-3 months and buy the NeXT
machine, which will run Unix and at far faster speeds than the Mac II. It will
remain to be seen if Steve J & company have been infected with the "price it
for business and forget the individual mentality".
David Williams
"And while we are at it why is it a $10k computer has a 90day warranty?"
Disclaimer: This fascinating opinion has been brought to you by me and not my
employer.berger@clio.las.uiuc.edu (02/17/88)
Apple has a long history of leaving the poor (and I mean "poor"
in the literal sense) user out in the cold. Look what you'd have
paid if you had bought a Lisa and followed the Apple official
upgrade path all the way. You'd now own a $ 8000 Mac Plus.
Mike Berger
Department of Statistics
Science, Technology, and Society
University of Illinois
berger@clio.las.uiuc.edu
{ihnp4 | convex | pur-ee}!uiucuxc!clio!bergertwakeman@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Teriann Wakeman) (02/17/88)
as another enthiast who bought a 128K mac in '84, a used Mac+ in '86, founded the Mac user's group at Hewlett-Packard, carried a personal Mac into work intill the powers that be saw the high level of productivity coming from me and bought me a company owned Mac, I wish to echo the previous statement. the MacII at list price is at the limit of my personal budget and AUX totally blows any hope away. I have been a solid booster from the begining, and some of the people that i have worked with have accused me of being an Apple undercover agent. With the increased price of software and hardware, I'm actively looking for an affordable alternative to Apple products. I think that unless Apple becomes more price competitive, its time to look and see what's Next! TeriAnn Wakeman Hewlett-Packard Corporate Quality (415)857-5057 "Few things sadder then a disillusioned true believer" -Me The powers that be at HP would be the first to assure you that my ideas and opinions are mine and in no way to be considered as official HP.
kwallich@hpsmtc1.HP.COM (Ken Wallich) (02/19/88)
>[...] Look what you'd have paid if you had bought a Lisa and followed the >Apple official upgrade path all the way. You'd now own a $ 8000 Mac Plus. I seem to remember the "orignial" Lisa having a price tag of around $10,000. Wouldn't that make it a $14,000 MacPlus? And let't not forget those of us (yes, me too), that shelled out $2500 for a 128K Mac. Following Apples' upgrade path would have given me a $5000+ MacPlus. What I find irritating is that I can build a 386 Unix machine (no processor flames, I'm only interested in software functionallity, not raw power) running X-windows, and "good 'ol" system V unix for cheeper than Apple's proposed upgrade to my $7000 MacII. All I wanted to get out of A/UX is a machine to do news and mail transfers, X-Windows, Ethernet, and TCP/IP type transfers. I can get most of that functionality a lot cheeper. Were not talking MSDOS vs MAC/OS here, were talking similar operating systems running at similar speeds doing similar things. I figure that Apple doesn't expect the "rest of us" to buy A/UX ($650 for a manual set? geesh). However, if we can get it without shelling out $3200 (!!!! my 155meg 16.5ms WrenIII cost me $1800, can you say "mark up" boys and girls?) of the upgrade cost for an slow 80MB drive, it may be worth it. As a Mac, my MacII is wonderfull, and without peer. As a UNIX machine, well, perhaps the SPARC clones are worth waiting for... -------------------- Ken Wallich *My views are mine, and mine alone* Consultant "Slimey? Mud Hole? my HOME this is!" DCI kwallich@hpsmtc1.HP.COM @Hewlett Packard ...hplabs!hpsmtc1!kwallich "If we weren't all crazy, we'd all go INSANE"
rob@uokmax.UUCP (Robert K. Shull) (02/19/88)
In article <11540137@hpsmtc1.HP.COM> dlw@hpsmtc1.HP.COM (David Williams) writes: >"And while we are at it why is it a $10k computer has a 90day warranty?" I agree. Let's also ask Sun why a 30k computer has a 90 day warranty. (Answer: Well, you see, we, uh, have this here maintenance contract and it only adds a leeeetle bit to the cost of the machine, and you get SO MUCH MORE protection and peace of mind) I just wish Sun would drop their maintenance contracts down to what Apple charges. Robert -- Robert K. Shull University of Oklahoma, Engineering Computer Network ihnp4!occrsh!uokmax!rob CIS 73765,1254 Delphi RKSHULL Opinions contained herein in no way reflect those of the University of Oklahoma.
ephraim@think.COM (ephraim vishniac) (02/19/88)
In article <11540138@hpsmtc1.HP.COM> kwallich@hpsmtc1.HP.COM (Ken Wallich) writes: >I figure that Apple doesn't expect the "rest of us" to buy A/UX ($650 for >a manual set? geesh). My office bought a full set of Ultrix manuals from DEC for $750 last week, so there's nothing remarkable in Apple's price. Consider, though, that the typical Unix user doesn't need a full set of printed manuals. They're identical in content to the on-line versions that fill your disk, and you'll never read 90% of the material. Ephraim Vishniac ephraim@think.com Thinking Machines Corporation / 245 First Street / Cambridge, MA 02142-1214
phssra@emory.uucp (Scott R. Anderson) (02/21/88)
In <16939@think.UUCP> ephraim@vidar.think.com.UUCP (ephraim vishniac) writes: >In <11540138@hpsmtc1.HP.COM> kwallich@hpsmtc1.HP.COM (Ken Wallich) writes: >>I figure that Apple doesn't expect the "rest of us" to buy A/UX ($650 for >>a manual set? geesh). > >My office bought a full set of Ultrix manuals from DEC for $750 last >week, so there's nothing remarkable in Apple's price. Consider, >though, that the typical Unix user doesn't need a full set of printed >manuals. They're identical in content to the on-line versions that >fill your disk, and you'll never read 90% of the material. This is actually a good question: two years ago (this may have changed), a MicroVax running Ultrix did not come with on-line manuals; all you got was a set of paper manuals (it also didn't have troff, but that's a different complaint). The reason (I believe) was because of the space it took up on a system they assumed would have little extra disk space, although this is a decision that should really be made by the user. Anyway, this is one of those details that most people might not consider when making a purchasing decision. Does anybody know if A/UX comes complete with the on-line manuals? Is there anything else on a standard BSD system that might not be available on A/UX? * Scott Robert Anderson * ** gatech!emoryu1!phssra * * * ** phssra@emoryu1.{bitnet,csnet} * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
benoni@ssc-vax.UUCP (Charles L Ditzel) (02/22/88)
In article <1049@uokmax.UUCP>, rob@uokmax.UUCP (Robert K. Shull) writes: > In article <11540137@hpsmtc1.HP.COM> dlw@hpsmtc1.HP.COM (David Williams) writes: > >"And while we are at it why is it a $10k computer has a 90day warranty?" > I agree. Let's also ask Sun why a 30k computer has a 90 day warranty. I'll agree on that one to. But what alot of wishful thinking A/UX users are forgetting is that the 3/60 also can act as a server (remember the thing will proabably also have much faster disk I/O thanks to the DMA). The person I'm working with bought a diskless 3/50 and can use the 3/60 disk. Cheap and relatively fast compared to what an A/UX Mac II can or can't do. Of course the whole idea of a fast server for many Mac II's hung off of it, is something yet to be addressed by Apple. Second, the diskless Sun will soon be able to boot off of non-Sun equipment! Incidentally i'm sorry if anyone took offense to my explanation of the current lack of quality engineering/scientific applications for the AUX Mac II environment...I assumed that since we were having a "conver- sation" about the pros and cons of Sun-Apple it was appropriate (and is). I detect tho' that anything remotely negative or truthful on the subject has the possibility of bringing a tirade from those that feel A/UX is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Personally I think there is room for exploring things...even if it is uncomfortable. Incidentally, it still early in the A/UX Mac II life and things can only improve :). ----------------- My ideas are my own.
frankk@cwi.nl (Frank Kuiper) (02/23/88)
In article <430018@hpcea.CE.HP.COM> twakeman@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Teriann Wakeman) writes: > ... the MacII at list price is at the limit of my personal >budget and AUX totally blows any hope away. I think we are missing something here. I have been reading this net for some years now, and I can't remember ever having seen debates on the possibilities of buying one's own unix-box. Up 'till now, unix machines have always been purchased by the company/institute someone is working for. Now that a company brings out a unix version on what actually is a large PC-type of machine, I read many complaints that it's to expensive. True, I personally don't have the money to buy a MacII with A/UX, but I know that the institute I work for is seriously considering buying MacII's, with respect to Sun's and the like. So, to all you hackers who are trying to get their hands on a unix box for their personal satisfaction I say: "This is the first time ever, that you are even close to buying a unix machine for yourself, all beit still not a cheap one ..." -- Frank Kuiper, CWI, Amsterdam. ___ Internet: frankk@cwi.nl, frankk%cwi.nl@uunet.uu.net _][__| | AppleLink: HOL0042 <_______|-1 Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch. O-O-O
breck@aimt.UUCP (Robert Breckinridge Beatie) (02/24/88)
In article <427@sering.cwi.nl>, frankk@cwi.nl (Frank Kuiper) writes: > In article <430018@hpcea.CE.HP.COM> twakeman@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Teriann Wakeman) writes: > > ... the MacII at list price is at the limit of my personal > >budget and AUX totally blows any hope away. > > I think we are missing something here. I have been reading this net for > some years now, and I can't remember ever having seen debates on the > possibilities of buying one's own unix-box. > Up 'till now, unix machines have always been purchased by the > company/institute someone is working for. > ... > "This is the first time ever, that you are even close to buying a > unix machine for yourself, all beit still not a cheap one ..." Well, i guess you haven't been reading this net very carefully. AT&T was selling their UNIX PC for less than $2500 during the "fire sale". Or if you're not prejudiced against Intel chips (I am) you can get microport unix for a PC/AT compatible for a couple hundred dollars. And since you can buy a PC/AT compatible for less than a thousand dolars (without a hard disk, 80 MB system for $2100), this makes unix quite affordable. If you buy minix then you get a (purportedly) version 7 UNIX compatible system WITH SOURCE. Then today I saw this add in (I think) misc.forsale: UNIX System V 68010 Multibus machine 2 Mb RAM 43 Mb disk expandable to 172 Mb., 45Mb tape 8 to 16 users Matrox 512x512x8 color card with driver. Spare boards Unify, Q-Calc, Q-One, Fortran, reconfiguration rights. $2195. Of course this is a used box. For all I know it may only barely be a working system. For all I know it may not work at all. Let's face it, A/UX is not a bargain. But then what does Apple sell that is. So don't go praising Apple for making unix almost affordable. Now I don't mean to get down on Apple. Nor do I want to recommend that we run out and buy PC/AT clones. I'm prejudiced, remember? I just couldn't let the obvious misinformation in the referenced posting go by. Well, I thought I couldn't. -- Breck Beatie {uunet,ames!coherent}!aimt!breck "Sloppy as hell Little Father. You've embarassed me no end."
benoni@ssc-vax.UUCP (Charles L Ditzel) (02/24/88)
In article <427@sering.cwi.nl>, frankk@cwi.nl (Frank Kuiper) writes: > In article <430018@hpcea.CE.HP.COM> twakeman@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Teriann Wakeman) writes: > > ... the MacII at list price is at the limit of my personal > >budget and AUX totally blows any hope away. > > I think we are missing something here. I have been reading this net for > some years now, and I can't remember ever having seen debates on the > possibilities of buying one's own unix-box. Oh wait this is being discussed elsewhere...try no further than comp.unix.xenix... > I read many complaints that it's to[o] expensive. The complaints have been in the vein that for the same $$ one can buy an existing Unix workstation such as the Sun 3/[56]0. > "This is the first time ever, that you are even close to buying a > unix machine for yourself, all beit still not a cheap one ..." Except that for the same $$ you can buy an existing workstation. I think you do make the point which i mentioned in the comp.sys.windows a while back. Sun, Apple , 80[23]86 Unix implementations and NeXT *are* making a push [whether intentionally or otherwise] to make Unix the new standard at the low-end[*] (PC/Workstation hybrid) (pushing MS-DOS into oblivion and perhaps also OS-2). The next question is where is Mac OS going? I read that Sculley stated that Mac OS would get multi-tasking and the Mac OS would be overhauled. The effort was suppose to take three years??!?? * my notion of low-end is 1987 = 68000 80286 1988 = 68020 80386
tim@brspyr1.BRS.Com (Tim Northrup) (02/25/88)
From article <427@sering.cwi.nl>, by frankk@cwi.nl (Frank Kuiper): > In article <430018@hpcea.CE.HP.COM> twakeman@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Teriann Wakeman) writes: > > ... the MacII at list price is at the limit of my personal > >budget and AUX totally blows any hope away. > > So, to all you hackers who are trying to get their hands on a unix box > for their personal satisfaction I say: > "This is the first time ever, that you are even close to buying a > unix machine for yourself, all beit still not a cheap one ..." Sorry Frank, but this is bull! If you were to restrict your comment to just the MAC environment, then okay -- you may be correct. But you did not, so here come some facts. IBM came out with PC/IX, a full blown UNIX development system for the PC roughly 3 years ago, and then it cost around $1000. Today, you can get a full blown MicroPort version of System V for the PC at less than $1000. And you don't have to buy an 80 meg hard disk to get it. True, you don't get all of the MAC support software, but you don't have to pay for it either. Also, vendors for UNIX on the PC almost all provide unbundled packages -- you dont *have* to get the development stuff if you don't want it. UNIX in the home has been somewhat affordable for quite some time, and I think the price for A/UX is out of line -- $4000 more than the PC versions for what? A bunch of development tools that you may not need, and the "privilege" of installing a new 80 meg hard drive into your machine. (I think the software provided is probably worth having, but is it worth the additional $$?) -- Tim -- Tim "The Enchanter" Northrup ---------------------------- "She's strange, tim@brspyr1.BRS.Com or uunet!steinmetz!brspyr1!tim and I like it!" ==================================================== -- Cameo
kwallich@hpsmtc1.HP.COM (Ken Wallich) (02/25/88)
> > ... the MacII at list price is at the limit of my personal > >budget and AUX totally blows any hope away. (Frank Kuiper writes:) >I think we are missing something here. I don't. >I have been reading this net for some years now, As have I >and I can't remember ever having seen debates on the >possibilities of buying one's own unix-box. Perhaps you haven't been reading the right news groups :-). Granted this is the first time there has been a discussion of buying an Apple unix box, but then... >Up 'till now, unix machines have always been purchased by the >company/institute someone is working for. Whoa, hold on a minute. Here in the states we have had "Personal" unix machines for several years now. AT&T's unix machines may have been overpriced for the power they provided, but they were cheeper than a MacII with A/UX. There is also Xenix, which is kinda like unix for folks who can't afford it. >Now that a company brings out a unix version on what actually is a >large PC-type of machine, I read many complaints that it's to expensive. Yes, and it is. You'll also note that what we are mainly complaining about is that the PARTS are overpriced, and that you cannot as yet just buy A/UX. $650 for a set of manuals (even at 6000+ pages, that's 10 cents a page. I can copy things at my local copy center in that volume cheeper myself!), $3200 for A/UX on a hard disc (a $3200 hard disc), and currently no tape distribution or support. > "This is the first time ever, that you are even close to buying a > unix machine for yourself, all beit still not a cheap one ..." Wrong, wrong, wrong. I could go out and buy myself a "unix" machine today (a box, monitor, keyboard, disc, memory, serial ports, etc...) for LESS than buying the "upgrade" to my MacII. I have been able to buy a "unix" machine for less than my MacII cost me for at least 3 years (albeit slower, and far less snazzy). The point is we want the additional features that A/UX supports, since we are already Mac fans, however the additional goodies are not worth the astronomical price of the CURRENT upgrade scheme. From all the postings and documentation I've seen, I would guess that Apple's NEXT release is gonna resolve most of our gripes, but they should have tried there darndest to find an alternate way of doing initial distribution. One that takes into account all of us who ALREADY configured our machines with enought memory and disc space to use the software. I think most of us agree that the current release is under featured (no tape support? Floppy backups? HA!) and overpriced, but I am sure Apple at least knows the first, and probably has figured out the second. Perhaps we can put this subject to bed until NEXT release, then lambaste them for what they do wrong then :-) :-). >Frank Kuiper, CWI, Amsterdam. >Internet: frankk@cwi.nl, frankk%cwi.nl@uunet.uu. -------------------- Ken Wallich *My views are mine, and mine alone* Consultant "No mystical energy field controls MY destiny" DCI kwallich@hpsmtc1.HP.COM @Hewlett Packard ...hplabs!hpsmtc1!kwallich "If we weren't all crazy, we'd all go INSANE"
wetter@tybalt.caltech.edu (Pierce T. Wetter) (02/25/88)
> >IBM came out with PC/IX, a full blown UNIX development system for the >PC roughly 3 years ago, and then it cost around $1000. Today, you can >get a full blown MicroPort version of System V for the PC at less than >$1000. And you don't have to buy an 80 meg hard disk to get it. You only have to buy an 80 meg drive to run it. :-) People who have 80 meg or greater drives so they could put unix on it can and should complain, anyone who wanted to run unix on 20 meg should hit themselves 20 times with a wet noodle. >UNIX in the home has been somewhat affordable for quite some time, and >I think the price for A/UX is out of line -- $4000 more than the PC >versions for what? A bunch of development tools that you may not need, >and the "privilege" of installing a new 80 meg hard drive into your >machine. My experiences with Xenix. IBM: we don't support that, microsoft does. MS: we don't support that, IBM does. My expierience with Apple: 1: Hmmm... We'll check on it. 2: Yeah. Someone else had that problem. Here do this until the new version comes out. My father's experience with HP-UX: zillons of floppys to install. a useless c compiler to make the kernel zillions of useless printed copys of the man pages. Eats disk space on drives that cost several K for a 20 meg. >(I think the software provided is probably worth having, but is it worth >the additional $$?) Yes. True if you're not a unix-hacker having a unix which can actually shutdown and go into another operating system without having to spend 20 min rebuilding the file structure might not be worth extra money. Or a unix which doesn't take a day to install an _configure_. Or one that comes standard with all the things you would have had to port anyway. The people who think apple's prices are too high are missing the point. Apple is selling A/UX as a real system. Comparing A/UX to a sun is reasonable because suns come with a large assortment of useful utilities. Comparing it to a $200 port of unix isn't because to get a useful system you will have to add a fair amount of outside utilities and do a lot of porting to your version of unix. Caveat: You aren't paying for 'just' unix, you're paying for all the other stuff they had to port and debug and support. True, you could buy a $200 version of unix, a third party drive, an AT clone. Then you could completly rewrite the $200 version of unix so that it actually worked with your clone, and spend lots of time porting emacs et. al. to your system. Of course you'd have to buy some development tools to do that...Maybe another hard disk to hold all that stuff... You can't get ahead, you can't even break even. Besides the general rule I've noticed when pricing mac systems versus others is: Hardware: more then the alternative. Software: less then the alternative. Hardware+Software: About even on both sides. As chuq says: a sun makes a poor mac, a mac a poor sun. As I say: Xenix? Don't make me laugh. P.S. if you feel like replying to my obviously biased views (unix is for dweebs) do it with E-Mail (wetter@tybalt.caltech.edu). This is starting to become a religous war and I doubt everyone else wants to read 20 replies which say I'm wrong Brand X unix from Y is so wonderful. Bleah. Make E-Mail not war! Pierce Wetter Finagle's Creed: Science is true. Don't be misled by facts. -------------------------------------------- wetter@tybalt.caltech.edu --------------------------------------------
mckay@ea.ecn.purdue.edu (Dwight D Mckay) (02/26/88)
There are cheaper ways to buy a UNIX workstation for home use then running A/UX on a Mac II. For example: A used Sun 2/120. Specs: 19 ich monochrome monitor 68010 w/3 Meg. Memory in multi-bus card cage two 50 Meg. disks 1 1/4 inch cart tape drive 6 serial ports keyboard and optical mouse Four of us here purchased machines like this for about $4000 a piece. We had considered Mac II's but even before A/UX was announced it was clear that a Mac II equiped in a similar fashion to the above system would be far more expensive. As it turns out it's more that twice as expensive to get a similar Mac II system. Although the above system is somewhat slower then a Mac II, it's overall performance is quite good (due in part to DMA for disk I/O). And I have money left over to buy more disk space or a laser printer or whatever... --Dwight D. McKay, Moderator of Suns-at-Home mailing list
phssra@emory.uucp (Scott R. Anderson) (02/26/88)
In article <2739@brspyr1.BRS.Com> tim@brspyr1.BRS.Com (Tim Northrup) writes: > >IBM came out with PC/IX, a full blown UNIX development system for the >PC roughly 3 years ago, and then it cost around $1000. Today, you can >get a full blown MicroPort version of System V for the PC at less than >$1000. And you don't have to buy an 80 meg hard disk to get it. >.... >UNIX in the home has been somewhat affordable for quite some time, and >I think the price for A/UX is out of line -- $4000 more than the PC >versions for what? A bunch of development tools that you may not need, >and the "privilege" of installing a new 80 meg hard drive into your >machine. I think you are missing an important point here: the cost of A/UX itself is only around $1000 (quick estimate). This is in line with the prices you mention above, and it provides a complete Sys V with BSD enhancements. The rest of the cost is for the hardware required to run it (e.g. 80 MB disk, 4 MB memory, PMMU). And this gives you a level of performance you can't match with the UNIX's you mention. So, granted that it's not the cheapest UNIX around, but it's not at all out of line, given what you are actually purchasing. So, don't compare A/UX to a PC; compare it to a Sun. * Scott Robert Anderson * ** gatech!emoryu1!phssra * * * ** phssra@emoryu1.{bitnet,csnet} * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
benoni@ssc-vax.UUCP (Charles L Ditzel) (02/26/88)
In article <5561@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu>, wetter@tybalt.caltech.edu (Pierce T. Wetter) writes: > The people who think apple's prices are too high are missing the point. > Apple > is selling A/UX as a real system. Comparing A/UX to a sun is > reasonable because suns come with a large assortment of useful utilities. > Comparing it to a $200 port of unix isn't because to get a useful system you > will have to add a fair amount of outside utilities and do a lot of porting > to your version of unix. .... > You can't get ahead, you can't even break even. Well prior to buying my Sun I gave serious consideration, to a 386 Unix. But I just like SunOS better for most of the reasons you cited. Another machine which was quite good and that is selling at "bargain rates" is the PC 7300 from AT&T. You could pick one up with a 67 meg disk and System V Unix for around $2300 or less. > P.S. if you feel like replying to my obviously biased views > (unix is for dweebs) > do it with E-Mail (wetter@tybalt.caltech.edu). This is starting to become > a religous war and I doubt everyone else wants to read 20 replies which say I'll pass. Tho' clearly Apple doesn't necessarily share your view!? A/UX may become their future... (did I hear the convulsive shudder of a whole bunch of Mac OS users :^)
roland@moncsbruce.oz (Roland Yap) (02/27/88)
Can some kind soul post some details about the differences between AUX and SYS5 or BSD. What has Apple put in that they can charge so much for it, considering that Apple has traditionally not charged for their operating systems? Roland