atchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison) (06/15/88)
A question: How do I use Multifinder without the Finder? I want to use a finder substitute. Actually, what I would like is Multifinder to come up without any processes loaded, and let me use QuicKeys to start an application. Is this possible? Actually, what I would really like is to be able to bring the finder up anytime I want to, and remove it when I am done (like I did under switcher). I would use QuicKeys to start applications, including the Finder. Is THIS possible? You may think I'm dreaming, but this sure would make my 1MByte Mac a lot more useful..... -lee ---- Lee Atchison Hewlett Packard, Business Networks Division Cupertino, CA 95014 atchison%hpindda@hplabs.hp.com
blknowle@uokmax.UUCP (Bradford L Knowles) (06/16/88)
In article <6500032@hpindda.HP.COM> atchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison) writes: >A question: > >How do I use Multifinder without the Finder? I want to use a finder >substitute. > >Actually, what I would really like is to be able to bring the finder >up anytime I want to, and remove it when I am done (like I did under >switcher). I would use QuicKeys to start applications, including the >Finder. Is THIS possible? > > -lee >---- >Lee Atchison >Hewlett Packard, Business Networks Division >Cupertino, CA 95014 >atchison%hpindda@hplabs.hp.com Talk to Rich Siegel at ThINK technologies (producers of the long awaited LightSpeed C 3.0 compiler and other wondrousness). He mentioned in a post to comp.sys.mac.programmer (I think that's what it's called) that he had created a Finder substitute that automatically removed itself from memory under MultiFinder when you launched another application. This may not be EXACTLY what you wanted, but I think it will come close. -Brad Knowles UUCP: ...!ihnp4!occrsh!uokmax!blknowle ARPA: blknowle@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu SNAIL: 1013 Mobile Circle Norman, OK 73071-2522 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Philosophy of Boris Yeltsin: "If one wants to be unemployed, one will criticize ones' boss. If one wants to be sent to Siberia, one will criticize the wife of ones' boss." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Disclaimer: (The above opinions are my own. They have nothing to do with the Univeristy of Oklahoma nor intelligance of any sort. :-)
peter@aucs.UUCP (Peter Steele) (06/20/88)
> How do I use Multifinder without the Finder? I want to use a finder > substitute. > > [stuff deleted] > > Actually, what I would really like is to be able to bring the finder > up anytime I want to, and remove it when I am done (like I did under > switcher). I don't know how it happened, and I haven't tried to reproduce it, but the other day I was running Multifinder and I went to switch back to the Finder but it wasn't listed in the applications list under the Apple menu. I tried to exit the program, think that would bring me to the finder but instead it took me to another program I had loaded. In fact, I had to quit all loaded applications before the finder reappeared. Whether the finder had actually been removed from memory I don't know. It sure seemed like it though. -- Peter Steele, Microcomputer Applications Analyst Acadia University, Wolfville, NS, Canada B0P1X0 (902)542-2201x121 UUCP: {uunet|watmath|utai|garfield}dalcs!aucs!Peter BITNET: Peter@Acadia Internet: Peter%Acadia.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
earleh@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Earle R. Horton) (06/21/88)
In article <1123@aucs.UUCP> peter@aucs.UUCP (Peter Steele) writes: >> Actually, what I would really like is to be able to bring the finder >> up anytime I want to, and remove it when I am done (like I did under >> switcher). > >I don't know how it happened, and I haven't tried to reproduce it, but ... >Whether the finder had actually been removed from memory I don't know. It >sure seemed like it though. If you make yourself an FKEY containing two bytes: A9F4( ExitToShell), you can use this to exit any running application, whether MultiFinder is active or not. This applies equally well to the Finder. If you quit the Finder this way under MultiFinder, then when you finally quit your last remaining application, the Finder will execute its startup script, contained in "Finder Startup" in the system. If you quit the Finder this way without MultiFinder active, then you get a relaunch of the Finder (boring.) I use this when I have a lot of work to do using two applications and MultiFinder, and want to skip the DeskTop window when switching between them. This is not as good as being able to launch the Finder on demand, but is close enough for me. A word of caution is indicated here: When you call ExitToShell without the knowledge and consent of the running application, then said application does not get to do whatever cleanup it needs to do when it exits. With the Finder, this means that if you spend a lot of time rearranging your DeskTop, then blast it with an ExitToShell FKEY, your DeskTop changes will not get recorded on disk. It would be nice if the Finder could: a) Have a "Quit" menu item, like everybody else is required to have. b) Be able to "exec" an application under MultiFinder, thereby allowing the user full use of his memory when said memory is finite. (Like behavior under Switcher.) One could surmise that Peter's Finder ran into an error condition, and gave up the ghost. Usually under these conditions you get an alert from MultiFinder "The application has unexpectedly quit." but maybe he missed it. Earle R. Horton, Thayer School of Engineering, Hanover, NH I wouldn't mind dying -- it's that business of having to stay dead that scares the sh*t out of me. -- R. Geis
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (06/28/88)
In article <8964@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> earleh@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Earle R. Horton) writes: >A word of caution is indicated here: When you call ExitToShell >without the knowledge and consent of the running application, then >said application does not get to do whatever cleanup it needs to do >when it exits. With the Finder, this means that if you spend a lot of >time rearranging your DeskTop, then blast it with an ExitToShell FKEY, >your DeskTop changes will not get recorded on disk. But ExitToShell closes all the application's open resource files, and closing a resource file to which changes have been made automatically writes the changes to disk. At least, this is so if you don't bypass the Resource Manager and do your own resource file i/o, which some Apple software does. Have you actually seen this happen, or is it speculation? There used to be a way for an application to guarantee cleanup, but it was inconvenient - the IAZNotify low-memory routine pointer. You aren't supposed to use it any more. Few people did anyway, because you couldn't safely store a pointer into one of your code segments. Some applications (including, if memory serves, the Finder) guaranteed cleanup simply by patching their cleanup code into ExitToShell. So it's not completely true to say that using an ExitToShell FKEY will prevent the application from cleaning up. It's just a matter of how much work the application developer put into guaranteeing cleanup. >Earle R. Horton, Thayer School of Engineering, Hanover, NH -- Tim Maroney, Consultant, Eclectic Software, sun!hoptoad!tim "As I was walking among the fires of Hell, delighted with the enjoyments of Genius; which to Angels look like torment and insanity. I collected some of their Proverbs..." - Blake, "The Marriage of Heavern and Hell"
steele@Apple.COM (Oliver Steele) (06/28/88)
earleh@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Earle R. Horton) notes: ]A word of caution is indicated here: When you call ExitToShell ]without the knowledge and consent of the running application, then ]said application does not get to do whatever cleanup it needs to do ]when it exits. With the Finder, this means that if you spend a lot of ]time rearranging your DeskTop, then blast it with an ExitToShell FKEY, ]your DeskTop changes will not get recorded on disk. tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >But ExitToShell closes all the application's open resource files, and >closing a resource file to which changes have been made automatically writes >the changes to disk. On an HFS system, file and folder positions aren't stored in the Desktop file. And neither is information as to which folders are open. Or information that a file has been put in the Trash. And since the Finder buffers all this information (apparently until a volume is ejected, although I'm I'm sure it does some stuff more often. Trash is definitely emptied more often.), instead of writing it out to disk immediately, all changes of this nature are lost if the Finder is exited by some other means than under its own control. >At least, this is so if you don't bypass the Resource >Manager and do your own resource file i/o, which some Apple software does. What software does this? (Besides RezDet, of course.) Not a challenge; I just hadn't known this. >Have you actually seen this happen, or is it speculation? I've seen it. Try it. >Some applications >(including, if memory serves, the Finder) guaranteed cleanup simply by >patching their cleanup code into ExitToShell. All applications compiled with Lightspeed C do this, partly to remove some other patched traps and partly to give LSC's stdio library a chance to close files opened with fopen(), since UNIX programs typically don't bother closing files. >So it's not completely true to say that using an ExitToShell FKEY will >prevent the application from cleaning up. It's just a matter of how much >work the application developer put into guaranteeing cleanup. True, but I can count on the fingers of one foot the number of applications I use that clean up everything after a forced ExitToShell. >Tim Maroney, Consultant, Eclectic Software, sun!hoptoad!tim >"As I was walking among the fires of Hell, delighted with the enjoyments of > Genius; which to Angels look like torment and insanity. I collected some of > their Proverbs..." - Blake, "The Marriage of Heavern and Hell" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oliver Steele steele@apple.com Apple ATG Disclaimer: This isn't official. And Mr. Horton, to the best of my knowledge, isn't from Chapel Hill.