buzz@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Mahboud Zabetian) (03/24/88)
In article <7767@apple.Apple.Com> goldman@apple.UUCP (Phil Goldman) writes: |In article <1316@ut-emx.UUCP> jdm@ut-emx.UUCP (Jim Meiss) writes: |>back PrintMonitor. I finally hit the debug button and got the finder |>back by SM 0 A9F4, G 0. But the system was in an unstable state...As | |One more note: There is nothing in MultiFinder that prevents the Finder from |quitting, there is simply no way for the user to convince the Finder to do so. | |-Phil Goldman |Apple Computer There is no way to quit the Finder. That's alright, it's nice having the Finder around all the time. What I want to know is: Why is it that you can't quit Multifinder? It would be so nice being able to do that instead of rebooting. -- Mahboud Zabetian buzz@phoenix.princeton.edu 183 Little Hall (609) 520-1271 Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544 (609) 734-7760 ****** Anyone need a soon-to-graduate hardware/software engineer? ********
ps01@bunny.UUCP (Paul Suh) (03/25/88)
In article <2156@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> buzz@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Mahboud Zabetian) writes: >There is no way to quit the Finder. That's alright, it's nice having the >Finder around all the time. What I want to know is: > > Why is it that you can't quit Multifinder? It would be so nice being > able to do that instead of rebooting. >-- >Mahboud Zabetian buzz@phoenix.princeton.edu I assume that you mean "I want to go from MultiFinder to normal Finder" in your question. The answer is easy. In your system folder, there are two files, Finder and MultiFinder. To go from one to the other, hold down the command and option keys on the keyboard and double click on the one you want. (e.g. if you're in MF and want to go to Finder, double click on the Finder icon.) --Paul
chow@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Christopher Chow) (03/25/88)
In article <5767@bunny.UUCP> ps01@bunny.UUCP (Paul Suh) writes: |In article <2156@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> buzz@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Mahboud Zabetian) writes: ||There is no way to quit the Finder. That's alright, it's nice having the ||Finder around all the time. What I want to know is: || || Why is it that you can't quit Multifinder? It would be so nice being || able to do that instead of rebooting. | |I assume that you mean "I want to go from MultiFinder to normal Finder" |in your question. The answer is easy. In your system folder, there are |two files, Finder and MultiFinder. [...] |(e.g. if you're in MF and want to go to Finder, double click on the Finder | Oh really? And under which Finder/System/Multifinder release can you do this? Seriously, though, this going from Multifinder to [Uni]Finder business ought be straightened out. Rebooting in order to drop from MF to F is a big kludge [Servant, though buggy, can do "Shut Up" from Servant to Finder]. BTW, before MF was released there was a rumor that Andy was going to do a non multitasking version of Servant. I.e., a servant which would run as a Finder substitute under Multifinder. Has anyone heard more about this? Christopher Chow /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Internet: chow@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (128.84.248.35 or 128.84.253.35) | | Usenet: ...{uw-beaver|ihnp4|decvax|vax135}!cornell!batcomputer!chow | | Bitnet: chow@crnlthry.bitnet | | Phone: 1-607-253-6699 Address: 7122 N. Campus 7, Ithaca, NY 14853 | | Delphi: chow2 PAN: chow | \---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
goldman@Apple.COM (Phil Goldman) (03/26/88)
In article <2156@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> buzz@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Mahboud Zabetian) writes: >There is no way to quit the Finder. That's alright, it's nice having the >Finder around all the time. What I want to know is: > > Why is it that you can't quit Multifinder? It would be so nice being > able to do that instead of rebooting. Well, there are basically 2 reasons to quit MF, as far as I can figure. (1) To run apps incompatible w/ MF (2) To run apps so large that they can't run just by themselves under MF. Category 2 is a pretty small one. There are only a handful of apps that must have 670K to run (I know, now everyone in the world will mention MacFoo, which needs exactly 700K to run, so that it won't run w/MF, but will still work on a Plus anyway). Anyway, if it were possible to quit the Finder, then we're talking about a **very** narrow band of memory requirements for an app that could run standalone on a a MacPlus, but not under MF. So, this leaves category 1. If such a feature was added to MF, it would take away all, or at least most, incentive for the developers of the incompatible app to rev their product in order to make it MF-friendly. Of course, it would be totally unreasonable to not allow users to run the program at all anymore, thus the compromise of forcing a reboot. The reboot should not take that much longer than quitting an app in the single-app world, unless you have 8000 INITs installed. This was our thinking. Was it unreasonable? System software (including MF) is released every 6 months so it is always possible to add/change features. Are there other reasons for allowing MF to quit that I omitted? -Phil Goldman Apple Computer
hammen@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Robert J. Hammen) (03/26/88)
In article <4156@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> chow@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Christopher Chow) types: >BTW, before MF was released there was a rumor that Andy was going to do a >non multitasking version of Servant. I.e., a servant which would run as a >Finder substitute under Multifinder. Has anyone heard more about this? Yes, this is MiniServant, and it has been around at least since the Boston MacWorld Expo. I receieved a copy of it on a disk of HyperCard stacks Apple passed out at the Users Group breakfast there. I don't believe it is really "finished" however, and I doubt that Andy Hertzfeld ever wants to touch the Servant project again. >Christopher Chow /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / Robert Hammen Computer Applications hammen@csd4.milw.wisc.edu / / Delphi: HAMMEN GEnie: R.Hammen CI$: 70701,2104 / ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
buzz@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Mahboud Zabetian) (03/26/88)
In article <7785@apple.Apple.Com> goldman@apple.UUCP (Phil Goldman) writes: >This was our thinking. Was it unreasonable? System software (including MF) >is released every 6 months so it is always possible to add/change features. >Are there other reasons for allowing MF to quit that I omitted? > >-Phil Goldman >Apple Computer How about in cases of applications(like Copy2Mac or Disk Express) that don't always work like they are supposed to because "there are files that are open or busy on this disk" since the finder will try to read any disk you insert before your disk utility gets a chance to get its hands on it. Or if you try to change the Finder(menus, icons...) with ResEdit, with MF, you can't. I think that if its not too hard, then maybe you should put in the option to quit. I know a lot of people who would love to be able to quit MF, add or delete fonts, or DA's without having to reboot. You're right Phil, it shouldn't be that big a deal to reboot, but I, like many other people, sometimes can't do that(like when I have my harddisk published via TOPS and there are others using my volume). But the emphasis is on "if its not too hard"(meaning: as long as it doesn't make the MultiFinder file much bigger). -- Mahboud Zabetian buzz@phoenix.princeton.edu 183 Little Hall (609) 520-1271 Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544 (609) 734-7760 ****** Anyone need a soon-to-graduate hardware/software engineer? ********
macak@lakesys.UUCP (Jim Macak) (03/27/88)
goldman@Apple.COM (Phil Goldman) writes about reasons one might want to quit from MultiFinder back to the Finder, and concludes with: > This was our thinking. Was it unreasonable? System software > (including MF) is released every 6 months so it is always possible to > add/change features. Are there other reasons for allowing MF to quit > that I omitted? Phil, For me, on a "mere" 1 meg Mac Plus, due to memory constraints, for the few times that I do use MultiFinder, I usually want to return to the Finder during the same work session. Given some bugginess of the programs that I use, this is the best way for me to work. Thus, a MF --> F exit would be useful to me, and I presume others with memory limitations. This situation is similar to your reason #2, in one sense, but different enough that I wanted to comment... Jim -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Jim --> macak@lakesys.UUCP (Jim Macak) {Standard disclaimer, nothin' fancy!} >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
dorner@uxg.cso.uiuc.edu (03/28/88)
Phil Goldman writes: >(2) To run apps so large that they can't run just by themselves under MF. > >Category 2 is a pretty small one. There are only a handful of apps that must >have 670K to run (I know, now everyone in the world will mention MacFoo, which >needs exactly 700K to run, so that it won't run w/MF, but will still work on >a Plus anyway). Unfortunately, at least one program that fits in this category is Apple's very own HyperCard! Some of us find this little thing useful (or necessary). I am *ALWAYS* switching between MF and non-MF for this very reason on my (1M--more on order) SE. In fact, I imagine there are a LOT of people out there with exactly this problem, entirely brought on by Apple. (Not that I'm complaining [much]; both MF and HC are really wonderful--I just wish they could be used together.) ---- Steve Dorner, U of Illinois Computing Services Office Internet: dorner@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu UUCP: ihnp4!uiucuxc!dorner IfUMust: (217) 333-3339
raylau@dasys1.UUCP (Raymond Lau) (03/29/88)
Some time ago, Phil Goldman asked.. Are there other reasons for allowing MF to quit that I omitted? Well..... yes and no. It would be nice to be able to Shutdown and Restart w/o having to load in the regular Finder under MF. Currently...I quit from whatever shell I'm using (w/the Shutdown command), leaving one application running. I quit from that, getting the can't load Finder msg. I click restart and flip the pwr switch before it restarts. Not the most elegant way to shutdown, but faster than jumping into the Finder. -Ray
ralph@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk (Ralph Martin) (03/31/88)
Another reason for wanting to quit multifinder is to do back-ups. I'd hate to back-up an open file, and then try to restore goodness knows what state the file was in.
Richard_Vernon_Ford@cup.portal.com (05/15/88)
Has anyone come up with a good solution to the following problem.
You're using tops and have a client on one of your published volumes..
for whatever reason you need to switch from multifinder to finder.
Is there a way to do this without restarting the machine and causing
the TOPS clients to have to reconnect...and risk loosing their work?
-Richard
richard_vernon_ford@cup.portal.com
{sun,ucbvax}!cup.portal.com!richard_vernon_forddorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David M. O'Rourke) (05/16/88)
In article <5441@cup.portal.com> Richard_Vernon_Ford@cup.portal.com writes: >You're using tops and have a client on one of your published volumes.. >for whatever reason you need to switch from multifinder to finder. Open the System Folder, find the MultiFinder Icon and double click on it while holding down the Option-Command keys. You can launch anyfile in this manner, I'm not saying it will work {launching MF this way works fine} but clicking on the ImageWriter won't show some new and weird application to you. Now for some Macintosh LEGEND {notice LEGEND in BIG letters}. The designers of the Mac put this option here to allow them to launch software that they knew would run, apparently the Lisa Pascal Workshop didn't always do a good job of informing the finder that the file is an application, so they put this option there to allow them to by-pass the finder's safty net of not letter users do anything BAD. In this way they could lanuch what the finder would've normally considered a document rather than an application. David M. O'Rourke +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | dorourke@polyslo | Disclaimer: All opinions in this message are mine, but | | | if you like them they can be yours too. | | | Besides I'm just a student so what do I | | | know! | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | When you have to place a disclaimer in your mail you know it's a sign | | that there are TOO many Lawyer's. | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David M. O'Rourke) (05/16/88)
In article <2604@polyslo.UUCP> dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David O'Rourke) writes: A load of bull. I'm sorry I answered the wrong question. I thought the question was going from the finder to MF. It's not! He wants to know how to go from MF to Finder Well I don't know, and I'm sorry I pretended to have an answer in the previous posting. My apologies to netland. I will try and read the messages closer next time. David M. O'Rourke +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | dorourke@polyslo | Disclaimer: All opinions in this message are mine, but | | | if you like them they can be yours too. | | | Besides I'm just a student so what do I | | | know! | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | When you have to place a disclaimer in your mail you know it's a sign | | that there are TOO many Lawyer's. | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
mnkonar@srcsip.UUCP (Murat N. Konar) (05/16/88)
dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David O'Rourke) writes >Open the System Folder, find the MultiFinder Icon and double click on it >while holding down the Option-Command keys. You can launch anyfile in >this manner... Setting the type field of MultiFinder to 'APPL' allows you to launch it WITHOUT holding down the option and command keys. Doesn't help you quit however.
blh@vlsi.cs.cmu.edu (Bruce Horn) (05/17/88)
The reason I put command-option launch into the Finder was not because of the Lisa Pascal Workshop, but because when I was testing newer versions of the Finder I didn't want to have to keep changing the type and creator of the Finder file itself. That was before we had support for downloading to the Mac from the Lisa with type and creator specified, if I remember correctly.-- Bruce Horn, Carnegie Mellon CSD uucp: ...!seismo!cmucspt!cmu-cs-vlsi!blh ARPA: blh@vlsi.cs.cmu.edu
pgn@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Paul G. Nevai) (05/18/88)
How come none of you came up with this old trick: change the multifinder type to APPL, and then you can just use it as an application. Hence you don't need to dig into your system folder etc. Any minfinder or equivalent can launch it. IT WORKS!!! You can use, say, DiskTop to change the TYPE. Paul Nevai pgn@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu Department of Mathematics TS1171@ohstvma.BITNET The Ohio State University 73057,172.Compu$erve Columbus, OH 43210 1-(614)-292-5688.office U.S.A. 1-(803)-292-4975.secy
dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David M. O'Rourke) (05/19/88)
In article <1696@pt.cs.cmu.edu> blh@vlsi.cs.cmu.edu (Bruce Horn) writes: >The reason I put command-option launch into the Finder was not because of ect..... Somehow having the person who wrote the program answer the question lends an aura of authority to the posting, but I'm not quite sure why! Thankyou very much for you posting, having you answer the question directly is VERY nice. I hope I didn't offend you with my second-hand story. David M. O'Rourke +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | dorourke@polyslo | Disclaimer: All opinions in this message are mine, but | | | if you like them they can be yours too. | | | Besides I'm just a student so what do I | | | know! | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | When you have to place a disclaimer in your mail you know it's a sign | | that there are TOO many Lawyer's. | +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
steele@Apple.COM (Oliver Steele) (05/28/88)
mnkonar@ely.UUCP (Murat N. Konar) writes: >Setting the type field of MultiFinder to 'APPL' allows you to launch it >WITHOUT holding down the option and command keys. Doesn't help you quit >however. A lagniappe: if you do this you can create a QuicKey to launch MF. I run in SingleFinder and press control-M to switch. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oliver Steele steele@apple.com Apple ATG