ajq@mace.cc.purdue.edu (John O'Malley) (06/03/88)
Just a few days ago, I was asked to recommend a disk fixer utility package. Not having experience with them myself and vaguely remembering I'd heard good things about MacZap, I mentioned it. Well, he ordered it from MacConnection (receiving, as is usual, absolutely excellent service from them) for $39. I borrowed the disk and manual to try it out on both a bad floppy and a hard disk (had the floppy a while, hard disk coincidentally crashed today). It's looking like my recommendation was a >>BIG<< MISTAKE. The documentation is absolutely horrid, and the MacZap utilities are not only incredibly un-user friendly, but they actually bomb right and left! After at least 3 hours of coercing the software, I had absolutely no success with the floppy and I was only able to salvage ONE file (a MacWrite file) off the hard disk. And I seriously think that the software saved that one file for me by accident! This is not the kind of behavior I'd expect from a product labeled "version 5.0"! I've given up. The hard disk backups are four days old, so I won't lose too many files. Now I wish that MacConnection had a money-back guarantee, so that I could recommend returning the entire MacZap package ... :-( The whole problem with the hard disk started, by the way, when a Lightspeed-C program crashed the system. Finder (booted from floppy) now wants to initialize the whole "damaged" hard disk. Any suggestions? Tell me quick, 'cause the hard disk's about to be re-initialized! Mac SE HD20 (crashed)/Sys 4.2/Find 6.0/MacZap Recover HFS & Recover 5.0 --- John O'Malley \ Personal Computing \ Purdue University \ (317) mace.cc.purdue.edu!ajq \ Learning Resource Center \ Computing Center \ 494-9944
werner@utastro.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) (06/03/88)
I can't help myself, but this is the dummest piece of product bashing I've seen in a long time. Apple really has done a disservice to some people, making them expect that "anything is easy and user-friendly" on a MAC. why do you think that noone else has even attempted to come out with a competing product to MacZAP? Why haven't I seen anything even remotely like it on other machines? This program is a bargain at the price (there are years of work in that program) - too bad Les is only an excellent hacker and not also a good faith-healer..... why don't you flame Apple for not providing you with better recovery utilities - or, just maybe, at least a few extra pages in their "revolutionary" thin manual which helps the "naive" user in the hour of need and data-loss sure to come. > The documentation is absolutely horrid well, yes, I have seen better; but I've seen Les learn and work with Apple's "Inside Macintosh" for many years now. something must have rubbed off, I guess, and it wasn't very "user-friendly". > and the MacZap utilities are not only incredibly un-user friendly now, now; have you ever before worked on the low machine-level that disk-repairs unavoidably have to take you ...??!! > but they actually bomb right and left! it's not the authors fault that outfits like MacConnection sell you a version that has long since been upgraded; even though, I do not remember ZAP programs "bombing left and right" (or vice-versa) in version 5.0...... > After at least 3 hours of coercing the software > I had absolutely no success with the floppy and I was only able > to salvage ONE file (a MacWrite file) off the hard disk. that may reflect on you as well as on the difficulty of the problem. often, setting just one switch or data value different can make all the difference; soemtimes a situation is hopeless. > I seriously think that the software saved that one file for me by accident! "in spite of you" may be more like it .... > This is not the kind of behavior I'd expect from a product labeled > "version 5.0"! you must be one of those silly ninkompoops that plays lot of games. let's see now... there was the original 128k Mac with Finder 1.0 and 1.1g, then we got HFS, 512K, new ROMs, Mac+, SE, Mac2, Systems 3.0 3.1, 3.1.1, 3.2, 4.1, 4.2, SCSI ....not to forget 400k and 800k floppies, hard disks of 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 60, 65, 80, 90, .... MBytes, networked machines, file-servers, ...... what kind of version-numbering system would take care of this in only 5 versions? > I've given up. The hard disk backups are four days old, so I won't lose > too many files. Now I wish that MacConnection had a money-back guarantee, > so that I could recommend returning the entire MacZap package ... :-( I see, you showed off being a "recovery expert" and when you could not recover once the program arrived, you blame the program... right! I wonder what "knowledge" you had to recommend to someone to go out and buy ZAP? did you actually "see" someone using it before, or did you just "know" of someone that has used it before..... I have bad news for you in both cases: what you, probably, didn't realize is that, every time, there was a hapless disk-owner standing next to the recovery-whizard PRAYING INTENSELY!! Next time, you may want to recommend "intense praying" as a recovery technique ..:-| > Finder (booted from floppy) now wants to > initialize the whole "damaged" hard disk. Any suggestions? Tell me quick, > 'cause the hard disk's about to be re-initialized! normally, I go out of my way and (practically) drop everything and try to come to the assistance of a fellow-netter. but in this case I think I'll let you "rot in the sun, a little" ... -------------------------------------------------------------- so, what's really the problem? well, years ago I recommended to Les that he write a little game called MacMASH, a detective game where the player is presented with fictitious Macintosh defects which he has to repair to be able to free the bewitched princess (or regain access to his little black electronic address-book which contains the number of his Swiss bank-account) Thus, users could buy and play the game, and, when disaster really strikes, they could simply call MicroAnalyst, and for a few dollars more, Les could then give them the magic password that would turn the game into a repair program - the user would already have acquired the experience of how to "play the game" ....and would not have to wait for 5 days or pay for UPS-RED shipping .... or get frustrated when not being able to "magically" acquire the insights needed to deal with a complicated problem. You think I am kidding? You don't know me ... reminds me of that "expensive" upgrade on some IBM-mainframes in the early seventies. You'd fork over megabacks, an IBM tech would come visit the installation and throw a switch - presto!! Seriously now, when lightning strikes and puts your Mac on the blink, you don't mail-order a tool-kit and manuals for colour-TV repair. you should have similar respect for software-procedures!! If nothing else, don't judge the quality of the tools by the results of your first repair-experiment. And if you don't have what it takes to "learn" before "needing to know" (foresight, time and/or ....) don't be surprised when waving the shrink-wrapped package at the problem doesn't produce the desired result. So THERE - I needed that! ---Werner Disclaimer: I speak as a "deliriously happy" user of MacZAP and customer of MicroAnalyst Inc, which is an outfit with capable and friendly people, which I have learnt to appreciate. PS: > Now I wish that MacConnection had a money-back guarantee, > so that I could recommend returning the entire MacZap package ... :-( why don't you offer to sell it for what you seem to think that it is worth to you and you may be surprised.....
phil@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Phil Sohn) (06/04/88)
I have completely recovered at least 35 hard disks with MacZap. I have tried several other recovery programs including FEdit and MacTools, neither of which were as good as MacZap. MacZap has recovered disks where these others have failed. It maybe not so easy to use, but in a recovery utility program like MacZap I would gladly give up a little ease of use for more features. I have recovered DataFrames, HyperDrives, Apple HD, Apple SCSIs, and Jasmine drives. I highly recommend it. The only problem is that you need as much blank space as used space to recover easily. (i.e. you need another hard disk at least as big as the trashed on.) It will recover to floppies, but that is a pain. phil@ems.media.mit.edu
ajq@mace.cc.purdue.edu (John O'Malley) (06/04/88)
Open mouth, insert foot ... Go ahead and say "I told you so" if you want to. Another try (the next day, when I had more resolve to learn how to make MacZap do what it's designed to do) at recovering lost files WORKED. My flame of MacZap was premature. But I've got to respond to some of these comments. MacZap works, but I think it could use some improvement. In article <2734@utastro.UUCP> werner@utastro.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) quotes me and also writes: >> The documentation is absolutely horrid > well, yes, I have seen better; but I've seen Les learn and work > with Apple's "Inside Macintosh" for many years now. something must > have rubbed off, I guess, and it wasn't very "user-friendly". I'd think that Les would have seen Apple's bad example and then wanted to come out with something better ... >> and the MacZap utilities are not only incredibly un-user friendly > now, now; have you ever before worked on the low machine-level > that disk-repairs unavoidably have to take you ...??!! ... There's no reason that a complex task has to be difficult. Programs like Microsoft Excel take complex tasks and make them more simple. And documentation can, metaphorically speaking, take finding a needle in a haystack and make it as easy as ... well, using a Macintosh, provided it's written and organized well. MacZap could be even more powerful if its documentation were improved. >> but they actually bomb right and left! I really did have an easy time getting the program to bomb. Even clicking outside the active window or clicking where there isn't an on-screen button sometimes bombed the MacZap programs. > it's not the authors fault that outfits like MacConnection sell you > a version that has long since been upgraded; I agree completely. If this copy is old, my friend (you'll remember that I just borrowed the package) should see if he can get an upgrade. >> I had absolutely no success with the floppy and I was only able >> to salvage ONE file (a MacWrite file) off the hard disk. > often, setting just one switch or data value different can make > all the difference; soemtimes a situation is hopeless. Indeed, the floppy was hopeless. And that file I saved later bombed MacWrite. But MacZap successfully recovered other files after I made sure I followed the online help exactly. MacZap's success the second time around made my posting flame-able. > you must be one of those silly ninkompoops that plays lot of games. Actually, most of my Mac work involves MacDraw, ReadySetGo, MacWrite, MacPaint, and Microsoft Word, but I enjoy playing a game ocassionally... Flames for flaming MacZap prematurely I deserve, but I don't think I'm a "silly ninkompoop"... > [ ... Deleted stuff about Mac system version numbers and the like ] > what kind of version-numbering system would take care of this in > only 5 versions? I agree; there's no standard for creating version numbers. A 5.0 of one program could be better than a 7.0 of another program. Or the reverse could be true. > you showed off being a "recovery expert" and when you could > not recover once the program arrived, you blame the program... right! > I wonder what "knowledge" you had to recommend to someone to go > out and buy ZAP? A "recovery expert" I'm not, and never claimed to be. A while back, there were good things about MacZap posted on the net. Net postings are, for the most part, quite reliable. It's not too much to expect a Mac program to be user friendly, and MacZap could be made more user-friendly. Coincidentally, my roommate discovered that someone else thinks so too ... on page 8 of the June Macworld is an ad for Symantec Utilities, described there as "an advanced, expanded, and more friendly version of the best-selling MacZap recovery utility ..." >If nothing else, don't judge the quality of the tools by the results of >your first repair-experiment. Reasonable advice ... I learned from experience. >Disclaimer: I speak as a "deliriously happy" user of MacZAP and customer > of MicroAnalyst Inc That much is certain! :-) If you're "deliriously happy" with MacZap and these Symantec Utilities are really a user-friendly MacZap, then maybe here's a program that could make BOTH of us happy! Meanwhile, my friend will have to put up with the complexities of MacZap. Power for the price of patience. OK, here's the inevitable question: Anyone tried Symantec Utilities yet? John O'Malley \ Personal Computing \ Purdue University \ (317) mace.cc.purdue.edu!ajq \ Learning Resource Center \ Computing Center \ 494-9944
wiedmann@aurora.uucp (Christian Wiedmann) (06/09/88)
After seeing all these comments about MacZap, I've decided I need to put
in my two cents worth.
MacZap looks like a great program, but seems unfinished.
For example, why can't you recover a floppy with just one disk drive? Here's
what happened when I tried:
I've got a bad floppy. I boot a disk with MacZap recover on it, and run the
program. I pop in the bad disk. MacZap says it needs to read a parameter file.
Fine, I insert the disk with parameter files, and then choose the apropriate
file ("800K Floppy", or something). It then reads the file, and starts
recovering files. Unfortunately, it never ejects the floppy to let me insert
the bad disk.
Is there any way to do this correctly? I tried putting the parameter files
on a 400K disk and using the external drive I have. This worked to a certain
extent: MacZap found all the files and folders on the disk. But when I tried
to recover those files, it flashed a message for about half a second and then
stopped. (The message said "Error during recovery". Why was there no delay
so normal humans could read it?) I finally gave up.
It can't be very hard to fix this problem. I don't even care if I have to
swap disks a zillion times, just as long as I can do this. What MacZap needs
is cleaning up.
-Christian
net address: wiedmann@aurora.arc.nasa.gov
UUCP: {ihnp4,ucbvax,nike,lll-crg}!ames!aurora!wiedmann
disclaimer: Any resemblance of this opinion to anybody else's is purely co-
incidental.sdy@ssc-vax.UUCP (Steven D. Yee -- Mr. Thrint) (06/11/88)
In article <856@eos.UUCP>, wiedmann@aurora.uucp (Christian Wiedmann) writes: > After seeing all these comments about MacZap, I've decided I need to put > in my two cents worth. > MacZap looks like a great program, but seems unfinished. > For example, why can't you recover a floppy with just one disk drive? Here's > what happened when I tried: .... I tried to fool it a couple of times (and I have two drives) but I also couldn't find a way to make it take and keep the bad disk -- Now that I have a hard disk I havn't needed it yet (knock on fiberous material). steve. -- Steven D. Yee >>> my employer does not share my opinions <<< uw-beaver!ssc-vax!ssc-bee!sdy >>> (that's because I'm always right! ;-) <<< There are ways of dealing with people like you.