billo@cmx.npac.syr.edu (Bill O) (04/13/88)
In article <10321@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> zwicky@pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu (Elizabeth D. Zwicky) writes: >In article <407@swanee.OZ> gustav@swanee.OZ (Gustav) writes: >>in article <2328@uvacs.CS.VIRGINIA.EDU>, hsd@uvacs.CS.VIRGINIA.EDU (Harry S. Delugach) says: > >>> Is there any Mac software that matches the functionality of *troff >>> and family? Does anyone out there regularly use embedded citations >>> which are gathered at the end of a document? How about footnotes? >>> Does it work for a large document (approx 200 double-spaced pages)? > >>No, there isn't any that would match the power and versatility of >>troff. You can try Textures, or combine it even with LaTeX (if Addison >>Wesley produced any yet), but you cannot use it to produce any big >>documents. > >False. I use MacTeX by FTL, which happily (albeit slowly) crunches >my entire Facilities Guide of nearly 300 pages, pictures, cross-references, >footnotes, table of contents, fancy fonts and all. For convenience >I often do the actual processing on a Sun 3/180, which cuts processing >time by a factor of at least 10, but I have done it on the Mac, which is >a plain ol' Mac+. The print quality is absolutely identical to that >from our UNIX boxes. The previewer is perfectly good, although all > . . . >Elizabeth Zwicky Of course, if you have a Mac-II with at least 5MB of memory (and if money were no object), you could use Interleaf. This product probably has everything you could want for dissertation writing: "auto-number streams" for embedded citations, footnotes, table-of-contents generation, a semi-automated indexing facility, an eqn-compatable equation editor, and fully integrated text and graphics with extensive drawing tools. I am lucky enough to be doing my dissertation with Interleaf, which is ideal for the mix of equations and graphics that I have. Currently I am using a Sun 3/110, but we (NPAC) will soon be getting it for some of our Macs. Has anyone reading this group had any experience with Interleaf on the Mac. I am especially interested in hearing about performance (i.e. speed), and the effect of screen size on its usablility. If you have any relavent information, mail it to me. If response is sufficient, I'll post a summary. Thanks in advance. ==================================================================== I am responsible for my own opinions, and I am not affiliated in any way with Interleaf. Mail to billo@cmx.npac.syr.edu
jwhitnel@csi.UUCP (Jerry Whitnell) (04/14/88)
In article <346@cmx.npac.syr.edu> billo@cmx.npac.syr.edu (Bill O) writes: |Of course, if you have a Mac-II with at least 5MB of memory (and if |money were no object), you could use Interleaf. MacUser/MacWorld (I can't remember which) reviewed Interleaf this month. General conclusion was a very good product but should have used more of the Mac toolbox for it's user interface. It also doesn't use the Font Manager, so the font capability isn't as good as "real" Mac programs. |any way with Interleaf. Mail to billo@cmx.npac.syr.edu Jerry Whitnell Been through Hell? Communication Solutions, Inc. What did you bring back for me? - A. Brilliant
billo@cmx.npac.syr.edu (Bill O) (05/02/88)
A while back I solicited comments concerning Interleaf
Publishing Software on the Mac. I've had a few responses,
so, as promised, here is a summary.
WHAT'S MISSING/NOT MISSING IN THE MAC VERSION
=============================================
From SDL...
They use their own fonts, which is fine by me since they include just
about everything in the LaserWriter Plus. Everything from the Sun is
there except the eqn package ... but MathType or similar packages
get the job done.
------
Editor's note: Interleaf apparently has plans to port eqn in the
future. This summer there will be an interim release of Publisher
that will interface with other Mac equation packages. Note that the
Mac also doesn't have continuous tone image editing. The Mac version
also only supports PostScript fonts and devices.
------
CONCERNING THE MAC USER INTERFACE
=================================
From SDL...
Getting used to the difference in their window and menu system from the Mac's
takes about a day, and even though I'm a Mac programmer who spend mucho
time doing things according to Apple's User Interface Rules, I really like
much of the IL interface.
------
From FAD...
As all the Mac reviewers have complained, it's not the Mac interface.
To get the function of a three-button mouse, they require you to hold
down command and click (equivalent to the middle mouse button) or
shift-click (the right button). All the keyboard action is a little
frustrating when you're working with the mouse. Double clicking would
have been nice.
------
From Eph...
My immediate manager has Interleaf on his Mac II, and all of us in my
office have it on our Sun 3/50's. The implementations are
fastidiously identical, which is to say that Interleaf on the Mac is
not a Mac program. It's an alien program that runs on the Mac
hardware.
------
CONCERNING SPEED/PERFORMANCE
============================
From SDL...
I am currently running Interleaf Pub on a Mac II w/ 8Mb. I run w/ a
1Mb ram cache usually. ... I have been very impressed with the speed
of ILP. Their windows are blazing and the WP makes FullWrite and Word
look sick. It can scroll faster than I can click or drag.
All printing is done in PostScript and is VERY fast. I have ~150
pages of bitmap figures and they print so fast compared to other Mac
software (including doing a straight screen dump from the System!),
that IL must be doing some very good PS hacking.
Their menus, windows, etc. are simply the fastest stuff I've ever seen
on a Mac. I wish Apple's code was this fast...
------
From Eph...
Performance is quite good.
------
INTEGRATION/COMPATIBILITY WITH MAC ENVIRONMENT & OTHER SYSTEMS
==============================================================
From SDL...
It is file compatible w/ IL on Sun/RT/etc. and can run in a
heterogeneous network environment. You can bring PICTs and TEXT from
the Mac side over to IL either through a DA or directly from the Mac
clipboard which is converted to a doc in the IL clipboard when you
start IL.
IL doesn't support multifinder, but it does run in a 6144k partion,
but sometimes has problems, nothing terminal, but under finder it is
SOLID.
------
From FAD...
They convert everything you paste from the clipboard, which works
fine, but you can't have other applications open at the same time.
You have to use DAs or the Scrapbook to get graphics from external
sources.
------
MONITOR SIZE
============
From SDL...
I'm doing my thesis with it and even on a 12" Apple monochrome screen
it is great.
------
From Eph...
A small screen is a big problem, especially if you're used to a larger
one, so ... quickly got a larger monitor.
------
OVERALL IMPRESSIONS
===================
From SDL...
They do need to make some adaptations for the Mac and add a thesaurus,
etc., but I'm very happy with it.
IL really makes Word and FW look like toys in comparison. If they
improve their bitmap editor it will be even better.
This is the first software in the Mac market that I ever known to ship on
the announced date and to be ABSOLUTELY SOLID. We paid $1k for a university
copy, but I would gladly pay $2,495 for this product for professional use.
Yup, I like it.
------
From FAD...
We've used Interleaf on Suns for a while, and now have it on a Mac II
also. It's very nice.
------
RESPONSIVENESS OF COMPANY
=========================
From FAD...
We have a list of general gripes about Interleaf -- but a lot of these
will be addressed by release 4.0, which is due in a few months. They
are next door to us, and we've made direct contact with engineers,
which helps with questions and responsiveness to suggestions.
------
From Eph...
We're not directly connected to Interleaf, but we do deal with them
more than the average customer. They're about two blocks from us, the
wife of one of my office-mates works there, and we had a bunch of
their engineers over for lunch to discuss user-interface problems last
week. They seem to be quite interested in what real users have to say
about the product.
------
Credits: SDL: Steven D. Leeke (leeke@glacier.stanford.edu) Stanford University
FAD: Franklin A. Davis (fad@think.com) Thinking Machines Corp.
Eph: Ephraim (ephraim@think.com) Thinking Machines Corp.
Many thanks to the contributors.
Bill O'Farrell, Northeast Parallel Architectures Center at Syracuse University
(billo@cmx.npac.syr.edu)jts@siemens.UUCP (Jim Sasaki) (05/04/88)
> From SDL... > .... Everything from the Sun is there except the eqn package .... > > Editor's note: Interleaf apparently has plans to port eqn in the future.... Very interesting. We seem to have a version of Sun Interleaf that doesn't have eqn. (Either that, or it's buried so deep in the documentation that no one has found it.) People told me there is no way to get non-numeric subscripts with our Interleaf. Perhaps we need some sort of upgrade. The only personal experience I have with Interleaf was for a couple of hours; I can't say I enjoyed them. Footnotes were painful: I had to manually place the footnote mark (e.g., the dagger) at the bottom of the page, I had to manually break the footnote text at the end of each line, and the only way to correct a line was to erase it and retype it. They nested pull-right menus too deeply (my personal opinion) -- to change the font size, you had to go 3? 4? 5? levels down. I have no experience with Mac Interleaf, so none of the above is necessarily relevant. -- Jim Sasaki (jts%siemens.com@princeton.edu) -------------------- Any opinions above are my own, and not necessarily those of Siemens RTL, for whom I consult.