merchant@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Peter Merchant) (06/10/88)
In article <4890@dasys1.UUCP>, Alexis Rosen writes: >Refer to my other articles about FoxBase+/Mac. relevant features: >1) FULL USAGE OF MAC USER INTERFACE. This is all-important. If it looks like > a PC, it might as well run on one. Well, yes. And no. FoxBase applications have various built-in commands to support dialog boxes, buttons, and that sort of thing. However, FoxBase's user interface is the same old dot prompt that Dbase is famous for. We have some Dbase folks around here who have seen Foxbase, though, and salivated quite effectively. Unfortunately, they are tied to the MS-DOS machines, but it almost had them switching. If you knew these people, you'd be impressed. I do. I was. It must be pretty good... --- "Livin' it up..." Peter Merchant (merchant@eleazar.UUCP) (merchant@eleazar.dartmouth.EDU)
alexis@dasys1.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) (06/13/88)
ine eater still exist?] Recently, merchant@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Peter Merchant) wrote: >In article <4890@dasys1.UUCP>, Alexis Rosen writes: >>Refer to my other articles about FoxBase+/Mac. relevant features: >>1) FULL USAGE OF MAC USER INTERFACE. This is all-important. If it looks like >> a PC, it might as well run on one. > >Well, yes. And no. > >FoxBase applications have various built-in commands to support dialog boxes, >buttons, and that sort of thing. However, FoxBase's user interface is the >same old dot prompt that Dbase is famous for. You are *dead wrong*. This could not be farther from the truth. Does everyone remember the debates that spring up every once in a while about whether a CLI (command line interface) should be available with the finder? Well, I wouldn't mind one, but I'd almost never use it. FoxBase epitomizes the 'right answer' to this question. Everything that you can do in dBase from the dot prompt can be done through their 'non-procedural interface'. Some of it is great, some of it is fantastic, and some of it is acceptable. But you never have to type in commands. If you think your fingers are faster than my mouse (:-) you're welcome to type commands into the 'Command Window'. Perhaps you were thinking of their programming environment? The language is the same as dBase's, with lots of enhancements, so program code (which is simply collections of dot-prompt commands w/control structures) looks some- what like what you'd see at the dot prompt- if you ignore little things like unlimited code windows, unlimited code and variable breakpoints, a trace window, an expression-evaluating window, and other little goodies like that. Also, their implementation of the interface is vastly more complete than 'commands to support dialog boxes, buttons, and that sort of thing.' It supports almost all of the interface. Things like multiple windows (of various types), menus, dialogs, multiple fonts, sizes, and styles, buttons, PICTs, etc., etc... (They are heading to support of arbitrary resources for all of these things, which means that you could use ResEdit, prototyper, or whatever you like best to do most of your design work.) >We have some Dbase folks around here who have seen Foxbase, though, and >salivated quite effectively. Unfortunately, they are tied to the MS-DOS >machines, but it almost had them switching. If you knew these people, you'd >be impressed. I do. I was. It must be pretty good... It's better than that... You can tell them that from me (lots of experience in PCs...) Do they know that FoxBase+/Mac on an UNaccelarated Mac SE will generally beat the pants off of dBase III+ on a 25 MHz '386? No kidding. Try it with a really big sort or index... I have NO affiliation with Fox Software. But their stuff is awesome anyway :-) /Alexis -- Alexis Rosen {allegra,philabs,cmcl2}!phri\ Writing from {bellcore,harpo,cmcl2}!cucard!dasys1!alexis The Big Electric Cat {portal,well,ihnp4,sun}!hoptoad/ Public UNIX if mail fails: ...cmcl2!cucard!cunixc!abr1
sysop@stech.UUCP (Jan Harrington) (06/14/88)
in article <sWf240y00Wg=QN1FJb@andrew.cmu.edu>, rh1m+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rudi Jay Halbright) says: > > > I'm looking for a powerful, programmable, relational Database system for the > > Mac. It should be comparable to Dbase III+ on the IBM PC in terms of > flexability and power. > Double Helix II and 4th Dimension look like good options, but FoxBase+/Mac is > tempting as it > offers compatibility with Dbase on the PC. The completed database will be > distributed (for free) to the > Psychology community so it is important that whatever we use can be used > without the database > system. > You've asked some major questions here. What you appear to be looking for is a "run-time" version. Foxbase+/Mac, Double Helix II, and 4th Dimension all have run-time versions (i.e., they allow applications to be run w/o the full DBMS). Any of these three are powerful enough to do virtually whatever you need. 4th Dimension and Foxbase+/Mac sell individual copies of their run-time version. To get the DH II run-time version, you become a DH II developer. You get unlimited run-time distribution rights for the first three months; then you pay a license fee. (The developer status also gets you other benefits.) If you need many, many copies of the run-time version, the DH II licensing may be more cost effective. If you need only a few copies, look at the other two, since they price theirs by the copy. As for other issues, DH II is object oriented (programming through icons, not a language); 4D is powerful but complex; Foxbase is dBase compatible. It all depends on what features are important. Each of these three is available in a demo version. (DH II demo comes with my $24.95 book - hint, hint, hint). My suggestion would be to get the demo versions and try them out before you decide. Jan Harrington, sysop Scholastech Telecommunications UUCP: ihnp4!husc6!amcad!stech!sysop or allegra!stech!sysop BITNET: JHARRY@BENTLEY ******************************************************************************** Miscellaneous profundity: "No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai ********************************************************************************
alexis@dasys1.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) (06/17/88)
In article <597@stech.UUCP> sysop@stech.UUCP (Jan Harrington) writes: >in article <sWf240y00Wg=QN1FJb@andrew.cmu.edu>, rh1m+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rudi Jay Halbright) says: >> >> I'm looking for a powerful, programmable, relational Database system for the >> Mac. It should be comparable to Dbase III+ on the IBM PC in terms of >> flexability and power. >> Double Helix II and 4th Dimension look like good options, but FoxBase+/Mac is >> tempting as it >> offers compatibility with Dbase on the PC. The completed database will be >> distributed (for free) to the >> Psychology community so it is important that whatever we use can be used >> without the database >> system. >> > >You've asked some major questions here. What you appear to be looking for is >a "run-time" version. Foxbase+/Mac, Double Helix II, and 4th Dimension all >have run-time versions (i.e., they allow applications to be run w/o the >full DBMS). Any of these three are powerful enough to do virtually whatever >you need. True. However, for $300 you can make unlimited copies of the FoxBase runtime for commercial distribution. All the others except Helix charge by the copy, so you will be paying a large amount to distribute the code you have already written. Also, you should know that in most areas, Helix and 4D don't have anything near the speed and power of dBase III+ (or its uglyness, either). Of course there are a few exceptions for each product. FoxBase, on the other hand, is faster and more powerful by far than dBase III+, and it does NOT sacrifice the Mac user interface (again, with some well-defined exceptions). >4th Dimension and Foxbase+/Mac sell individual copies of their run-time >version. To get the DH II run-time version, you become a DH II developer. >You get unlimited run-time distribution rights for the first three months; >then you pay a license fee. (The developer status also gets you other >benefits.) If you need many, many copies of the run-time version, the DH II >licensing may be more cost effective. If you need only a few copies, look >at the other two, since they price theirs by the copy. It's not more cost-effective than FoxBase's policy (one-time $300 charge). >As for other issues, DH II is object oriented (programming through icons, not >a language); 4D is powerful but complex; Foxbase is dBase compatible. It all Foxbase's dBase compatibility is probably its least-important benefit for most people... 4D looks much more powerful than it is, and it's slow as molasses. I would never use it for projects involving datasets of more than 1000 records, even on a Mac II. Helix is a really unique product with some exciting technology, but it's in the same speed range as 4D and it's NOT programmable. It can do some things that normally require programming, but it's generally not capable of handling situations that require procedural code. It's very good for database work that doesn't need programming and doesn't need high performance. If you need dBase III+ level programming, it's not even close. > [suggestion to buy the demo versions] Excellent idea. >Jan Harrington, sysop >Scholastech Telecommunications >UUCP: ihnp4!husc6!amcad!stech!sysop or allegra!stech!sysop >BITNET: JHARRY@BENTLEY -- Alexis Rosen {allegra,philabs,cmcl2}!phri\ Writing from {bellcore,harpo,cmcl2}!cucard!dasys1!alexis The Big Electric Cat {portal,well,ihnp4,sun}!hoptoad/ Public UNIX if mail fails: ...cmcl2!cucard!cunixc!abr1
sys_ms@bmc1.uu.se (06/17/88)
In article <sWf240y00Wg=QN1FJb@andrew.cmu.edu>, rh1m+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rudi Jay Halbright) writes: > > I'm looking for a powerful, programmable, relational Database system for the > > Mac. It should be comparable to Dbase III+ on the IBM PC in terms of > flexability and power. > Double Helix II and 4th Dimension look like good options, but FoxBase+/Mac is > tempting as it I have used 4 th Dimension for som projects, It is powerful on the Mac II, a bit slow on the SE. Just now I am waiting for somebody announcing a SQL database handler for the mac. If i can get network access to remote SQL databases, thenn my needs are fullfilled. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mats Sundvall +46/18174583 Biomedical Center mats@bmc1.BMC.UU.SE University of Uppsala, Sweden psi%24020010020620::MATS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
cy@ashtate (Cy Shuster) (06/20/88)
Just for the record, dBASE Mac RunTime is also available for a single $300 charge, allowing developers unlimited numbers of copies. --Cy-- UUCP: ...scgvaxd!ashtate!cy