thomas@eleazar.dartmouth.edu.UUCP (05/20/88)
Why hasn't someone written an Apple II or IIgs emulator for the Mac II? I have
seen one for the Mac that was compatible enough with the Apple II to run
Choplifter. It had two problems: speed, memory, and lack of color. It seems
like such an emulator on the Mac II would solve all of those problems. This
would give Mac II owners access to software like color games that are so
chronically lacking.
I was always amazed at the quality of game programs that came out for the II
series considering the limited and obscurely-implemented graphics that were
available before the gs. It seems that current game software for the Macs
are just scratching the surface of the abilities of the machines, while the
games for the II, like Choplifter or Dino Eggs, squeezed out every possible
effect...Only Dark Castle can compare to some of the better Apple II games.
So, it seems like such an emulation program would make quite a bit of money if
someone were willing to put in the time. (If only I had the time and skill...)
==============================================================================
Thomas Summerall
H.B. 3445 -- Dartmouth College
Hanover, NH 03755
thomas@eleazar.dartmouth.edu
==============================================================================john@oscvax.UUCP (John O'Neill) (05/22/88)
In article <8514@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> thomas@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Thomas Summerall) writes: >Why hasn't someone written an Apple II or IIgs emulator for the Mac II? I have >seen one for the Mac that was compatible enough with the Apple II to run >Choplifter. It had two problems: speed, memory, and lack of color. I have seen ads for an Apple II emulator in A+ magazine (about 2 years ago) from a company named Meacom in Autsin, Texas. I tried calling them about a month ago and they have disappeared (or they have left the area). If the emulator you described is theirs, I can understand why they may have gone out of business. Since I could not find any alternatives, I have attempted to write my own emulator (in C). Right now, it does the 6502 emulation OK and all of the memory-mapped screens, screen switches, keyboard stuff, etc., but it is PAINFULLY slow. I think if I can write it in assembler, it might be quite reasonable. (I am not too fluent in 68000/68020 yet) So far, I have got all of the Apple II+ rom programs (Applesoft and the monitor) running and a few games, but they are not too playable. If I get a faster version finished, I'll send it off to the binaries group. Has anyone else heard of an Apple II emulator on the market, or has written one that is reasonably fast??? I'd really like to be able to use my store of Apple II software on my Mac. -- John -- John O'Neill Ontario Science Centre ...watmath!utai!utgpu!oscvax!john
mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) (05/22/88)
> Why hasn't someone written an Apple II or IIgs emulator for the Mac II? Becuase a Mac II needs to emulate an Apple II as much as an Amiga needs to emulate a Vic-20. Presumably, if you bought a Mac II you want to run all of the native applications its capabilities support, not a bunch of obsolete apple II programs. > This would give Mac II owners access to software like color games > that are so chronically lacking. If you really wanted to play color games and can afford a Mac II, I assume you could buy a small 8-bit computer just for that purpose. The best way to emulate a particular computer is to buy it. --M Michael Portuesi / Information Technology Center / Carnegie Mellon University ARPA/UUCP: mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu BITNET: rainwalker@drycas "if you ain't ill it'll fix your car"
chow@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Christopher Chow) (05/22/88)
In article <QWZZ-7y00Ugy01Im13@andrew.cmu.edu> mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) writes: > >> This would give Mac II owners access to software like color games >> that are so chronically lacking. > >If you really wanted to play color games and can afford a Mac II, I >assume you could buy a small 8-bit computer just for that purpose. > Why do you oppose the concept of playing color games on a Macintosh II? I suppose you'd also be opposed to running A/UX on a Mac II - after all, I can go out an buy a small 32-bit computer just for that purpose [say a Sun3/60] Seriously, the Mac II is a _general purpose_ machine. Those of use who own one for personal use would like to have the ability to play games, preferably in color. After spending several thousand dollars on a Mac II system I see no reason why I should go out and shell out money for another system just to play games. Christopher Chow /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Internet: chow@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (128.84.248.35 or 128.84.253.35) | | Usenet: ...{uw-beaver|ihnp4|decvax|vax135}!cornell!batcomputer!chow | | Bitnet: chow@crnlthry.bitnet | | Phone: 1-607-253-6699 Address: 7122 N. Campus 7, Ithaca, NY 14853 | | Delphi: chow2 PAN: chow | \---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) (05/25/88)
Christoper Chow writes: > Why do you oppose the concept of playing color games on a Macintosh II? I do not oppose the concept of playing color games on a Macintosh II. I do oppose the concept of making a Mac II emulate a piece of 1977 technology because it lacks color games. > I suppose you'd also be opposed to running A/UX on a Mac II - after > all, I can go out an buy a small 32-bit computer just for that > purpose [say a Sun3/60] Seriously, the Mac II is a _general purpose_ > machine. I suggested buying an 8-bit computer since the cost of a software emulator would pay for a substantial portion of an 8-bit computer system. Your analogy to A/UX and Sun-3's does not follow. > Those of use who own one for personal use would like to have the > ability to play games, preferably in color. After spending several > thousand dollars on a Mac II system I see no reason why I should go > out and shell out money for another system just to play games. It's also an issue of market demand. If most Mac II's end up in offices where they do publishing, video and networking applications, fewer color games will be written for it than for a system that is widely used for personal applications. I suspect that few purchasers of Mac II's had game-playing high on their list of reasons for purchasing the machine. --M Michael Portuesi / Information Technology Center / Carnegie Mellon University ARPA/UUCP: mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu BITNET: rainwalker@drycas "if you ain't ill it'll fix your car"
ephraim@think.COM (ephraim vishniac) (05/25/88)
In article <0WaZRRy00VsfE6eAkt@andrew.cmu.edu> mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) writes: >I suspect that few purchasers of Mac II's had game-playing high on >their list of reasons for purchasing the machine. Well *I* did. I'm very pleased that Uninvited and ShadowGate still work. I'm annoyed that Pinball Construction Set (Electronic Arts) is completely dead, and I'm sore at Microsoft for reneging on an explicit promise to update Flight Simulator. (At the press conference when the SE and II were announced, Microsoft's press release said they would be updating *all* their software for the new machines. They mentioned FlightSim by name. They lied.) Other games that work on the II: Golf 1.0 (you can even edit the PICT resources to color the face cards, if you like); Brickles 8.0; Nord and Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It; and MacWrite 5.0 (sure it's a game: just watch the spelling checker in action!). >Michael Portuesi / Information Technology Center / Carnegie Mellon University >ARPA/UUCP: mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu BITNET: rainwalker@drycas Ephraim Vishniac ephraim@think.com Thinking Machines Corporation / 245 First Street / Cambridge, MA 02142-1214 On two occasions I have been asked, "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
tim@ism780c.UUCP (T.W."Tim" Smith, Knowledgian) (05/26/88)
In article <636@oscvax.UUCP> john@oscvax.UUCP (John O'Neill) writes:
< Since I could not find any alternatives, I have attempted to write my own
< emulator (in C). Right now, it does the 6502 emulation OK and all of the
< memory-mapped screens, screen switches, keyboard stuff, etc., but it is
< PAINFULLY slow. I think if I can write it in assembler, it might be quite
How did you handle condition code computation?
--
Tim Smith tim@ism780c.isc.com
"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the
kind of person I'm preaching to" -- J.R. "Bob" Dobbsstuart@ihlpe.ATT.COM (S. D. Ericson) (05/26/88)
In article <0WaZRRy00VsfE6eAkt@andrew.cmu.edu>, mp1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Portuesi) writes: > [previous reply ommitted here...] > I suggested buying an 8-bit computer since the cost of a software > emulator would pay for a substantial portion of an 8-bit computer > system. Your analogy to A/UX and Sun-3's does not follow. substantial? maybe... > > > Those of use who own one for personal use would like to have the > > ability to play games, preferably in color. After spending several > > thousand dollars on a Mac II system I see no reason why I should go > > out and shell out money for another system just to play games. I agree. Let's get this one down - a new Apple II/gs with color monitor must run for $1000 or more. If someone can emulate it reasonable on a Mac II, I've saved $800 - gettin access to TONS of programs that will probably never be ported (due to death of companies, etc..) I've alos saved a LOT of desk space, and can (hopefully) do innovative things like cut and paste between "machines" (if the emulator is done right, of course.) I know there was a black & white Apple II emulator named "II in a Mac", which ran on the Good ol' Fat Mac (the 512K), but I don't know if it runs on a II, or if they've upgraded for color. They used to have an add regularly in one of the Mac rags (MacUser or MacWorld) but I haven't checked lately. Maybe its listed in on of those Mac software guides. But imagine the advantage of emulators. With multifinder, I could have II in a mac running in one (or more?) windows, SoftPC in some others, and, of course, Mac II windows. Three SIGNIFICANT microcomputer architectures up and running on the same machine, with cut-and-paste abilities, shared files(?), shared network and printer resources. Quite a system. If A/UX ever integrates with Multifinder, then you would have everything (well, except VMS. MVS and other Ima Brainwashed Monkey (IBM) OS's don't count. 1/10 :-) > > It's also an issue of market demand. If most Mac II's end up in > offices where they do publishing, video and networking applications, > fewer color games will be written for it than for a system that is > widely used for personal applications. > > I suspect that few purchasers of Mac II's had game-playing high on > their list of reasons for purchasing the machine. > But that's no reason to count us out! I do want some recreation. (I know, you didn't say we didn't want them, you indicated a general view of low market demand). I just wish I knew if there was a GOOD, COLOR Apple II emulator. Stu -- Stuart Ericson USnail: AT&T Bell Laboratories USENET: ...!ihnp4!ihlpe!stuart IH 2H210 voice: (312) 979-4491 2000 N. Naperville Road Naperville, Il 60566-7033
the_medic@pedro.UUCP (The Medic) (05/27/88)
You asked about Apple ][ emulation on the Mac... I tried "][ in a Mac" (Computer: Applications, Inc. 12813 Lindley Dr. Raleigh, NC 27614; (919) 846-1411) on the Mac II, and it worked at least as fast as an Apple ][, a pleasant surprise, considering the fact that it's so annoyingly turtle-like on a 512K. The screen size looked strange on the Mac II, of course, but you can get used to that. No sound, no color, of course, but the speed alone is the best factor. On the SE it would probably be perfect. My big problem with ][ in a Mac is getting anything to run; if anyone has the program, please leave email, as I have a number of questions, and the company never responds to my letters, even after supporting them through 2 versions...
benjamin_kuo@pedro.UUCP (Benjamin Kuo) (05/30/88)
<21146@think.UUCP> I have a complete list (well, almost complete) that has been published in MacUser. Check out the March 1988 issue of MacUser, pg. 46&47. (New on the Menu). I went through almost everything in 2, 4, 16, and 256 color modes.