dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David O'Rourke) (06/04/88)
I just installed System 6.0 on my Hard Drive. Looked good at first but
I think I've found a problem.
SmartCom II version 3.0a, VersaPro, and Red Ryder all hang when trying to
dial the phone. The system just hangs, no if's ands or buts. Is this my
problem, did I get a "corrupted" copy. Has anyone experienced similar problems?
Any comments, suggestions (Apple by chance?).
I removed all my init's, ect.. I stripped the System so that it was clean
as a whistle. I'm running on a 512Ke with a dove 2meg upgrade & an Apple
HD20.
BTW: I restored my old system and I'm using SmartCom II 3.0a right now to
send this under system 4.3 and Finder 6.0 and the SAME copy of
SmartCom II 3.0a that hung under 6.0. So I'm at a loss.
Please help I'd like to be running the new system, but....
Also my sound cdev only does only one sound, even though it lists four in
in the list box in the control panel. Do 128K ROM owners only get one sound
even though the Sound Manger is supposed to be in the System now!
Any and all help will be appreciated!!!
--
David M. O'Rourke
Disclaimer: I don't represent the school. All opinions are mine!spector@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU (David HM Spector) (06/05/88)
A bunch o'prorams are now "broken" under System 6.0. Among them: most Micrsoft
products & ACIUS's 4th Dimension. (*)This time it seems to be the developer's
fault. Most of the programs that break seem to violate Robot's Rules of Order
regarding Handles. I.e., they Manipulate the upper handle bits directly
or are doing silly things like using fake handles. I was using 6.0 for a while
'til I found 4D broken.. and I have to use it, so I wait the 3-4 weeks for
ACIUS to deliver a promised patch.
Microsoft products die because in their _infinite_ wisdom, Micrsoft hardwired
their products for 1Mb machines. A pretty hard thing to do on a 68000 which
has no segment registers and a linear address space,... no?
Apple seems to have gotten smart and decided not to keep kludging the system
to move Microsoft programs around in memory... if MicroSoft can't get their
act together and fix it in a timely fashion,... Oh, well. I'll know not to
buy any more MS products.
David
(*)
I don't mean to say that software that stops working under new system
software releases is _ever_ Apple's "fault", but usually when things break
its due to increased functionality in the OS that programs can't handle
(e.g., HFS), this time it seems to be Apple enforcing its own rules.
(software compatibility guidelines..)
This is probably a warm-up for what's gonna happen when 7.0 comes out.
Looks like time to read TechNote 117 again to make sure I didn't miss nuthin'!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David HM Spector New York University
Senior Systems Programmer Graduate School of Business
Arpa: SPECTOR@GBA.NYU.EDU Academic Computing Center
UUCP:...!{allegra,rocky,harvard}!cmcl2!spector 90 Trinity Place, Rm C-4
HamRadio: N2BCA MCIMail: DSpector New York, New York 10006
AppleLink: D1161 CompuServe: 71260,1410 (212) 285-6080
"What computer puts out work like this?" "Hire us and we'll tell you."
XYZZYGLORPspector@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU (David HM Spector) (06/05/88)
A bunch o'programs are now "broken" under System 6.0. Among them: most Micrsoft
products & ACIUS's 4th Dimension. (*)This time it seems to be the developer's
fault. Most of the programs that break seem to violate Robot's Rules of Order
regarding Handles. I.e., they manipulate the upper handle bits directly
or are doing silly things like using fake handles. I was using 6.0 for a while
'til I found 4D broken.. and I have to use it, so I'll wait the 3-4 weeks for
ACIUS to deliver a promised patch.
Microsoft products die because in their _infinite_ wisdom, Micrsoft hardwired
their products for 1Mb machines. A pretty hard thing to do on a 68000 which
has no segment registers and a linear address space,... no?
Apple seems to have gotten smart and decided not to keep kludging the system
to move Microsoft programs around in memory... if MicroSoft can't get their
act together and fix it in a timely fashion,... Oh, well. I'll know not to
buy any more MS products.
David
(*)
I don't mean to say that software that stops working under new system
software releases is _ever_ Apple's "fault", but usually when things break
its due to increased functionality in the OS that programs can't handle
(e.g., HFS), this time it seems to be Apple enforcing its own rules.
(software compatibility guidelines..)
This is probably a warm-up for what's gonna happen when 7.0 comes out.
Looks like time to read TechNote 117 again to make sure I didn't miss nuthin'!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David HM Spector New York University
Senior Systems Programmer Graduate School of Business
Arpa: SPECTOR@GBA.NYU.EDU Academic Computing Center
UUCP:...!{allegra,rocky,harvard}!cmcl2!spector 90 Trinity Place, Rm C-4
HamRadio: N2BCA MCIMail: DSpector New York, New York 10006
AppleLink: D1161 CompuServe: 71260,1410 (212) 285-6080
"What computer puts out work like this?" "Hire us and we'll tell you."
XYZZYGLORPric@arizona.edu (Ric Anderson) (06/05/88)
Instead of blindly flaming MicroSoft, how about some specifics? I'm running System 6.0 on a MAC II with 5Mb of memory, and MicroSoft Word 3.02 and Excel 1.06 both work just fine. There are problems with Excel versions below 1.06 on machines with over 1Mb, so maybe you just need the 1.06 upgrade. I won't say MicroSoft is perfect, but they return my phone calls and have had reasonable answers for the problems I have run in to.
snow@ndmath.UUCP (Dennis Snow) (06/06/88)
In article <3066@polyslo.UUCP>, dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David O'Rourke) writes: > > I just installed System 6.0 on my Hard Drive. Looked good at first but > I think I've found a problem. > > SmartCom II version 3.0a, VersaPro, and Red Ryder all hang when trying to > dial the phone. The system just hangs, no if's ands or buts. Is this my I found another critical problem with System 6.0 on my vanilla Mac + : Dark Castle won't run :-). It complains about the high memory configuration. Dennis Snow snow@ndmath.math.notredame.edu
spector@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU (David HM Spector) (06/06/88)
I didn't mean to be blindly flaming microsoft, but I have had more
problems with Microsoft products and Apple System upgrades. I have
version 3.01 of Word and 1.04 of Excel. I love both programs, I am just
annoyed that I have to keep getting upgrades because someone at Microsoft
_decided_ to hardwire the programs for 1Mb machines. Like I said, its hard
to do on a machine that knows nothing about segmenting and has a linear
address space. I have been a certified developer since 1984, and not ONE
of my programs (which are mostly verticle market widgets) has broken under an
Apple system software release. Reading Inside Macintosh makes this possible.
If I can do it, and I am one programmer, Microsoft, with its BILLIONS of dollars
and many many programmers certainly can...
...guess its time to hang out on Microsoft customer support line tomorrow
moring... (*Sigh*).
David
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David HM Spector New York University
Senior Systems Programmer Graduate School of Business
Arpa: SPECTOR@GBA.NYU.EDU Academic Computing Center
UUCP:...!{allegra,rocky,harvard}!cmcl2!spector 90 Trinity Place, Rm C-4
HamRadio: N2BCA MCIMail: DSpector New York, New York 10006
AppleLink: D1161 CompuServe: 71260,1410 (212) 285-6080
"What computer puts out work like this?" "Hire us and we'll tell you."
XYZZYGLORPsinger@endor.harvard.edu (Rich Siegel) (06/06/88)
In article <650023@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU> spector@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU (David HM Spector) writes: > >A bunch o'prorams are now "broken" under System 6.0. Among them: most Micrsoft >products & ACIUS's 4th Dimension. (*)This time it seems to be the developer's Um, My MS Word 3.02 died laughing as soon as it came to the words "most Microsoft Products". I've been using Word for a while under System 6.0 with no problems, on a 2.5MB Mac Plus. The System 6 I have is a release System, hot off the presses from Apple... --Rich Rich Siegel Quality Assurance Technician THINK Technologies Division, Symantec Corp. Internet: singer@endor.harvard.edu UUCP: ..harvard!endor!singer Phone: (617) 275-4800 x305
spector@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU (David HM Spector) (06/07/88)
Word version 3.02 works... Microsoft (to the best of my knowledge)
only sends this to people who explicitly ask for it. I have recieved no
info from them as to its availability. Now that I know about it (OK..I am
suitably chastised... mea culpa!), I will certainly call them.
Microsoft should learn from THINK and a few others about how to run a _real_
customer support organisation! (Hi Rich! :-)
(But we should all remember that there are a LOT of folks out there with
Word 3.0, 3.01, and (gasp!) 1.02... not every Mac user is as good about
getting upgrades as us net/developer/guru/whatever people... I know of users
who still use version 2.2 of MacWrite because they DIDN'T KNOW there were any
newer version, let alone that they were entitled to get them.)
David
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David HM Spector New York University
Senior Systems Programmer Graduate School of Business
Arpa: SPECTOR@GBA.NYU.EDU Academic Computing Center
UUCP:...!{allegra,rocky,harvard}!cmcl2!spector 90 Trinity Place, Rm C-4
HamRadio: N2BCA MCIMail: DSpector New York, New York 10006
AppleLink: D1161 CompuServe: 71260,1410 (212) 285-6080
"What computer puts out work like this?" "Hire us and we'll tell you."
XYZZYGLORPHeflich@sleazy.UUCP (Alan Heflich) (06/08/88)
In article <1151@ndmath.UUCP> snow@ndmath.UUCP (Dennis Snow) writes: >In article <3066@polyslo.UUCP>, dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David O'Rourke) writes: >> >> I just installed System 6.0 on my Hard Drive. Looked good at first but >> I think I've found a problem. >> >> SmartCom II version 3.0a, VersaPro, and Red Ryder all hang when trying to >> dial the phone. The system just hangs, no if's ands or buts. Is this my > >I found another critical problem with System 6.0 on my vanilla Mac + : >Dark Castle won't run :-). It complains about the high memory configuration. > >Dennis Snow snow@ndmath.math.notredame.edu Well I have Sys 6.0 on my hard drive. Red Ryder runs fine...of course I give it a partition (under Multifinder) of 750K so I can save lots of screens some- where between 75 and 100). I don't run Dark Castleeither but I would be careful if Mac Pluses are upgraded with anything other than standard SIMMs. The only problem I have with Sys 6.0 is with 4-D. ACIUS acknowleges the problem and promises to have a fix out soon. Alan Heflich Internet: Heflich @ Dockmaster.arpa Usenet: {backbone}!nud!sleazy!heflich
t-jacobs@utah-cs.UUCP (Tony Jacobs) (06/09/88)
A couple of us here seem to have problems with the Font DA Juggler+. The problems are different on both machines. On one it causes the Chooser to really go weird after calling it up the second time. The problem goes away if the Juggler is disabled. The Chooser is in the system file. The other machine has one DA that seems to work sometimes. Usually it will work the first time and then bomb the second time it is called up. Once it bombs it seems to corrupt the system in some fashion. Anyone else had problems like these? -- Tony Jacobs * Center for Engineering Design * U of U * t-jacobs@ced.utah.edu
moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) (06/09/88)
Well, after a lot of rumors about what will and will not run under 6.0, I
can say that the only thing I've had problems with are any of the Silicon
Beach games -- it looks like an INIT is stored in high memory, or something
similar. However, I've stored all of my cdevs and INITs outside of the
System Folder, and it still won't work. Ah, well, I was getting bored with
BDC anyway... Oh, and hierDA (the cdev which places sub-menus on the DA
menu) 0.9962 screws things up under MultiFinder with the new release.
As to other stuff, Versaterm (Rev. 3.2), MS Word (3.02), HyperCard, PT-109
FullWrite, PictureBase, ResEdit et. al. seem to work fine. Tested them out
without any INITs or cdevs to interfere, and they work fine under Finder and
MultiFinder (something happened with PictureBase under MultiFinder, but that
may be me...).
The only rumor I'd like to have confirmed/denied is MS Works 1.1. I've
heard from several people that Works, under MultiFinder, shows garbage
characters on the menu -- at least in the Database section -- with 6.0. Can
anyone check this out? I don't have Works...
"You can do more with a kind word and a gun than with
just a kind word. "
-- Al Capone
---
Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
<*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>spector@vx2.GBA.NYU.EDU (David HM Spector) (06/10/88)
It seems that System 6.0 is much more strict with regard to memory management,
i.e., handles. If you're using fake handles, or you don't check when things
are purged, etc., you're dead. In code I have been writing, when I tried
"fooling around" my programs blew up. If I act like a paranod maniac when it
comes to handles and making sure I follow TN117 things work OK...
DHMS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David HM Spector New York University
Senior Systems Programmer Graduate School of Business
Arpa: SPECTOR@GBA.NYU.EDU Academic Computing Center
UUCP:...!{allegra,rocky,harvard}!cmcl2!spector 90 Trinity Place, Rm C-4
HamRadio: N2BCA MCIMail: DSpector New York, New York 10006
AppleLink: D1161 CompuServe: 71260,1410 (212) 285-6080
"What computer puts out work like this?" "Hire us and we'll tell you."
XYZZYGLORPmoriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) (06/13/88)
In article <51150@ti-csl.CSNET> holland@mips.UUCP (Fred Hollander) writes: >I installed Dollars & Sense 4.1 at the same time as System 6 and was furious >at the frequency that it would crash. It didn't take long to pinpoint the >incompatibility with new system. When I want to use it, I have to reboot >with the old system. Does anyone know what has been changed that is causing >these problems? A friend had the same problems, and called the makers of Dollars & Sense. They admit 4.1 doesn't work under 6.0, and will be mailing out a new revision to registered owners poste haste. As of today, these are the programs I know are having problems under 6.0: 4th Dimension (don't know the revision, saw note in MACINTOSH TODAY) Dark Castle, Beyond Dark Castle, Apache Strike, Falcon Dollars and Sense 4.1 Several that I'm not sure WHAT is causing problems with: Microsoft Works 1.1 keeps getting some garbage characters under the Database menu bar. Someone said that they'd get a bomb after hitting the menu bar, but I can't say I've seen that. Something is peculiar with the control panel. Some things just aren't getting refreshed correctly -- the Edit menu under QuicKeys (the Edit menu actually inside the control panel box) doesn't appear until you obscure the QuicKeys menu with a dialogue box. Similarly, the Map Icon didn't appear under the control panel until I selected and de-selected it. Worst of all, I tried bringing QuicKeys up under 6.0 (Finder, not MultiFinder) while running PictureBase 1.2.2, and got half a control panel! It was if someone had re-designed the control panel to be 1/3 narrower than before. Trying to select QuickKeys caused a bomb, and I had to replace the control panel in the system file. Damn annoying, 'cause I needed to to use QuicKeys to do some dull work in PB. QuicKeys seems to work elsewhere, though. (This is QuicKeys version 1.1). More problems as they occur on this CBS station... Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo. -- Andy Finkel --- Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer INTERNET: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM Manual UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind... <*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (06/13/88)
>As of today, these are the programs I know are having problems under 6.0: > >4th Dimension (don't know the revision, saw note in MACINTOSH TODAY) Anything prior to 1.0.6. Registered users should have already gotten a letter from Acius warning them of this, and telling them how to upgrade. (The upgrade, by the way, is free. Send them your serial number, they send you the new release. I like the way Acius operates....) Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ Robert A. Heinlein: 1907-1988. He will never truly die as long as we read his words and speak his name. Rest in Peace.
Heflich@sleazy.UUCP (Alan Heflich) (06/14/88)
In article <5540@utah-cs.UUCP> t-jacobs@cs.utah.edu.UUCP (Tony Jacobs) writes: > >A couple of us here seem to have problems with the Font DA Juggler+. The >problems are different on both machines. On one it causes the Chooser to >really go weird after calling it up the second time. The problem goes away >if the Juggler is disabled. The Chooser is in the system file. > >The other machine has one DA that seems to work sometimes. Usually it will >work the first time and then bomb the second time it is called up. Once it >bombs it seems to corrupt the system in some fashion. > I have encounterred the FDJA+ problems with Sys 6.0 too. If I use FDJA+ to install a D/A I encounterred problems when openning the Control Panel. I got rid of Set Paths AND associated System Files and the problem went away. When I got the Microsoft Word Finder Thesaurus D/A I used FDJA+ to install it and the problem is back. The FDJA+ people can produce the problem. They suggested tat I increase my Heap sizze by 16K increments. That didn't help either (after 64K of increase). My Heap was at 131K anyway probably due to my Dataframe Driver (Diskmanger 3.26 I believe). The bottom line is that I too would like some help on this. Alan Heflich Usenet: {backbone}!nud!sleazy!heflich Internet: Heflich @ Dockmaster.ARPA My employer probably wants a disclaimer filled in ____________________.