engst@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Adam C. Engst) (06/18/88)
Has anyone used third party keyboard with the Mac? I've heard of one
called the Keytronic 101 or something like that which is supposed to be
equivalent to the Apple Extended Keyboard and comes with a good macro
program to use all the extra keys. Are there any others which people
recommend? I'm simply not that fond of Apple's keyboards and I've used
almost all of them from the Apple II on.
Thanks,
Adam
The same offer stands with this request - email me enough and I'll post a
summary to the net. Thanks ....
--
Adam C. Engst engst@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu
pv9y@cornella.bitnet
"If it's not interactive, it's not fun."atchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison) (06/21/88)
I use the DataDesk 101 Keyboard (just got it about two weeks ago). It is REALLY nice. It doesn't have a control key, but I don't miss it. Otherwise it is really smooth to use and feels good. However, the macro program that comes with it isn't very good. It is a desk accessory (not an init) which you HAVE to run in order to use any of the extended parts of the keyboard (like, the arrow keys, for instance). You have to run this DA in every application that you launch (a real pain). I threw it out and I use Quickeys instead. Quickeys comes with a special INIT which activates the DataDesk 101 keyboard!!!! No DA necessary. Plus Quickeys by itself is a very nice program for using the function keys, etc. I would DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY, get Quickeys if you buy the DataDesk 101 keyboard. BTW, I use the non-ADB version of the DataDesk on a Mac+. I have no connection with whoever it is that make Quickeys or DataDesk.... -lee ---- Lee Atchison Hewlett Packard, Business Networks Division Cupertino, CA 95014 atchison%hpindda@hplabs.hp.com
sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) (06/28/88)
In article <6500034@hpindda.HP.COM> atchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison) writes: >I use the DataDesk 101 Keyboard (just got it about two weeks ago). It is >REALLY nice. It doesn't have a control key, but I don't miss it. >Otherwise it is really smooth to use and feels good. Just out of curiosity, is there an "extended" keyboard out there with the control key in the right place (i.e., next to the 'A')? Apple's is in a supremely stupid place, and it seems the DataDesk 101 doesn't have one at all. -- Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart, D
pollock@usfvax2.EDU (Wayne Pollock) (06/29/88)
In article <444@esquire.UUCP> sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) writes: >In article <6500034@hpindda.HP.COM> atchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison) writes: >>I use the DataDesk 101 Keyboard (just got it about two weeks ago). It is >>REALLY nice. It doesn't have a control key, but I don't miss it. >>... > >Just out of curiosity, is there an "extended" keyboard out there with >the control key in the right place (i.e., next to the 'A')? ... The DataDesk 101 (ADB version) is indeed a very nice keyboard, but you're wrong; it *does* have a control key, between the arrow cluster and the right hand shift key (you hit it with your right pinkie instead of your left). The keyboard comes with a macro utility, but I prefer Quickeys. Wayne Pollock (The MAD Scientist) pollock@usfvax2.usf.edu Usenet: ...!{ihnp4, cbatt}!codas!usfvax2!pollock GEnie: W.POLLOCK
hodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Josh Hodas) (06/29/88)
In article <444@esquire.UUCP> sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) writes: > >Just out of curiosity, is there an "extended" keyboard out there with >the control key in the right place (i.e., next to the 'A')? Apple's is >in a supremely stupid place, and it seems the DataDesk 101 doesn't have >one at all. > >-- > Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart, > Davis Polk & Wardwell | remember, we were way ahead of you." > {uunet,cmcl2}!esquire!sbb | - David Letterman Not that I really want to start a massive netwar on the human factors of key- boards, but why is 'next to the "A"' the right place for the control key? I suspect it is only because that is the way it was on the keyboard you learned on. Personally, It makes sense to me to cluster modifier keys together, and the only place you can do this is the way its done on the extended keyboard (also, I think its imperative that they appear on both sides, not just one.). I use my machine as a Terminal more than for anything else, and having used Quickeys to redefine my option key as a true Meta key (for emacs), I really prefer having the control (and squiggle) and option keys clustered together. Just my thoughts. Josh ------------------------- Josh Hodas (hodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu) 4223 Pine Street Philadelphia, PA 19104 (215) 222-7112 (home) (215) 898-9515 (school office)
straka@ihlpf.ATT.COM (Straka) (06/29/88)
In article <1095@usfvax2.EDU> pollock@usfvax2.usf.edu.UUCP (Wayne Pollock) writes: >In article <444@esquire.UUCP> sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) writes: >>In article <6500034@hpindda.HP.COM> atchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison) writes: >>>I use the DataDesk 101 Keyboard (just got it about two weeks ago). It is >>>REALLY nice. It doesn't have a control key, but I don't miss it. > >The DataDesk 101 (ADB version) is indeed a very nice keyboard, but you're >wrong; it *does* have a control key, between the arrow cluster and the >right hand shift key (you hit it with your right pinkie instead of your You may BOTH be right. The DataDesk 101 that I have does NOT have a control key. Even in the place you mentioned. I even tried it. It is labeled "option", and acts that way. The key to this apparent mystery: My keyboard is the non-ADB one, for a Mac Plus. -- Rich Straka ihnp4!ihlpf!straka Avoid BrainDamage: MSDOS - just say no!
sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) (06/29/88)
In article <1095@usfvax2.EDU> pollock@usfvax2.usf.edu.UUCP (Wayne Pollock) writes: >The DataDesk 101 (ADB version) is indeed a very nice keyboard, but you're >wrong; it *does* have a control key, between the arrow cluster and the >right hand shift key (you hit it with your right pinkie instead of your >left). The keyboard comes with a macro utility, but I prefer Quickeys. Thanks for the info, but this is truly a goofy place to put the control key. I have enough trouble switching back and forth between emacs and vi at work; let's not start moving keys around on top of that. So the question remains, is there an "extended" keyboard out there with all the keys in the right places? -- Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart, Davis Polk & Wardwell | remember, we were way ahead of you." {uunet,cmcl2}!esquire!sbb | - David Letterman
atchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison) (06/30/88)
>/ hpindda:comp.sys.mac / pollock@usfvax2.EDU (Wayne Pollock) / 11:42 am Jun 28, 1988 / >In article <444@esquire.UUCP> sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) writes: >>In article <6500034@hpindda.HP.COM> atchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison) writes: >>>I use the DataDesk 101 Keyboard (just got it about two weeks ago). It is >>>REALLY nice. It doesn't have a control key, but I don't miss it. >>>... >> >>Just out of curiosity, is there an "extended" keyboard out there with >>the control key in the right place (i.e., next to the 'A')? ... > >The DataDesk 101 (ADB version) is indeed a very nice keyboard, but you're >wrong; it *does* have a control key, between the arrow cluster and the >right hand shift key (you hit it with your right pinkie instead of your >left). The keyboard comes with a macro utility, but I prefer Quickeys. > > >Wayne Pollock (The MAD Scientist) pollock@usfvax2.usf.edu >Usenet: ...!{ihnp4, cbatt}!codas!usfvax2!pollock >GEnie: W.POLLOCK >---------- The ADB version of the DataDesk 101 has a control key, the non-ADB version doesn't. I'm using the non-ADB version...... -lee ---- Lee Atchison Hewlett Packard, Business Networks Division Cupertino, CA 95014 atchison%hpindda@hplabs.hp.com
sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) (06/30/88)
In article <5223@super.upenn.edu> hodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu.UUCP (Josh Hodas) writes: >Not that I really want to start a massive netwar on the human factors of key- >boards, but why is 'next to the "A"' the right place for the control key? I >suspect it is only because that is the way it was on the keyboard you learned >on. This is true, although the real reason is that I have 2 other keyboards at work, and that's where the control key is on both of them. Like I said, I have enough trouble going between emacs and vi occasionally; let's not compound the problem. -- Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart, Davis Polk & Wardwell | remember, we were way ahead of you." {uunet,cmcl2}!esquire!sbb | - David Letterman
g-golub@rocky.cs.wisc.edu.CS.WISC.EDU (Joshua Golub) (07/02/88)
In article <449@esquire.UUCP> sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) writes: >In article <5223@super.upenn.edu> hodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu.UUCP (Josh Hodas) writes: >>Not that I really want to start a massive netwar on the human factors of key- >>boards, but why is 'next to the "A"' the right place for the control key? I >>suspect it is only because that is the way it was on the keyboard you learned >>on. > >This is true, although the real reason is that I have 2 other keyboards at >work, and that's where the control key is on both of them. Like I said, I >have enough trouble going between emacs and vi occasionally; let's not >compound the problem. And a small voice from the back said. . . Actually, I find the Apple extended keyboard layout extremely friendly, and very, VERY compatible with the other keyboard I use regularly, which is found on one of that nameless blue corps model-80s. The key layout is EXACTLY the same, with the exception that the Apple keyboard has an OPTION key. But then, there's a reason the two are so similar, isn't there. Now if only the functiounality of the blue keyboard could be brought into line with this one. . . Disclaimers and signatures are for frequent posters -- I don't want to be remembered.
phssra@emory.uucp (Scott R. Anderson) (07/02/88)
In article <5223@super.upenn.edu> hodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu.UUCP (Josh Hodas) writes: >In article <444@esquire.UUCP> sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) writes: >> >>Just out of curiosity, is there an "extended" keyboard out there with >>the control key in the right place (i.e., next to the 'A')? Apple's is >>in a supremely stupid place, and it seems the DataDesk 101 doesn't have >>one at all. > >Not that I really want to start a massive netwar on the human factors of key- >boards, but why is 'next to the "A"' the right place for the control key? I >suspect it is only because that is the way it was on the keyboard you learned >on. Granted, where the "right" place is ultimately depends on the user, but "next to the 'A'" is the position used on most of the popular terminals around, e.g. vt100 and clones. This is what I have been using for years, and this is one of the reasons I got the Apple standard keyboard instead of the extended. >Personally, It makes sense to me to cluster modifier keys together, >and the only place you can do this is the way its done on the extended keyboard I would point out that the shift key is also a modifier key, so on the standard keyboard, they *are* clustered together: control, shift, option, down the left side (now if they would just get rid of the caps-lock and make the option key double long...). >(also, I think its imperative that they appear on both sides, not just one.). I agree, this is one advantage of the extended keyboard. * Scott Robert Anderson * ** gatech!emoryu1!phssra * * * ** phssra@emoryu1.{bitnet,csnet} * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *