cooper@odin.ucsd.edu (Ken Cooper) (06/02/88)
I have been criticized for auctioning SIMMs using electronic media. I'm not completely sure why, and would like to clarify my perspective on this issue. I apologize if I've crossed a USENET boundary, but I'm not sure what principle has been violated. I assume, since there is an established misc.forsale newsgroup, that the sale of personal items on the net is not taboo. Further, since I have only posted two articles relating to these SIMMs, the amount of net traffic is not at issue either. It is clear then that the use of auctioning is the source of the problem. What is it that people object to about auctions? For the seller, it has the advantage of allowing the market to set the price; the seller knows s/he won't be selling the product for less than it's worth. For the buyer, it prevents the "damn, I wish I'd checked the news two hours ago" syndrome. Under the terms I've set, for example, all buyers have a window of two weeks to see the offer, and determine what they are willing to pay. What then are the disadvantages? It appears a common misperception that auctioning will overinflate the price. This might be true for Van Gogh's Sunflowers, where there is only one source for the commodity. In the case of SIMMs, this is clearly false: there *are* other sources. Who would be foolish enough to offer me more than they would pay elsewhere? For me as a seller, what was the alternative to auctioning? Forgive me for acting in my own best interest, but I wanted the best price I could find (Wouldn't you?). Since I had no real sense for the value of these SIMMs, the only other choice I could see was to offer them at an overestimated price, and drop it in increments until they sold. This would have wasted more net bandwidth than auctioning by email, and would probably have generated more controversy as well. If you find my self interest distasteful and think I'm taking advantage of this SIMMs shortage, consider the underlying principles of capitalism that are at work here. If I hadn't expected to get a decent price for these SIMMs, I would never have offered them -- I rather enjoyed the extra memory headroom. This is a classic case of Adam Smith's invisible hand at work: as the price has risen, so has the supply. If it weren't for the greed of potential suppliers, there would be no supply. I would appreciate feedback on this subject. I appreciate USENET and the people who contribute to it, and the last thing I want to do is abuse its privileges. Nevertheless, I don't think one should accept rules without examining them first. If auctioning is overstepping the line, I'd like to know why. Ken Cooper ARPA: cooper%cs@ucsd.edu UUCP: ...!ucsd!sdcsvax!cooper COMPUSERVE: 71571,407
cswarren@gershwin.berkeley.edu (Warren Gish) (06/02/88)
In article <5000@sdcsvax.UCSD.EDU> cooper@odin.ucsd.edu (Ken Cooper) writes: >I have been criticized for auctioning SIMMs using electronic media. I'm not >completely sure why, and would like to clarify my perspective on this issue. >since I have only posted two articles relating to these SIMMs... Well, now you've posted three articles. There is also the related net traffic to consider. >net traffic is not at issue either. I think the net traffic and people's time are the major issues. Auctioning is not really feasible on the net. Are the bids legally binding? Is the auctioneer an independent party and accurately representing the high bid? From my experience reading this newsgroup and others, a posting like "Item_X for sale, $400 or best offer" would probably not create any furor. (Before anybody asks, sorry, I'm all out of Item_X :-) >Ken Cooper > >ARPA: cooper%cs@ucsd.edu >UUCP: ...!ucsd!sdcsvax!cooper >COMPUSERVE: 71571,407 Warren Gish College of Letters & Sciences 133B Barker Hall University of California Berkeley, CA 94720 (415) 643-9219 cswarren@violet.berkeley.edu cswarren@ucbviole.bitnet
smh@mhuxu.UUCP (S. M. Henning) (06/02/88)
In article <5000@sdcsvax.UCSD.EDU>, cooper@odin.ucsd.edu (Ken Cooper) writes: > I have been criticized for auctioning SIMMs using electronic media. I'm not > completely sure why. 1) The net is not to be used for personal gain. 2) Items on misc.forsale are there for the convenience of the seller and the buyer. 3) Placing an item on misc.forsale more than once only benefits the seller. 4) Placing an item forsale on another news group is rude. 5) Placing an item forsale more than once on a news group is very rude. 6) Conducting an auction on any group is extremely rude. P.S. Simms are readily available off the shelf from a number of dealers at market prices. For details look at the adds in Mac magazines or send me mail. **** Lang May Your Lum Reek **** Steve Henning, AT&T Bell Labs, Reading, PA UUCP: att!mhuxu!smh
rsvp@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (R. Scott V. Paterson) (06/04/88)
Posting of SIMMS for sale on comp.sys.mac is not innappropriate.
I read the net(only a very few newsgroups for lack of time) for my
personal gain in knowledge and oppurtunity. Reading misc.forsale
would be too time consuming when I wish to limit my reading material
to macintosh topics. I see no harm in one posting.
I do have a question. Could someone please e-mail me a summary or
description of Ultima for the mac?
Thanks in advance...
R. Scott V. Paterson 1990 Dartmouth College
Software & Hardware Development for the 'Sun' Project
10,000,000,000 B.C.
"Everyone likes a tan." rsvp@eleazar.dartmouth.edu
-God rsvp@dartcms1.bitnetatchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison) (06/09/88)
I too see nothing wrong with selling used or excess Macintosh equipment in the macintosh notes groups. I also don't see a problem with asking for bids and taking the highest bidder. Someone prior mentioned that most sites get net.forsale (or whatever it is called). That is not the point. The point is that some people (like me, for example) don't want to read net.forsale. It's just yet another newsgroup to wade through. And no, I can't use kill files, etc. I use 'notes', not 'rn' at this site and kill groups don't exist. Besides, the argument that kill files can be used can also be used as an argument to allow them in the Mac groups as those people who don't want to read about items for sale can simply put a "*for*sale*" (or equivalent) in their kill files and ignore them all together. Also, the amount of traffic on the Mac groups dedicated to people selling stuff hasn't been all that high (this discussion has taken more bandwidth). My opinion is that the selling on Mac groups is fine. -lee ---- Lee Atchison Hewlett Packard, Business Networks Division Cupertino, CA 95014 atchison%hpindda@hplabs.hp.com
walter@garth.UUCP (Walter Bays) (06/13/88)
In article <6500030@hpindda.HP.COM> atchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison) writes: >those people who don't want to read about items for sale can >simply put a "*for*sale*" (or equivalent) in their kill files and ignore >them all together. Yes, that's easy. What's difficult is putting a line in your for.sale kill file to ignore everything not related to the Macintosh. I think this line does it: /.[[&*#\@^#\@(.*(@[Mm]ac.&(#\@^^^\&#*$(#\).(+\+=~}[^\$%$^&*:-)/j -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ My opinions are my own. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear. E-Mail route: ...!pyramid!garth!walter (415) 852-2384 USPS: Intergraph APD, 2400 Geng Road, Palo Alto, California 94303 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------