ajq@j.cc.purdue.edu (John O'Malley) (04/27/88)
Mike G Newman writes: >... dedicated or transparent print in which printer traffic sent by the host >will not appear on the screen but will be routed directly to the printer. Gray Watson writes: >... FLAWLESS vt-100 emulation >... an incredible character set >... macros, neat Red Ryder features >... MacKermit file transfers, etc. Discussion starter: WHEN, oh WHEN will some clever software engineers come up with a COMPLETE (no kidding, I mean ALL-INCLUSIVE) terminal emulation program? My dream terminal software will have - flawless VT100 emulation (my testing shows that MacTerminal is strong, Gray Watson says that Terminal DA 1.5 is excellent) - flawless emulation of the other popular term types - MultiFinder background XMODEM, YMODEM, long-packet Kermit, MacBinary, and other transfer protocols, also ability to be Kermit server (like MacKermit can do) - macros and scripting (Red Ryder is strong in this department) - selected screen dumping to printer or disk (Red Ryder) - a working VI mouse (point to where you want the cursor and click) - a complete character set, including bold, double-size, underline, 80 or 132 column, international characters (again, MacTerminal is pretty good) - ability to define keys (MacKermit feature) - (What else should be listed here?) I'm most familiar with Red Ryder, MacKermit, and MacTerminal (can you tell? :-) ). I've looked into VersaTerm and Microphone. But while each of these have strong features, they're always lacking in something else. So, like some of you have to do, I have to switch programs every so often depending on what I need to do. I guess what I'd like to see is a terminal program that is what Excel is to spreadsheets, what ReadySetGo and PageMaker are to desktop publishing, what Reflex Plus and 4th Dimension are to databases. A program this good could easily fit into the class of software that they sell for $195-$495. A friend of mine thinks that, compared to MS-DOS term programs, the Mac is "way behind." I'm not overly familiar with such software, but I'm inclined to agree. Hello, Microsoft? Claris? Apple? John O'Malley \ Personal Computing \ Purdue University \ (317) j.cc.purdue.edu!ajq \ Learning Resource Center \ Computing Center \ 494-1787
Eric_Shockwave-Rider_Larson@cup.portal.com (04/29/88)
John O'Malley writes:
A friend of mine thinks, that compared to MS-DOS, Mac term programs
are way behind.
Your friend is absolutely correct. There is not one single Mac term
program that does even the ESSENTIALS that MS-DOS programs handle
Flawlessly....Things like CTS handshaking for high speed modems. Or
Zmodem. (I find it simply staggering that there in not one single
Mac implementation of Zmodem, which has become THE protocol for
Fidonet transactions, and is simple the BEST software file transfer
protocol available).
The low quality of Mac comm software is mind boggling...the most
advanced protocol offered (and on some systems like Red Ryder it
doesn't even work properly) is Ymodem. Do you (rhetorical you)
know when Ymodem was invented? Nineteen Eighty One!!
<<<< I Want Zmodem >>>>spector@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU (David HM Spector) (04/29/88)
Oh,... I can't resist...
(set gas jets to low broil)
What do you MEAN low quality of Macintosh communications software?!?!?
Ever use CrossTalk on a PC?!? Or ``tip'' on a Unix machine?
With the exception of RedRyder, most every Macintosh terminal program offers
qualities that would be the envy of any dedicated terminal. Even "lowly" Mac-
Terminal offers 5 different kinds of file transfer capabilities and is a
_perfect_ vt102 emulator. (There isn't ONE DEC package that macTerminal will
NOT work with.)
Granted there are things that one would like to see in a "Grand Unified Terminal
Program"... but there is nothing shabby about any of them and you can
find terminal program that do at least 85% of everything you'd ever want.
(gas jets off)
Seriously, there is no reason to flame Mac comm s'ware... Not even RedRyder
(I just don't like its user interface).
It you wanna see neeto terminal packages for the Macintosh, take a look
at White Pine Software's vt2xx emulators or Abelebeck's (sp?) VersaTerm series.
Pretty impressive for what some silly people still call a "toy computer".
_DHMS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David HM Spector New York University
Senior Systems Programmer Graduate School of Business
Arpa: SPECTOR@GBA.NYU.EDU Academic Computing Center
UUCP:...!{allegra,rocky,harvard}!cmcl2!spector 90 Trinity Place, Rm C-4
MCIMail: DSpector New York, New York 10006
AppleLink: D1161 CompuServe: 71260,1410 (212) 285-6080
"What computer can do work like this?" "Hire us and we'll tell you."len@netsys.UUCP (Len Rose) (04/29/88)
Are you listening Chuck Forsberg.. I will pay dollars for Zmodem also!
--
Len Rose - NetSys
internet: len@ames.arpa
uucp: {ames,decuac,ihnp4}!netsys!lenchn@a.UUCP (Charles Neil) (04/30/88)
In article <650020@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU>, spector@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU (David HM Spector) writes: > > Oh,... I can't resist... > > (set gas jets to low broil) > What do you MEAN low quality of Macintosh communications software?!?!? [defense of terminal emulators for mac deleted] > at White Pine Software's vt2xx emulators or Abelebeck's (sp?) VersaTerm series. Here's something I consider very useful that exists on VTERM for the IBM PC but doesn't exist in VersaTerm: the toggle between the terminal and the micro. You can toggle out of VTERM, work locally on stuff you may have just downloaded, and then toggle back to the terminal instantly. Another advantage of VTERM over VersaTerm is the size of the scrollback buffer--it's adjustable and big on the PC. Still, I'm glad to have the mac for all its other virtues over the PC. > Pretty impressive for what some silly people still call a "toy computer". > -- Charlie Neil (chn@lanl.gov) Los Alamos National Laboratory (505) 665-0978
akk2@ur-tut (Atul Kacker) (04/30/88)
In article <650020@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU> spector@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU (David HM Spector) writes: > >Oh,... I can't resist... > I can't resist either... >With the exception of RedRyder, most every Macintosh terminal program offers >qualities that would be the envy of any dedicated terminal. Even "lowly" Mac- >Terminal offers 5 different kinds of file transfer capabilities and is a >_perfect_ vt102 emulator. (There isn't ONE DEC package that macTerminal will >NOT work with.) > Have you ever taken a look at what these 5 file transfer protocols are ? Text, MacBinary, XModem Text, MacTerminal1.1, Straight Xmodem. Now tell me how many DIFFERENT protocols do you see here ? What else speaks MacTerminal1.1 or MacBinary for that matter ? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Atul Kacker | Internet: akk2@tut.cc.rochester.edu | UUCP: {ames,cmcl2,decvax,rutgers}!rochester!ur-tut!akk2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
spector@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU (David HM Spector) (04/30/88)
I use MultiFinder (as I am right now..) and can get to any Macintosh application and the desktop. (I am running MacTerminal, Hypercard, Finder and the MPW Shell...) Also (with MacTerminal and I am sure others..) I can save as much "off the top" as my hard disk will hold... I can also cut and paste to and from the terminal window and other programs. David
ajq@j.cc.purdue.edu (John O'Malley) (04/30/88)
In article <650020@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU> spector@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU (David HM Spector) writes: > ... most every Macintosh terminal program offers > qualities that would be the envy of any dedicated terminal. I agree ... every Mac term program has certain good qualities. But the point of my original posting was that I know of no ONE terminal program that offers EVERY one of the good qualities! Every existing program lacks in what I consider to be key features! > Even "lowly" MacTerminal offers 5 different kinds of file transfer > capabilities In article <1917@ur-tut.UUCP> akk2@tut.cc.rochester.edu.UUCP (Atul Kacker) writes: > Have you ever taken a look at what these 5 file transfer protocols are ? > Text, MacBinary, XModem Text, MacTerminal1.1, Straight Xmodem. > Now tell me how many DIFFERENT protocols do you see here ? What else speaks > MacTerminal1.1 or MacBinary for that matter ? Yeah, also my point! MacTerminal's biggest strongpoint is its excellent vt100/vt102 emulation. But aside from being able to print from the screen and record login sessions, it really can't do anything. Sure, it's got one real (real = error checking and supported by other programs as well) file transfer protocol, but even that one isn't the best available today, according to other responders. Ymodem and Zmodem are claimed to be up there. Don't get me wrong ... I've been a heavy-duty Macintosh advocate since the Mac 128. But I won't be convinced that it's a serious telecommunications competitor until someone can show me a program that meets my original posted list of qualifications. I'd love to see someone at Apple or Claris respond to my original posting. Anyone? John O'Malley \ Personal Computing \ Purdue University \ (317) j.cc.purdue.edu!ajq \ Learning Resource Center \ Computing Center \ 494-1787
smethers@psu-cs.UUCP (Paul Smethers) (05/02/88)
In article <6970@j.cc.purdue.edu> ajq@j.cc.purdue.edu.UUCP (John O'Malley) writes: >Mike G Newman writes: >WHEN, oh WHEN will some clever software engineers come up with a COMPLETE >(no kidding, I mean ALL-INCLUSIVE) terminal emulation program? > Sounds like you need Microphone from Software Ventures. It is programmable and has met most of my needs. There is a new version that is supposed to support backgrounding and more programmability. Paul Smethers SmethersBarnes
straka@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Straka) (05/02/88)
In article <599@a.UUCP> chn@a.UUCP (Charles Neil) writes: >In article <650020@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU>, spector@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU (David HM Spector) writes: >> at White Pine Software's vt2xx emulators or Abelebeck's (sp?) VersaTerm series. >Here's something I consider very useful that exists on VTERM for the >IBM PC but doesn't exist in VersaTerm: the toggle between the terminal >and the micro. You can toggle out of VTERM, work locally on stuff >you may have just downloaded, and then toggle back to the terminal >instantly. You must not be running MultiFinder and VT 3.1! VT 3.1 will do downloading of multiple files in the BACKGROUND while you do other things with your Mac. The download speed doesn't even seem to slow down by more than 10-20%, either. Multifinder (really a multitasking operating system) is the PROPER way to switch out of the emulator and do other things, anyway. The PC programs provide escapes to the command interpreter because there are NO OS hooks to do so cleanly. >Another advantage of VTERM over VersaTerm is the size of >the scrollback buffer--it's adjustable and big on the PC. Still, I'm The buffer size is changeable (under MultiFinder) by doing a "get Info", and changing the memory partition available. About 180K is the minimum, ~280K is the default shipped with the program. >glad to have the mac for all its other virtues over the PC. > Amen! >> Pretty impressive for what some silly people still call a "toy computer". Amen! ^2 -- Rich Straka ihnp4!ihlpf!straka Advice for the day: "MSDOS - just say no."