[comp.sys.mac] Prob with LaserWriter II NTX and font disk

mha@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Mark H. Anbinder) (05/17/88)

We are having trouble attaching a SuperMac DataFrame XP20 hard disk drive
to our new LaserWriter II NTX for use as font storage space.  We're not
sure whether SuperMac disks just don't work with the printer, or whether
the fact that its SCSI address is set at 1 might affect things.  The Font
Utility program, in any case, is unable to recognize the drive in order
to initialize it as a font storage disk.

Any ideas?  Please respond via e-mail.

-- 
Mark H. Anbinder                                ** MHA@TCGould.tn.cornell.edu
NG33 MVR Hall, Media Services Dept.             ********************* *** * *
Cornell University      H: (607) 257-7587       ********************* *   * *
Ithaca, NY 14853        W: (607) 255-1566       ********************* *** ***

mha@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Mark H. Anbinder) (05/18/88)

Okay, the concensus is that SuperMac hard drives, which use RLL encoding,
will not work as a font disk on the LaserWriter II NTX.  Everyone seems to
agree on that point.  The next question has to be, what SCSI drives from
third-party manufacturers DO work with the II NTX?  Buying an Apple drive
shouldn't be the only answer.

-- 
Mark H. Anbinder                                ** MHA@TCGould.tn.cornell.edu
NG33 MVR Hall, Media Services Dept.             ********************* *** * *
Cornell University      H: (607) 257-7587       ********************* *   * *
Ithaca, NY 14853        W: (607) 255-1566       ********************* *** ***

Ilan@cup.portal.com (05/19/88)

>We are having trouble attaching a SuperMac DataFrame XP20 hard disk drive
>to our new LaserWriter II NTX for use as font storage space.  We're not
>sure whether SuperMac disks just don't work with the printer, or whether
>the fact that its SCSI address is set at 1 might affect things.  The Font
>Utility program, in any case, is unable to recognize the drive in order
>to initialize it as a font storage disk.

When Apple Computers introduced the LaserWriter ][ series several third
party disk add-on vendors complained that their drives dont work with the
the LaserWriter ][.  Apple Computers replied that the vendors did not adhere
to the SCSI specifications and therefore their drives are not compatible with
the printers SCSI.  There is one command which is implemented by Apples
SCSI, but not on the vendors (I dont recollect which one).  The SuperMac
DataFrame probably falls into this incompatibility trap.

Good luck.               - Ilan Rabinowitz -   with ILANET(tm)
                               Ilan@cup.portal.com
                               GENIE: I.RABINOWITZ
                               (408) 248-0521

kateley@Apple.COM (Jim Kateley) (05/19/88)

In article <4843@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> mha@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Mark H. Anbinder) writes:
>Okay, the concensus is that SuperMac hard drives, which use RLL encoding,
>will not work as a font disk on the LaserWriter II NTX.  Everyone seems to
>agree on that point.  The next question has to be, what SCSI drives from
>third-party manufacturers DO work with the II NTX?
                           ^^^^^^^          ^^^^^^

I don't have a list, but there are two main things that the drive must do:

1. It must provide SCSI terminator power.
 
2. It must be able to report to the printer what size volume it is.
   This is done via the SCSI command "Mode Select".


-- 
Jim Kateley          UUCP: {sun, voder, nsc, mtxinu, dual}!apple!kateley
S,P,HnS!             DOMAIN: kateley@apple.COM  Applelink: kateley1
Disclaimer:   What I say, think, or smell does not reflect any policy or
	      stray thought by Apple Computer, Inc.

mdr@reed.UUCP (Mike Rutenberg) (05/19/88)

There is supposed to be a problem connecting 3rd party drives to the NTX,
sepcifically a way Apple does some SCSI stuff with their drive.  I don't
know the details.

Try an Apple drive to see if that works.  Check with your Apple dealer
or representative to find out exactly what the NTx requires..

ecs165s052@deneb.ucdavis.edu (0000;0000015000;4000;250;216;ecs165s) (05/19/88)

In article <4843@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> mha@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Mark H. Anbinder) writes:
>Okay, the concensus is that SuperMac hard drives, which use RLL encoding,
>will not work as a font disk on the LaserWriter II NTX.  Everyone seems to
>agree on that point.  The next question has to be, what SCSI drives from
>third-party manufacturers DO work with the II NTX?  Buying an Apple drive
>shouldn't be the only answer.
>

I've used an Everex EMAC-20 as a font disk for about a month now with no
problems.  Just use the LaserWriter Font Utility to initialize the disk and
away you go!


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Greg DeMichillie               |{ucbvax, lll-crg, sdcsvax} 
lgdemichillie@ucdavis.edu      |      !ucdavis!lgdemichillie 
or ecs165s052@ucdavis.edu      |
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ephraim@think.COM (ephraim vishniac) (05/19/88)

In article <10425@apple.Apple.Com> kateley@apple.UUCP (Jim Kateley) writes:
>In article <4843@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> mha@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Mark H. Anbinder) writes:
>>Okay, the concensus is that SuperMac hard drives, which use RLL encoding,
>>will not work as a font disk on the LaserWriter II NTX.  Everyone seems to
>>agree on that point.  The next question has to be, what SCSI drives from
>>third-party manufacturers DO work with the II NTX?

>I don't have a list, but there are two main things that the drive must do:

>1. It must provide SCSI terminator power.

>2. It must be able to report to the printer what size volume it is.
>   This is done via the SCSI command "Mode Select".

Mode Select allows the host to *set* (i.e. select) various
characteristics of the drive.  Mode *Sense* is the command that allows
the host to retrieve the drive characteristics.  This is probably the
command that Jim Kateley's thinking of.

Mode Sense is a tough way to get the size of the drive, though.  Read
Capacity is much easier since it simply returns the sector size and
last sector number, with no other junk to parse.

Ephraim Vishniac					  ephraim@think.com
Thinking Machines Corporation / 245 First Street / Cambridge, MA 02142-1214

     On two occasions I have been asked, "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put
     into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"

ecs165s052@deneb.ucdavis.edu (0000;0000015000;4000;250;216;ecs165s) (05/20/88)

In article <9364@reed.UUCP> mdr@reed.UUCP (Mike Rutenberg) writes:
>There is supposed to be a problem connecting 3rd party drives to the NTX,
>sepcifically a way Apple does some SCSI stuff with their drive.  I don't
>know the details.

The details are that the drive must be able to report it's size when
the LaserWriter Font Utility requests it.  Since this feature is not
used when a drive is connected to a Mac, many drive makers decided not
to implement.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Registrar:
    from the latin "registrarum" meaning "screw the student"
----------------------------------------------------------------
Greg DeMichillie               |{ucbvax, lll-crg, sdcsvax} 
lgdemichillie@ucdavis.edu      |      !ucdavis!lgdemichillie 
or ecs165s052@ucdavis.edu      |
AppleLink : ST0178             | 
----------------------------------------------------------------

rusty@pnet06.cts.com (Rusty Hodge - Sysop) (05/21/88)

Are you saying the software drivers on the drives may not respond to this, ot
are you saying that the physical SCSI controllers don't support these
commands?

I think you are saying the first.  Therefore, you should be able to
just use Apple's formatting software (if your drive is compatible).

Rusty Hodge, HCR Inc, 1588 N. Batavia St. Orange, CA 92667      (714) 974-6300
rusty@hodge.cts.com [uunet vdelta crash]!hodge!rusty        FAX (714) 921-8038